Poll: KSP2 Monetization

[mcwaffles2003]

15 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

I have an idea in the back of my mind related to stories: the only value I see for the Karecibo message is that the Kraken breaking the rocket is something central to the story of KSP2. So there might be a narrative motivation to go interstellar because of it.

That's the beauty in the lack of having a canon, the community gets to make it instead. The kraken exists because the community made it so. Had KSP 1 had a formal canon the kraken probably never would have been a thing, it would just be a bug. 

Also, why take such an open ended game and narrow it down to a narrative?

[Vl3d]

16 minutes ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

why take such an open ended game and narrow it down to a narrative

You are confusing technical limitations and the old state of the game with intentional creative decisions.

Do you think Kerbin is actually completely empty of fauna and kerbal civilization? Of course not, it's just a technical limitation of an old game. It's not considered canon.

But the kraken was a name for a bug and then it became canon when they added the dead baby one on Bop.

The community did not come up with the alien space saucers, but they are canon.

The face on Duna and a lot of other stuff are inspired by real life events.

Kerbals are the creation of the developers.

Minmus is not made of ice cream.. like players like to say. It's glassy.

What do you mean there's no canon? There are sources of inspiration for creative decisions.

[pandaman]

@Vl3d  If by 'stories' you mean a series of specfied sequential missions with cut scene briefings etc. such as recreating  the Apollo program mission by mission .  Then personally I would find that very limiting.  But I do think that format could have a lot of value for tutorial purposes.

If you mean self contained specially created DLCs with a more abstract structure, but with a clear end or 'victory' condition as standalone 'campaign' then that would interest me a little more  E.g...

Mystery on Minmus. ...   A couple of 'anomalies' are detected on Minmus - go investigate.  These give more 'clues' or directions to other discoveries that ultimately build into or reveal a recipe for mint ice cream.  Once you have the complete recipe, you get the 'congratulations, game over' message.

 

Obviously, there could be scope for a much bigger and wider ranging 'campaign', and/or a 'multi pack' of 3 or 4 small independent self contained ones.

Edited April 30, 2022 by pandaman

[kspnerd122]

Mod Shop = MTX, MTX will not be in KSP2, and players hate paying for stuff that used to be free

[Vl3d]

16 minutes ago, pandaman said:

Obviously, there could be scope for a much bigger and wider ranging 'campaign', and/or a 'multi pack' of 3 or 4 small independent self contained ones.

The story of discovering alien life.

The story of traveling to another solar system.

The story of building an industrial empire.

The story of preventing an extinction level event.

No hand holding, you just discover it as you play, building solutions towards your goals.

Of course with cool cinematics and unforgettable moments (like launching / landing grandiose missions for the first time). Documentary type vibes.

[linuxgurugamer]

23 hours ago, saxappeal89129 said:

Furthermore, many of the things that can be DLC are usually WELL within the means of the mod community...

Quite so.  But, modders do this for fun, are unpaid and in many cases underappreciated.  A modder is one person, who cannot do the amount of development and testing that a team can.  Also, a modder does not have access to the system documentation or internals, which in many cases means that a mod just can't work as well as something built into a program.

I said that in many cases modders are underappreciated.  I must emphasize that there are many people/players who DO appreciate and express their appreciation to modders

[Bej Kerman]

On 4/30/2022 at 4:16 AM, Vl3d said:

I really, really, really want stories. I like books too. I don't feel they force anything. I feel like people who don't want quests or stories can just play the game as usual like an open world sandbox. But those of us who want stories really suffer because of this attitude.

[snip] You don't want a sandbox - so why are you playing KSP?

Edited May 1, 2022 by Snark
Redacted by moderator

[Vl3d]

I want a sandbox with stories and lore.

[Bej Kerman]

6 minutes ago, Vl3d said:

I want a sandbox with stories and lore.

We want to make up our own stories, though.

[saxappeal89129]

On 4/29/2022 at 1:22 PM, Master39 said:

Do you plan to pay for mods?

Otherwise what you're saying here is "Devs shouldn't wasting time and we shouldn't wasting money, there's those idiots doing all the work for free".

I want the devs to support the game, not third parties fixing it for free.

The only think I can demand and expect from devs on modding is that the game is moddable, and modder-friendly, nothing more. I don't want the plan to be hinging on taking for granted a stil non-existing modding community.

 

I want the game to have long term support, in 5 years, 10 years from now I want to be here on the forum speculating on what the next big expansion will contain, this is an open ended sandbox game, not a story driven one, let's make the comparison with similar games, it's useless to make comparisons with RPGs and shooters.

Oxygen not Included, Rimworld, Factorio, Stellaris, Cities: Skylines, Europa Universalis, Timberborn, Dyson Sphere program (the last two are still in Early Access).

Those are games similar in model and scope to KSP2, different genres and settings, yes, but all games on which you can spend thousands of hours and for which big expansions are still the main monetization model and sequels only seen when there's some real technological gap to cover.

 

Monetization needs to come if we want to talk about a long term for this game, I don't think anyone here is talking about launch-day DLCs, but probably not even expecting them in the first year after release. KSP1 lasted for a decade, that's the kind of timeframe in everyone's mind here.

I wasn't very active here prior to KSP2 discussions, but my forum account will be 9 years old in a month, when I think about KSP2 I think about the next 9, not the few months after launch, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

[snip]

1) I've never paid for mods, and there are THOUSANDS out there for KSP1; haven't you heard of SpaceDock, CurseForge, Nexus??? Are you really trying to say the KSP1 Mod community is non-existent? I've never heard anything more laughable in my life... there's even a VR-Mod out there sheeesh.

2) You want a game that has long term support??? KSP1 is over well over 10yrs old, in fact it's been on steam since 2011 (was on their own website long before steam) Why would you get the impression that KSP2 wouldn't be supported that long, do you have any evidence other than subterfuge and misdirection?

3) Monetization is NOT needed, IN FACT: The first expansion to KSP1 happened 7yrs after it was released as 1.0 to the public.... let's say that out loud together...SEVEN WHOLE ENTIRE YEARS AFTER RELEASE. And KSP1 is doing perfectly fine with new updates regularly. Again, I think your spinning unfounded facts and using misdirection to both argue and suit your own predisposition.

On 4/30/2022 at 1:08 PM, Bej Kerman said:

We want to make up our own stories, though.

Then you're looking for X-Universe, and Elite-Dangerous... (Sorry Bej, I meant to say this to the person you were responding to)

Edited May 1, 2022 by Vanamonde

[Guest]

[snip]

15 hours ago, saxappeal89129 said:

1) I've never paid for mods, and there are THOUSANDS out there for KSP1; haven't you heard of SpaceDock, CurseForge, Nexus??? Are you really trying to say the KSP1 Mod community is non-existent? I've never heard anything more laughable in my life... there's even a VR-Mod out there sheeesh.

You completely missed the point, but I get it, ungratefulness and taking modders for granted is quite the standard position for the gaming community, the status quo.

I can only wonder what the modding community for every game would be without all the burning out of good modders due to the community acting as entitled as if they paid for the mods.

And instead here we are, with people barely tolerating even donation links.

 

15 hours ago, saxappeal89129 said:

2) You want a game that has long term support??? KSP1 is over well over 10yrs old, in fact it's been on steam since 2011 (was on their own website long before steam) Why would you get the impression that KSP2 wouldn't be supported that long, do you have any evidence other than subterfuge and misdirection?

I'm not getting the idea that KSP won't have long term support, I hope it will have it and I suppose it will.

I was merely telling you that when we talk about monetization and expansions we're not talking abot D1 DLCs, but thinking of a longer timeframe.

 

15 hours ago, saxappeal89129 said:

3) Monetization is NOT needed, IN FACT: The first expansion to KSP1 happened 7yrs after it was released as 1.0 to the public.... let's say that out loud together...SEVEN WHOLE ENTIRE YEARS AFTER RELEASE. And KSP1 is doing perfectly fine with new updates regularly.

I think we have a very different Idea of "perfectly fine". As much as I love KSP it's probably as far away as possible from the idea of a "perfectly fine" development cycle.

After 10 years we still don't have a fully working wheel system and we have to play a lottery every time we approach a ground base with a lander, but yes, I guess that's "perfectly fine".

10 years later and half of the game is still in the "placeholder that I'll fix later" category.

 

15 hours ago, saxappeal89129 said:

Again, I think your spinning unfounded facts and using misdirection to both argue and suit your own predisposition.

Or, maybe, I don't start from the viewpoint of being entitled to everything for free.

But even if I didn't care about paying people for their work I would argue that, after 10 years of seing KSP struggle with even the most basic features and the update cycle being stuck chasing whatever shiny thing they could put in the marketing instead of less evident things like bugs, progression gameplay or balance, I'd prefer a model in which I pay for a new expansion every so often and the studio can afford to keep its attention focused on the game for longer and keep the talent they have employed.

Go ask an Elite Dangerous fan how well it served to have an anemic monetization model, especially lately, after they just released a poorly developed FPS Planetside 2 clone DLC because they pretty much exausted the pool of possbly interested space flight players, and recently announced that the gamebrekaing bugs in the planet generation won't be fixet because they can't even afford to do the required background work (oh, and they just dropped the launch of said DLC for consoles, for the same reason).

 

Edited May 1, 2022 by Vanamonde

[Vanamonde]

Some cranky remarks removed. Please disagree with each other without getting nasty about it. 

[pandaman]

Monetisation, in some form, is essential for the long term maintenance and development of the game.  Even if they made 'enough' from initial sales to fund it for a few years or more that 'reserve' would still dry up at some point so unless additional income can be found then that support ceases.

So, optional paid DLC in the form of expansions that add 'extra stuff' (planet/star system packs, themed parts packs that add extra functionality, mission/scenario/story packs, novelty aesthetic extras such as suit options and ship skins etc.)  I think is inevitable.

Hopefully 'during play, in game' purchases or pop up links/adverts won't ever be a thing.  A store link on the start up or pause menus would be ok for me as is won't interfere with actual gameplay.

[A Generic Kerbal]

On 4/29/2022 at 10:42 PM, saxappeal89129 said:

If you have to push it back to 2023... so be it, so say we all. 

nope. no more push backs

[Bej Kerman]

1 hour ago, A Generic Kerbal said:

On 4/29/2022 at 8:42 PM, saxappeal89129 said:

If you have to push it back to 2023... so be it, so say we all. 

nope. no more push backs

Push backs please, as long as the game isn't rushed it's fine

[KSPLuster]

15 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

Push backs please, as long as the game isn't rushed it's fine

agreed