Russia/China cooperation

[SunlitZelkova]

Question to anyone who may know: What was the exact history of Russian space cooperation with China? Astronautix states that Russian (at that point, still Soviet to a certain extent) “cooperation” with China began when “lecturers” briefed Chinese engineers on Soyuz in May 1991 (a month before the RSFSR would have had the power to order such an action, thus I am assuming it was the Soviet government that did it), but that sentence is rather vague and doesn’t indicate whether that was just a display or an actual intent to offer technology for sale. The closest equivalent to the Soyuz technology transfer (sale/co-production of Su-27s) didn’t occur until 1996.

I ask as I am trying to figure out how the Shenzhou program would fair in a world where the USSR didn’t collapse. It kind of comes down to the technology transfer. From what I can tell right now, China still could have done it, but it may have been rather delayed (in certain cases use of Russian facilities was required because China lacked them).

[kerbiloid]

https://ru-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Р-2?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ru

Quote

On December 6, 1957, by decision of the USSR government, within the framework of military-technical cooperation, a production license, a complete set of documentation for 8ZH38 and two assembled missiles were transferred to the People's Republic of China .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dongfeng_(missile)#Dongfeng_1_(SS-2)

 

[steve9728]

From 1949 onwards, the Soviet provided, taught and assisted with everything from rifles to missiles, from agricultural tractors to nuclear bomb technology in parallel: in Chinese, it was almost like 'teach everything as they can (倾囊相授)'. It was stop until July 1960, when Sino-Soviet relations broke down and the Soviet Union withdrew all its experts from China. Related cooperation did not continue until the normalisation of Sino-Soviet relations after 1989.

"For a full year, from October 1996 to November 1997, we trained mainly two Chinese astronauts. In terms of training orientation, one was the captain of a manned spacecraft crew and the other was an engineer. from June 1998 to August 1998, we trained a team of Chinese astronaut medical experts who were trained in essentially all the programs at our centre. As far as I know, they were not only fully trained at our centre, but they also carried out the relevant experiments and preparations in China as well.", said by the Deputy Director, Gagarin Astronaut Training Centre, "The training that Chinese astronauts receive here is systematic and complex. First of all they learn Russian, which is the basis for their mastery of astronautical theory and for a series of specific professional training, and I would like to say that although the Chinese astronauts have only had one year of training at our centre, they have reached a high level of Russian, which provides them with excellent conditions for further mastery of other skills. As for astronautical theory and specific professional training, there are seven main components: firstly, training in the basic theory of spaceflight; secondly, training in medical and biological knowledge; thirdly, training in post-landing manoeuvres; fourthly, technical training; fifthly, flight training; sixthly, training in extravehicular activities; and seventhly, astronomical observations. According to the report provided by the Director of the Training Department of our Centre, Karkapolov, the total number of hours invested by the Chinese astronauts in just the second phase of their training from 15 March 1997 to 18 July 1997 amounted to more than 700 hours, and their overall score was 4+ to 5, which, I should say, is quite good, although, of course, the examinations given to them by our Training Centre were strict even severe." (original source)

The Shenzhou project was been set up at 21th Sep. 1992. In case of that the code name was 'Project 921". So logically,the cooperation between China and Russia on the Shenzhou project not earlier than conclusion of the theoretical debate on "Space shuttle or Spaceship?" and "whether to use three modules or two modules or 'rigid passage solution'" in 1991. And not later than the training of Chinese astronauts in Russia in 1996.

Spoiler

The three-module solution is the one now adopted by the Shenzhou spacecraft, with the orbital module at the top, the return module in the middle and the propulsion module at the bottom. The three-module structure adds an orbital module, which is the living and working module for the astronauts during free flight in space, and will be separated before the astronauts return to the ground so that the return module can be appropriately reduced in size for the astronauts' ascent and return. The disadvantage of this option is the complexity of the launch segment life-saving.

The two-module solution is simple from a life-saving point of view as there is no orbital module and the escape system only needs to take two modules with it. However, if three astronauts are carried, they must be put in the return capsule, and the return capsule must be more than 3 metres in diameter, which will bring a series of technical difficulties: the rocket fairing must also be enlarged during launch, and for the rocket, a large head means instability; the parachute must also be enlarged during return, and now the 2.5-metre diameter Shenzhou spacecraft return capsule requires a parachute of 1200 square metres; moreover, the return capsule brings back what it does not need to bring back, invariably increasing the structural mass of the return capsule.

The rigid passage solution also uses three modules, but the return module is at the top, it uses an external rigid passage to connect the return module and the orbital module, and the astronauts can enter the orbital module through the passage. This option is the easiest to save lives because the return module is at the top, but it is difficult to make this access design technically practical and reliable, as the access is too large to interfere with the launch and too small to achieve its purpose. The interesting thing is that experts really designed this channel, some experts have also climbed, afterwards felt too difficult, think about the astronauts in space suits climbing up they're afraid more difficult. (original source)

 

15 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

https://ru-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Р-2?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ru

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dongfeng_(missile)#Dongfeng_1_(SS-2)

 

I was visit the military museum in Beijing and saw those exhibits really close. And more than that, on the the floor below them, an U-2 wreckage which put together by four, was surronded by exhibits of S-75, Chinese name HQ-2 (Red Flag, 红旗) hahaha

Edited May 11, 2022 by steve9728

[Vanamonde]

This discussion has been split from another thread to keep things on-topic.