Offshore mining bases

[KerikBalm]

So I wanted to make  a functional base out at sea.

At the moment, bases have 2 purposes:  science production from labs, and production of fuel.

Also at the moment, all bodies have no ore in their ocean biomes - easily modded (plus the shores bio of Kerbin has ore, including the underwater parts).

So, as far as undersea bases, its not convenient to produce fuel there, given the difficulty achieving negative buoyancy (both keeping the base down, and having a sub get down there to take up some fuel.

So, I figured that I would try to place a stamp-o-tron underwater, that way I could attach mining machinery to the bottom, and it won't matter how ore levels fluctuate after, and I may also be able to link it to a base on the surface.

Here's my diving+ming bell:

Didn't work:

It seems that you can't place these things under water... nuts...

ThenI tried a floating base, with mining equipment hanging down to touch the surface, this actually works, but waves (is this stock, or a scatterer ocean thing?) make the base jump around alot, and it wasn't doing good things for the kerbals walking around the deck.

So... I cheated by text editing. First I placed a stamp o tron with a docking port, and then text edited its height and location in the ocean. Then I used the cheat menu to put my mining base at what should have been right above it. Then I used the offset tool and an engineer in construction mod to join them:

That worked...

Look at that ore production, now boats, subs, seaplanes, etc can come refuel without leaving the water...

A kerbal enjoying the view and walking around on the base.

Now the next thing I need to do is to link up many segments to make a really really long section extending to the seafloor, and figure out how to get something like this in orbit, and then to laythe/other bodies with oceans so that I can have these farther from shore.

This isn't quite the isolated outpost in the middle of the ocean that I was going for, its not ready for Laythe:

 

[KerikBalm]

So now questions for discussion

1) Does anyone else want to show their ocean bases?

2) Is there any way to make a floating base with hanging drills stable, are waves a stock thing, or scatterer/Kopernicus thing (stock I think, I don't think Scatterer does anything to the oceans except visually - I used kopernicus to rescale the system to 6.25x, but I don't think that would cause wave/jumping effects in the ocean)

3) Where are good locations for this sort of base? Does anyone have a resource for looking at seafloor depths? I'd like to see some proposed locations where the sea floor isn't too far down, but the nearest land is still far away.  (Yes, any thing other than a shores biome won't have ore without modding, I am willing to mod that)

4) Can anyone confirm that stamp-o-trons can't be placed by a kerbal underwater? It would be great if there was actually some trick that would allow them to be placed under water without text editing.

5) Does anyone have any good ideas for how one can actually build/launch and transport a base like this, and get it down to the surface of Laythe/Eve (I also have in mine my modded Duna with some seas, and my "Rald" planet based on Mars, which has a large northern sea).

I was thinking of making several sections of the pipe/tube/hanging bits, and dcking them together in orbit, then docking them to the floating base...

But getting the height right for the place where the base lands is going to be very difficult. Also, moving the base via docked boats at the surface is... not effective as the CoM is way down below, and resistance is very high.

I'm thinking I will have to cheat this... get the base somewhere in the ocean, then cheat the base to the right part of the ocean where the ocean depth matches the depth of the hanging bits... I'm going to have to cheat the stamp-o-tron in position anyway...

Any ideas for how this could be made adjustable through the use of engineer construction?

[Hotel26]

Something like this could work well.  (Code-name: Deep (imaginative, yeah!))

There is a certain number (2) of magic components in it to defeat the KSP buoyancy issues -- but well inline with the realistic mass of sea water and metal, and the consideration of plenty of electrical power to pump tanks.

No mods but it has keys to flood and blow tanks.  Q.E.D.

The next task will be to see what I need to do to get it into a Mk3 cargo bay; but failing that, a fairing will do the trick.

I will report back here when I have anything more to report.

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Hotel26

[Nazalassa]

On 4/27/2022 at 5:31 PM, KerikBalm said:

Can anyone confirm that stamp-o-trons can't be placed by a kerbal underwater? It would be great if there was actually some trick that would allow them to be placed under water without text editing.

Hypothesis: place the ground anchor mid-water (as it is on the second picture), then use a piston to push it against the seafloor. May also works for cliffs, but it has yet to be tested.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Nazalassa

[Hotel26]

So this worked quite well:

   

227 m/s @ 3.5km with a range over 1,000 km.  Easy to fly and to land, so it can make a multi-leg journey to its final destination.

I think two Wheesleys would work better -- and since it is likely never going to fly very high -- dialing the wing incidence back from 5 degrees should make it cruise faster & further.

                                                                       

Now, for the magic sauce:

Spoiler

• a craft-file edit to add 10,000 MP Resource to the fuel tank of the dive module
• a buried (clipped) Puff MP engine with independentThrottlePercentage = -3000, effectively producing MP when flooding tanks
• 4 drain valves for MP with drainRate = 1%, for blowing tanks

Will give credit to @swjr-swis for this idea, because he showed the technique to me when we were experimenting with submersibles.

 

[Hotel26]

So, this is Deep.

   

Spoiler

I know.  You are thinking, "what's the use case?".  Clearly, it can refuel and support other, mobile underwater explorers.  But I could also imagine it fueling submersible tankers that descend, dock, fill with fuel and then resurface to provide a nav point for ocean-going ships to dock to refuel en route.

Fin.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Hotel26

[swjr-swis]

On 8/22/2023 at 11:47 AM, Hotel26 said:

The next task will be to see what I need to do to get it into a Mk3 cargo bay; but failing that, a fairing will do the trick.

23 hours ago, Hotel26 said:

since it is likely never going to fly very high

To quote Denethor, son of Echthelion: I do not think we should so lightly abandon the other premises. Premises that our (SWiS) brothers long held intact.

 

So... this is Deep-R.

Why break-a-part if we can have it return to base after delivery?

Plus deliver at mach 4.1 @ 20km. Drop payload from 20km at mach 4.1. Or land softly in water and let it slide out. And then return to base.

 

As John F. Kerman so eloquently said: We choose to go to the Deep in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because sleep in this heat is hard, and well, since we were awake anyway... oh never mind. We just did.

[Hotel26]

News of Deep-R has left my SPH design team quite crestfallen, I have to say.

I have never seen so many of my engineers quite so distressingly crestfallen.  Very, very crestfallen.

As Chief of Engineering & Design, I had to give them a pep talk.  Here's how it went.

Spoiler

Ahem.  [Can you hear me in the back there?]  Ahem!

Now, folks, while it is true that we have never yet invested effort in our Break-A-Part^[tm] technology initiative and enjoyed even the slightest return on the effort; and I know you are disheartened...  (and/or crestfallen)

...whenever we build some airplane, like our Bett, if you recall -- someone [and you might surmise whom I mean] always builds something "Bett-R" [flying quotes].

And it is true that Deep-R goes further underwater than our Deep and generally outclasses our puny effort in every humiliating way.

But I say to you now: is this not then the time for us to pull out all the stops!!  Flood the tanks, kerbals; and by all means, add moah bloody tanks, too!!

We will simply respond with Deep-S!  Ha haaa [triumphant].

[...cat calls...]

Once we have unveiled Deep-S, it will be clear -- from nomenclature alone -- that we have produced the world's best sub!

Of course, disheartened as they were, they responded  [with several heaped soupçonnes of fiery-spiced sarcasm]: "OK then, Chief: how??  We have no more ideas!"

Simple, I said; if necessary we will just add a couple more mickey-mouse chutes, beef up the brakes, monkey with the spring settings, fix the anti-roll flaps, sling a slew of marketing epithets and, of course! -- the piece of resistance -- change the name!!

Did I tell you it will be called Deep-S?  [most proudly]

"Oooh, ugh", they groaned.  [Here we go again.]

No, wait!!  There can be no pesky rejoinder to Deep-S!  Nothing can possibly go farther underwater than Deep-S.

And I can prove that fact to you all via rigorous alphabetical induction^[tm]!!

I began to rap (head bobbing side-to-side):

Heep-T Deep-T dove too far^[tm]...
Heep-T Deep-T Broke-A-Part^[tm],
All the Navy's subs and men,
couldn't raise Deep-T up again.

Last thing I saw (before Security evacuated me) was an egg hurled in my direction by someone near the back; and then the meeting erupted in a security code-86: "projectile pandemonium".

(Which is pretty much par for dismayed (and crestfallen!) rocket  scientists, in my experience.)

Spoiler

Muttering overheard as the crowd dispersed:

"He's finally gone completely around the bend, hasn't he".
"Yeah, stark raving.  And if you want my opinion, I think '-R' just means 'reusable'!!"
"Ya think."

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Hotel26

[swjr-swis]

The SWiS KSC crew was dismayed (and crestfallen!) at discovering post-publication that the prototype exhibited some  ... operational inconveniences. The complete lack of usage instructions was also a source of some strongly-worded reprimands.

The Deep-R prototype has been corrected, a brief instruction pamphlet was hastily taped to the outer hatch, and the responsible were exposed to targeted projectile pandemonium as a disciplinary measure.

[KerikBalm]

On 8/22/2023 at 1:09 PM, Nazalassa said:

Hypothesis: place the ground anchor mid-water (as it is on the second picture), then use a piston to push it against the seafloor. May also works for cliffs, but it has yet to be tested.

No, it cannot be placed. Notice it is red. That is the preview for the placement, it won't get placed at all.

On 8/22/2023 at 11:47 AM, Hotel26 said:

There is a certain number (2) of magic components in it to defeat the KSP buoyancy issues -

Yea, I'm trying to go full stock, but text file editing is needed to use a ground anchor. Of course, a ground anchor is only really needed with scatterer modding which goes beyond visual mods and adds wave effects to spalshed down craft.

So I had another idea, and that would be to: 1) send down a diving rig, while the floating part stays above, really light (floating high)

Spoiler

I then use ladders, an engineer, EVA construction mode, and the offset tool to start raising parts one at a time. Ladders are used to secure the kerbals. The small radial ore tanks transfer their ore out to be light enough to be moved. For aesthetics, I attach fuel lines to the tanks, but the real thing here is just moving the ladders so that I can keep offsetting the docking port, which I only ever move straight up

Nearly there, just need to join the floating part to the mining part:

It was tedious, I stopped attaching the fuel lines for aesthetics:

The bottom miner wasn't quite straight, after docking, the base was not quite level:

but it worked, and was filling up:

Then after joining the floating part to the miner, the mined ore will weigh down the top part, which will be resting on the miner, preventing it from sinking down as it increases in mass - and hopefully it won't rise up with the waves, and will thus be stationary despite the wave action

But this was very tedious, so I turned to robotics

There were multiple candidate locations

A simple set of linked extendable pistons (one hinge to pivot 90 degrees to point the drill down, another hinge to swing 180 degrees to allow for the drill to fold in half for storage) can give quite some reach, the bottom was accessible here:

But one candidate location was almost too shallow, I had to drill at a slant - the next iteration will have the hinge oriented so that I can just point half the "drill" down, and leave the other half in the cargo bay:

Of course, this looks more like a boat than a fixed base like the others, but it can serve the same purpose.

Due to the robotic drift bug, in use I would just have it maneuver to one undersea mount, extend the drill, lock everything in place, and then stay there.

I may try to change the robotic mounting so that the drills are below the CoM, and have some supports so that the craft can rest on the drill arm as it gets heavier (again, to avoid going up and down with the waves)

So, EVA construction vs robotics:

EVA pros: Lower part count, more flexible?

EVA cons: Tedious to build, requires some precision to look right and be level, cannot get down lower than crush depth (if part pressure limits are turned on: 400 m for Kerbin, 500m for Laythe, about 235 for Eve I think)

Robotics pros: Easier and quicker

Robotics cons: higher part count, robotics associated bugs must be designed/worked around.