Ryaja Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 (edited) What I mean is I do not want interstellar to be an endpoint, I want to have to go to other star systems to get more science and get more atmospheric engines, and stuff like that. Essentially each system you go to unlocks a large portion of the tech tree past what you have. (If people are confused someone who understands this might be able to explain it better than me.) Edited July 6, 2022 by Ryaja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_v Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 I definitely get that. In my modded playthroughs, interstellar is almost at the end of the tech tree, and I unlock pretty much everything else before going to the first new star system. After getting to new systems, most of what I do is just set up progressively larger infrastructure to be able to hop to the next system, and by itself that gets to be boring because there is no new challenge because all the tech makes things easy. To counterbalance that, I make sure that the warp drives only unlock after two to three star systems so that it feels like I am working towards something and the gratification of getting places more easily is larger. Two things I think need to happen is that interstellar technology should improve and planetary technology should improve after reaching new systems. The first interstellar mission should be clunky and slow, with a relatively inefficient engine and lots of separate parts to deal with the drawbacks of the technology (really really radiative parts with no good shielding for example). Eventually though, interstellar vehicles should be well-oiled, compact machines that travel tens of times faster than the first generation ships, have much higher dry/fuel ratios, and are much more capable at managing heat and radiation. This would give interstellar travel meaningful progression beyond the first flight, and I always wanted to see a ship powered by a fifth-generation Daedalus engine. Second, you should not have the perfect tech for planets by the time you finish exploring the first extrakerbolar system. Ultra-high-thrust engines should only really be developed once you have landed on Ovin and brought back some science. Better versions of everything from solid fuel to fusion engines should be discovered by visiting specific planets in the late game. New types of parts, like lava-capable hulls, should emerge from environments that cannot be found in the Kerbol system. These examples are not the best, but stuff like that could go a long way to adding late game progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ember12 Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 (edited) The devs have said that there are engines unlocked after interstellar engines, so there will probably be a bunch of other stuff too. Edited July 7, 2022 by Ember12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pthigrivi Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 (edited) I think you do want to hold back the last couple of giant crazy engines until you had explored a couple of other systems, maybe also super efficient reactors and final tier colony modules, but I don’t think its wise to just keep adding arbitrarily more broken tech because that also will take the fun out of the game. There are other potential incentives though. For instance we know boom events will increase your populations, so it might be if you want to keep growing your colonies to crazy sizes you still have to get out there and discover new worlds. This is a big part of the reason Im hoping there are pretty tight mechanics in terms of colony habitation, population size, and resource output. If its all just aesthetics and nothing does anything the experience will feel a little hollow and you won’t be able to stretch that good gameplay out indefinitely. Thats the beauty of good city builders. You can just keep growing and growing and making cooler and cooler things and thats what the game is about. If the game is just about the tech tree the fun only lasts until you get that last crazy engine. You’ll try it out a few times for funzies and that’ll be it. Thats part of the reason so few players ever even go interplanetary in KSP1. There are no deeper mechanics to the game so most players complete the tech tree and start over, never bothering to explore further. Or they just skip the grind and goof off in sandbox. Edited July 7, 2022 by Pthigrivi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_v Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 34 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said: I don’t think its wise to just keep adding arbitrarily more broken tech I agree completely, and that’s why I hope that there is a limit to the more broken-ness and more of a spread in versatility and diversity. Like the heat-resistant hulls, they wouldn’t make things arbitrarily easy but would instead broaden the range of situations you could fly craft in, potentially dipping nearer to stars than before. Or even engines with increased stats, I’m sure that the super high thrust engine meant that sacrifices had to be made in Isp or weight, such that it only makes getting off planets marginally easier (you only need so much thrust after all) but now you can explore high surface gravity areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pthigrivi Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, t_v said: I agree completely, and that’s why I hope that there is a limit to the more broken-ness and more of a spread in versatility and diversity. Like the heat-resistant hulls, they wouldn’t make things arbitrarily easy but would instead broaden the range of situations you could fly craft in, potentially dipping nearer to stars than before. Or even engines with increased stats, I’m sure that the super high thrust engine meant that sacrifices had to be made in Isp or weight, such that it only makes getting off planets marginally easier (you only need so much thrust after all) but now you can explore high surface gravity areas. Im splitting my comments on this so as not to hijack, but I like what you’re saying about late-late game rewards. I’ll only say I think rewards that aren’t on the tech tree are critical as well and have a much greater potential to extend deep gameplay because they scale better. For instance: should a player who visits all the planets and moons in two systems receive the same rewards and complete the tech tree faster than a player who visits just a couple of planets in each system? Or the opposite? Should you need to colonize some? How are those relative rewards balanced and managed? Any way you stack it the tech tree is finite and cannot respond elastically to these questions. You need some other non-finite reward to drive exploration even after the tech tree is complete. Edited July 7, 2022 by Pthigrivi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vl3d Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 Also remember that not all players will have the same progression regarding resource exploitation. The tech you unlock is one thing, the tech you can build is another. No two games will be the same, you will be limited by resources more than tech level - if you unlock two types of engines on the same tier you might only have resources for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephensmat Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 This is my only great fear. In science mode, you unlock the tree, and what else is there? In career mode, you get rewarded for incremental, repetitive steps. Somewhere between the two, you get a a re-playable game. KSP1 is grindy, once you get used to all the steps involved. In KSP1, when you unlock a vital new part, it's like the game is made new again. There's a whole new horizon for you to explore because you can get there now. KSP2 has orbital construction and planetary colonization. Things I've really wished KSP1 had. It's really the only missing piece. My fear is that interstellar flight is just the same system over again, after you've unlocked the tech tree, with a longer warp between steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
determinationmaster Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 15 hours ago, t_v said: you only need so much thrust after all wait... are you telling me to use LESS BOOSTERS?????PREPOSTEROUS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_v Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 I’m sorry, I’ll get out of your way, you are accelerating at about 200 g’s more than me anyways…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xelo Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 5 hours ago, t_v said: I’m sorry, I’ll get out of your way, you are accelerating at about 200 g’s more than me anyways…. You misunderstand. You see, past a point in thruster power it stops becoming you getting to places faster, but rather getting places to come to you :))))))Planet redirection anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryaja Posted July 8, 2022 Author Share Posted July 8, 2022 (edited) On 7/7/2022 at 1:10 PM, determinationmaster said: wait... are you telling me to use LESS BOOSTERS?????PREPOSTEROUS Or you have MOAR BOOSTERS WITH MOAR THRUST so you can launch the entire KSC at once. Edited July 9, 2022 by Ryaja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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