Poll: KSP2 buying decisions

[stephensmat]

My criteria aren't on the list:

Buy it on Linux? Release Day. (Assuming I can match the specs)

Buy it on PS5? When I know for sure it has full Keyboard and Mouse Support.

[Kapitalizing Every Word]

19 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

My preorder/purchase actions will heavily depend on how they regionalize pricing. If they go the AAA route thinking USD 60 = ARS 6000, that's a never buy, because not even on sale will it be worth it. Currency equivalence is not regionalization, and I don't support that practice out of principle

 

8 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

Thankfully, Steam is based and holds a complete record of my purchases:

Back when I purchased the game for myself, 1 USD = 5.15 ARS back then, so ARS 72 for the game, when monthly wage was 3300 ARS (these numbers are about to go crazy, welcome to inflation)

I then purchased the first DLC 5 years later, ARS 180 at 1 USD = 38 ARS (would be USD 4.7 converted back). Monthly average wage back then was 11300 ARS 

Also at the same time gifted the base game to a friend, notice how the now converted and regionalized price on a sale was less than the DLC, and about a third the price of my original purchase. 

Finally, BG released 2019, when 1 USD = 44.7 ARS, so converted would be 6 USD. Monthly wage at this point would be 12500 ARS.

Now, if we assume KSP2 releases at a non regionalized 60 USD, I'd be paying 9900 (conversion + taxes), at a final price of 1 USD = 190 ARS, with a monthly wage of 33000 ARS. That's a huge jump, directly into non-affordability. Also yes, this retrospective depicts a 100% inflation in 6 years if you look at wages, but %3700 if you look at the Dollar.

Whoa didn't expect to see (or read?) another argentinian. 

[Vl3d]

What does Argentina mean?

[Gargamel]

9 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

What does Argentina mean?

It's a country.

[intelliCom]

My experience with Cyberpunk 2077 has told me to definitely hold off until people have a proper idea for if it's good or bad. If it's bad, not wasting my money. If it's good, then I buy it.

I swear to god if they try to have some kind of pre-order bonus BS, I'll have a more difficult time deciding between preorder and buying later. However, if the pre-order bonus is just DLC that could be purchasable later, then it won't influence my decision to hold back.

Edited April 28, 2022 by intelliCom

[runboy398]

After playing KSP since 2012, there's going to have to be a very significant improvement in KSP2 over KSP. For example, if KSP2 has VR capability by default, I am buying it without a second thought, as KSP is likely the game with one of the greatest VR experiences. But unless there's some massive increase in capability like that, considering that mods and addons that make KSP playable for me right now (in VR) are all in KSP1, I'll probably hold off until those mods (or their equivalent) is present in KSP2 through updates prior to buying.

[Vl3d]

1 hour ago, Gargamel said:

It's a country.

I know it is, but think about the origin of the name and you'll realize how sad and unfair the situation is. My apologies for the off-topic, it's related to the inflation.

[PDCWolf]

1 hour ago, Kapitalizing Every Word said:

Whoa didn't expect to see (or read?) another argentinian. 

There used to be a couple of Argies chatting around in the Spanish subforum. Plus Ezequiel (Ayarza, from Squad) is also Argentinian. 

1 hour ago, Vl3d said:

What does Argentina mean?

Argentum = Silver, Argentina = Made out of silver.

1 hour ago, intelliCom said:

My experience with Cyberpunk 2077[...]

Oof, I purchased on release, it's been like 2 years and 100+ hours later and I still regret my purchase.

[Pthigrivi]

A few of my friends and my thesis advisor are from Argentina. It's a beautiful country. The inflation situation is crazypants there though, and somehow practically always has been? Rather than derail the conversation if folks are interested there's a breakdown of the history here. 
 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Pthigrivi

[saxappeal89129]

On 4/27/2022 at 4:45 AM, Master39 said:

I'm not one to make a "dollar per hour" argument, but after almost a decade playing KSP1 for over 2000 hours I think the selling price it's not that relevant, even at 100$ it would be worth it.

On the idea of waiting for reviews I have a core problem, whom?

• KSP Youtubers have a conflict of interest, they mostly all failed when they tried to diversify, their existence as channel depend on KSP success, and that will transfer over for KSP2.
• Gaming journalist and reviewers, even the best, are not equipped to deal with a game like KSP, their review is either going to be them misunderstanding the game or them giving it a 10 just because it's an educational game, no middle ground.

My plan is just to cut the middlemen, go into radio silence as soon as the game drops and use the 2 hours refund window on Steam to do my personal review of the game, I'm not scared of being an early adopter for KSP2, as I already was for most of my play time on KSP1.

You just DID make a dollar per hour argument. It's this type of thinking that drove the hardware market to extremes over the last few years, and enabled scalpers to dictate pricing, which larger corporations (Nvidia investors et al) in turn adopted. As a matter of fact, this was even discussed in their Board Room, and will be driving the prices of the 4000 series cards ("Well, people are willing to pay $1,500 so lets charge that). For reference the RTX 2080 was $699 (GTX 1080 was $599 at launch). So we just about doubled in price this last generation... when the original plan was for the 2nd gen RTX cards to be a "value" to gamers. This also happened in the car market, whereby some stealerships were caught with 50-100% markup and vehicles. It's a false market where the avg person suffers...

So yeah... no way I'd pay $100.00 for an entry fee, based upon principle alone.  I don't even think $59.00 is all that appropriate when just a few years ago games were $49.00; not to mention KSP2 is 'NOT' a AAA title, or a larger developer with more mouths to feed.  Lastly, why wouldn't you make a developer "work" for your money? I'm guessing you're also pro micro-transactions as well... am I right?

  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, saxappeal89129 said:

You just DID make a dollar per hour argument.

Nope, such an argument would be pointless since most 60$ games don't last for a literal decade of playing, if we were to make a "dollar per our" argument games like KSP would be out of scale.

 

1 hour ago, saxappeal89129 said:

It's this type of thinking that drove the hardware market to extremes over the last few years, and enabled scalpers to dictate pricing, which larger corporations (Nvidia investors et al) in turn adopted. As a matter of fact, this was even discussed in their Board Room, and will be driving the prices of the 4000 series cards ("Well, people are willing to pay $1,500 so lets charge that). For reference the RTX 2080 was $699 (GTX 1080 was $599 at launch). So we just about doubled in price this last generation... when the original plan was for the 2nd gen RTX cards to be a "value" to gamers. This also happened in the car market, whereby some stealerships were caught with 50-100% markup and vehicles. It's a false market where the avg person suffers...

Yes, the good old "let's arbitrarily connect something I put in your mouth with the worst thing I can think off". 

Just to clarify the point, I'm not scalping, I've not bought from scalpers, I'm still on my old 1070, and I don't plan to sell my Q1 Steamdeck even if I could get 2 or 3 times what I paid for it.

 

 

1 hour ago, saxappeal89129 said:

So yeah... no way I'd pay $100.00 for an entry fee, based upon principle alone. 

I did not suggest such a price, but it's fun you called it "entry fee" and not "product price", it doesn't quite sound right, doesn't it? Can't call it a product price if you're expecting years of additional content and support with it, right?

100$ for KSP2 would be quite outrageous but, at the end of the day, it would still be worth it for the amount of entertainment I plan to get out of that game, KSP1 outlived 2 PCs I used to play it, quite the feat for 15€.

 

1 hour ago, saxappeal89129 said:

I'm guessing you're also pro micro-transactions as well... am I right?

Without context is like asking me if i'm pro screwdrivers.

Microtransactions in KSP2? Hell no. Instant refund.

But I've seen people calling big expansions "microtransactions" and others asking for no monetization on F2P or cheap 5 or 6 years old live-service games.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Master39

[Pthigrivi]

Maybe we could all admit that pricepoint optimization is not something any of us are experts on?

[TheOrbitalMechanic]

56 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said:

Maybe we could all admit that pricepoint optimization is not something any of us are experts on?

No, that can't be right. I thought everyone on the internet was an expert on everything!

 

A guy on the internet told me so.

[Vl3d]

So do you guys think the $60 price point sets some very high (AAA) feature and quality expectations for KSP2?

What other $60 game would you like to compare it to?

[shdwlrd]

10 hours ago, Vl3d said:

So do you guys think the $60 price point sets some very high (AAA) feature and quality expectations for KSP2?

What other $60 game would you like to compare it to?

T2 is basing the price on hours of play, not features. The comparison to RDR, GTA, Fallout series, Mass Effect, Halo, Cities Skylines, The Sims, etc. has nothing to do with the type of play, but the time in hours players usually spend in the game.

Now for a $60 game, I would expect a decently polished game, AAA or not. Intercept is exceeding my expectations with new and extended features. But only when the game is released can I determine if I will spend the money or not.

[mcwaffles2003]

I may pre-order only so I can preload, will wait for preload to be available though.

[PDCWolf]

On 4/28/2022 at 8:20 PM, Pthigrivi said:

Maybe we could all admit that pricepoint optimization is not something any of us are experts on?

Price optimization is not something consumers can tackle, simply because of bias. $100 might be "worth" if you balance against playing the game for 10 years, but you've effectively alienated 90% of possible customers, as $100 is only a standard for collectors editions and other, bigger deals. Initial price is a barrier of entry, the very first one, no matter what pretty name people might want to put on it.

I bought FS2020's Premium Deluxe because I know it's a product that won't have competition or a sequel for at least a decade, and it's going to give me thousands of hours, until a foreseeable alternative comes out, plus it carries an entire second market of payware/freeware addonds that will follow in its steps and abandon previous products. 

On the other hand, KSP2 right now looks mostly like a graphical update with some mods integrated into it, right after being bought out by a AAA publisher that gladly participated in poaching and cutthroat politics to sink the original studio in charge of the sequel. Further on, it now has a sea of competitors at indie price ranges that whilst not exactly filling the very specific niche, come damn close. Lastly, the original game was $15, bumped to $40 years down the line when the "release" came. Whilst their greed might be high enough for $60+, purchasing intent for this price range* [i believe] is very low outside of easily recognizable loyalists.

*edit, this part is important.

Edited April 30, 2022 by PDCWolf

[Leopard]

Q1: my reasoning is not on the list, I will decide to buy when I know what spec machine is needed to firstly run it, and then to run it well, plus also when I see if there is a suitable mod interface that will allow external controllers

Q2: to be honest price isn't a huge issue, $60 with no need to download extra stuff at extra cost in order to actually play it I can live with - it its going to be stuffed with priced DLC the base game essentially needs to be free though

Q3: not pre-ordering, unlikely to buy until its been out a while and has proven itself to be playable and stable, I bought the console version and still have the scars

[TeddyBearBonfire]

As ever, I'll likely buy months after release. I always wait to see what the general playerbase thinks of a game, and I've never really understood the issue people have waiting years for a game and not being able to wait a little longer and know what they're getting for their money. Average player reviews interest me much more readily than those of dedicated gaming sites or youtubers (though the latter are of some interest at least). Conceptually I'm pretty confident I'll like the game—how far wrong could you go with the basis of what KSP is? So mostly it'll be a case of seeing just how well-taped-together the game is—performance issues, bug prominence, and such. It usually doesn't take long after a game's release to hear about any major unexpected missteps as well.

[SciMan]

On 4/27/2022 at 12:39 PM, PDCWolf said:

Those are all people that have KSP as a secondary theme of their channel, not their primary. Scott, shadowzone, etc never made content where they played KSP recreationally, it's always related to a concept they want to talk about. Matt has transitioned into news but the hit to views is clear, with real life videos having about half the views as his Kerbal videos. Stratzenblitz and VAOS, for example, are people that only make KSP content. Whilst I don't think either of them will have a conflict of interest, they are to lose a lot if they're forced to diversify.

My preorder/purchase actions will heavily depend on how they regionalize pricing. If they go the AAA route thinking USD 60 = ARS 6000, that's a never buy, because not even on sale will it be worth it. Currency equivalence is not regionalization, and I don't support that practice out of principle.

Small issue there. That particular facet of releasing the game might be in Steam's hands, rather than PD or Intercept or Take-Two Interactive.
And if that's the case, you just let somebody who has only monetary gain to consider, make a crucial decision about if and when you obtain the game.

Not saying that it's going to be worth it if it's ARS 6000, just saying that "maybe the developers didn't want to do that but they didn't get a say in the decision".

EDIT:
As for myself, the only thing stopping me from preordering the game at $60 USD as soon as I learn about it, is if that doesn't get me the ability to play the game sooner.
That's it. That's literally all they need to do to make me preorder it. Well, and have a functioning game right out of the box, of course. If that's not the case, I'll refund it as soon as I figure that out, but that shouldn't take me 2 hours to figure out.
And considering that I've been playing KSP since 0.13.3, my bar for "minimum viable product" is quite astonishingly low, to the point that I think it's nearly impossible for them to miss it (KSP 0.13.3 is the update where they added Minmus, and at that point the only places you could go were LKO, the Mun, and Minmus, because the rest of the planets weren't even in the game yet, and the Kracken was MUCH more prevalent back then, and the parts looked nothing like what we see today, and and and...).

I mean, my definition of "minimum viable product" that I personally won't refund is "functional game, with the game mechanics fleshed out even if the art assets are in a placeholder state, and if the game mechanics change significantly from release to when most people would consider the game to be "complete" then so be it".
Kinda hard to not meet that goal, wouldn't you think?

I'm in this for the long haul, KSP 2 is a game I hope to be playing in 10 years or more from now, practically regardless of the state it releases in.

Edited May 2, 2022 by SciMan

[PDCWolf]

15 minutes ago, SciMan said:

Small issue there. That particular facet of releasing the game might be in Steam's hands

It is not. Steam does suggest prices, but the dev has the last word on regional price. In fact, you can not even accept steam's suggestion and leave a game not available on a region because you didn't set a price in a certain currency.

Crusader Kings 3 = 50 USD or 540 ARS.

M&B2 Bannerlord = 50 USD or 2499 ARS.

F1 22 = 60 USD or 6399 ARS.

Developers have absolute control of the price of their game in any individual currency.

[xjames]

hopefully it'll be available for the mac. otherwise I'll make do with the ps5

[Ben J. Kerman]

On 4/28/2022 at 8:05 AM, Kapitalizing Every Word said:

Whoa didn't expect to see (or read?) another argentinian. 

Sorry to be off topic, but how many European vs. American trucks do you see on the roads there? I'll ask that through a PM or something later. Me gustan camiones.

To contribute something to this thread: I think $60 is a little much, but then when I consider how much more there is going to be in KSP2 than in KSP, it makes more sense. I probably won't buy KSP2 for a while after it is released because I've barely utilized all the possibilities of what I can do in KSP1 (I've only been to the Mun a couple times, and I think I've only gone there one or two times without using the Set Orbit or Set Position tools in the cheat/debug menu ), but I believe I most likely will buy it at some point. It might be nice if there was a 7 or 14 day (or something) free trial of the game so people could see if they really want to spend the $60.

On 4/29/2022 at 12:29 PM, shdwlrd said:

T2 is basing the price on hours of play, not features.

Oh.

[cantab]

I'll wait for reviews. I'm not too worried about the core gameplay, but I need to see a game that's free of serious bugs and will run acceptably on my PC. I'd also prefer it to run well on Linux, whether that's using Proton or a native port.

If the game's good it's worth AAA pricing, though I might begrudge it a little. If the game's no good it's not worth any price.

[Dman979]

4 hours ago, cantab said:

I need to see a game that's free of serious bugs

According to Danny2462, they're not bugs, they're features.