Las Kerbas Safety First Challenge

[18Watt]

On 10/8/2022 at 7:51 AM, Scarecrow71 said:

I want to test this, but Hyperedit doesn’t play with MechJeb very nicely.

Here’s one of the ways I do testing on ships.  I build them in a separate sandbox save, and do the testing in sandbox.  Then I can F12 them anywhere I need for testing, and even F12 relay satellites into position to make sure I have a good com link.  The current version of KSP allows you to load ships from other saves from within the game, you don’t need to move files around anymore.   Seems to be a convenient way to test things, at least for me.

That is a very impressive orbital construction you have!

[Scarecrow71]

14 minutes ago, 18Watt said:

Here’s one of the ways I do testing on ships.  I build them in a separate sandbox save, and do the testing in sandbox.  Then I can F12 them anywhere I need for testing, and even F12 relay satellites into position to make sure I have a good com link.  The current version of KSP allows you to load ships from other saves from within the game, you don’t need to move files around anymore.   Seems to be a convenient way to test things, at least for me.

That is a very impressive orbital construction you have!

The problem is that I wanted to test landing the Tylo lander, but MJ doesn't like the cheat menu.

[Scarecrow71]

With having to scrap my current unmanned Jool-5 thanks to the Kraken, I need to build up some more science and funds.  So I picked up contracts to rescue Clauwin from orbit of Kerbin and then plant a flag on Minmus.  I’m about out of places on Minmus to actually get science from, but I may as well do it!  I can reuse the Linbal Rescue Machine to do this, and then land on the poles on Minmus to get the needed science here.  And I was able to get enough science to unlock Advanced Science Tech.  Yay, more gadgets!

I’m getting close to finishing this challenge.  I only have 6 nodes on Tier VIII and all 4 nodes on Tier IX to go.  And I’m pretty sure I can button this up without having to do the unmanned Jool-5 (although I reserve the right to still do that at some point, but with better components).  So what I’m going to do now is head to Dres and prove that it exists.  First, I build a lander that looks like so:

It’s not the prettiest, but it will certainly do.  All this thing has to do is get to the surface, collect science, and then get back up to the return module.  I’ll be moving all remaining fuel back to the return module, then moving all collected science to a science collection container, and then jettisoning this thing into the depths of outer space.  So with that in mind, we build the following rocket to get us to Dres and back:

So, I can get a transfer window immediately for 1900 dV…or I can wait 27 days and get one for 6000 dV.  Guess which one I’m taking here?

Got a nice stable orbit around Dres.  And now it’s time to land and collect that sweet, sweet science!

And forgot a shot of the ship docked, but here we are back in a higher orbit waiting to transfer back to Kerbin.

And a transfer back to Kerbin for 1327.6 m/s dV.  Awesome.  And back home now.

That run to Dres generated enough science to unlock the following:

• High-Performance Fuel Systems
• Hypersonic Flight
• Specialized Electrics

That still leaves me with 3 nodes on Tier VIII, and I haven’t even touched Tier IX.  Damn.

[Scarecrow71]

Another day, another log in the old mission report.  Getting pretty close...but still a ways off.

Unmanned Jool-5, Lander Fuel Module

Spoiler

Ok, so we’re going to try the unmanned Jool-5 again.  The last attempt failed miserably, with the kraken deciding it was hungry.  My guess is that it was due to the sheer number of parts I had on the mothership when everything was docked.  So this time I’m going to do things a bit differently.  Same concept, but a different approach to several things.

For starters, I’m not going to have 5 different landers; that’s just silly.  I shouldn’t need the same thing replicated 5 times.  Like, what was I thinking?  Instead, I’ll start off by sending a lander module into LKO, but I’ll outfit it with a boatload of fuel that I can use to refuel the actual lander.

I’ve got a pair of FL-R1 RCS fuel tanks on there to help refuel the lander after docking, as well as 8 FL-TX1800 fuel tanks for actual refueling.  And I also learned with my last attempt that, because I’m adding solar panels and antenna to each module, I won’t need the power/communication module I built last time.  So saving on parts there, too.  I put this into a 200km orbit:

Unmanned Jool-5, Lander Module

Spoiler

The next step here is to build a lander and get that up to lander module.  One of the issues we are going to run into here is the number of gadgets we can put on the lander to get as much science as possible.  The Science Jr. and the Mystery Goo Container are the biggest problems here because we won’t be able to re-use them once we’ve collected science with them.  Without a scientist onboard, we won’t be able to reset them after use.  Which means we can do this in one of several different ways:

1. Multiple landers; OR
2. A science module that has multiple materials bays and goo cannisters; OR
3. Forget these 2 gadgets altogether

We’ve already eliminated #1 above; we are only going to have a single lander and re-use that (hopefully) on all 5 bodies orbiting Jool.  This will save on overall fuel needs, weight, part count, and cost.  This leaves us with #2 or #3 above, and each has its own things to consider.

With #2, we’d have to have some way of attaching a new materials bay and goo cannister to the lander to collect the science on the moon, store that science, and then jettison the bay/cannister combo so we can dock to the mothership and transfer all the science into an Experiment Storage Unit.  I see this is having a lander then that has a docking port on top of it where a drone hauling the bay/cannister unit would then dock to the lander, then the lander does its thing, and then comes back and docks to the mothership.  This would add a bunch of weight to the mothership to account for the 5 individual drones just for this purpose (payload bay, materials bay, goo cannister, probe core, docking ports, batteries, monopropellant tanks, monopropellant thrusters).  This is weight we honestly don’t need.

With #3, we are effectively saying “We don’t want this science”, and will simply live with whatever science we end up getting from the gadgets we do put on the lander.  Sure, we’ll retrieve some science, and we’ll save on overall weight of the lander and mothership, but we will be missing out on a bunch of science that we may need.  And considering the science requirements to unlock the remaining nodes (a total of 5650 – 3 nodes at 550 each, plus 4 nodes at 1000 each), these are points that we need and may have to grind out after the trip to finish the challenge.

Now, none of this takes into consideration that we would need materials bays and goo cannisters to get these science points high in space and near over the moons and Jool itself.  In the first iteration of this attempt, I did build a science module that took this into account.  And I still have it, so it’s entirely possible that I use this for this attempt.

After weighing the pros and cons of this, I am going with option #3, passing over the materials bays and goo cannisters for the lander itself.  I simply believe that the amount of science to be gained is just not enough to compensate for all of that additional weight and planning and effort to bring the gadgets along.  Maybe in another life?  Anyhow, I built the following lander and got it up to the lander module:

It might be a bit too tall and not wide enough, but we shall see what happens!  So I put this thing up into LKO and docked it to the lander module:

Took a little more monopropellant than I wanted to use, but I’ve got a bunch up there AND I’ll always be sending more with the other modules I must send up there.  So, I’m not worried.  Yet.

Unmanned Jool-5, Return Module

Spoiler

Next up is to craft and dock a return module.  This piece has to be able to store the collected science data, as well as have enough fuel to get back to Kerbin and then land (relatively) safely.  So I crafted this and put it up into LKO:

Not bad for this second attempt.  This gives me the lander, extra fuel for the lander, and the return module all in LKO.  I need to put enough fuel to get to Jool and orbit every body, engines, and potentially a science module up there yet.  I don’t need to go the power/communications route because I’ve got antenna and solar panels on this thing from every module I put up there, which should be enough.

Ike Landing

Spoiler

So, as I always do before I send more components up to the monstrosity that is becoming my unmanned Jool-5 ship, I check Mission Control.  And I’ve got a couple of contracts I’m going to deal with:

• Rescue Jonfrid from orbit of Kerbin
• Explore Ike

This is going to be a bit of an interesting double mission that I’m going to pull off.  I’ve got a ship that I use to grab Kerbals in orbit and then go off to Mun or Minmus, but I’ve not tried to pull this off to go outside of Kerbin’s SOI.  Here is what I am thinking of in terms of the full mission:

• Send up a ship to grab Jonfrid
• Send up a ship to grab the ship I sent up to grab Jonfrid
• Head off to Ike

But wait, why two ships to grab Jonfrid?  Because the ship Jonfrid is stranded in has no docking ports.  I can craft a rescue ship with both the Advanced Grabbing Unit and a Docking Port Sr. to grab Jonfrid, then send up the ship/lander for Ike to dock with the ship that initially rescued Jonfrid.  It seems a bit out there, but it is what it is.  So I send up the following to go start the rescue of Jonfrid:

Wow, that’s pretty basic, isn’t it?  A lander capsule, some propulsion, the claw…and a docking port that looks way too big for this thing.  But it will work.  In fact, here we are in LKO after grabbing on to Jonfrid’s wreckage:

And now we’ve got Jonfrid in a pod with a docking port.  This is so when I get the Ike ship up into LKO, I can use this pod to dock with the Ike ship and transfer Jonfrid to that lander.  And I can transfer any fuel left in this thing to the Ike ship.  It’s like a convenience store!  I know it sounds convoluted, but this is how my mind works.  Anyhow, here’s the lander and ship for Ike, with a shot or two with Jonfrid now transferred to it:

Jonfrid is now on the ship to head to Duna/Ike, and I’ve got the maneuver node set up.  1 year, 227 days and change, and it’s only going to be 1020 m/s of dV.  Oh, and look, an Ike encounter without having to orbit Duna first!

And look what’s just a few meters away – Duna Ejecta.  What a landing!

A return to Kerbin for 503 m/s.  Nice!  I earned enough science on that run to unlock:

• Advanced Motors
• Experimental Aerodynamics
• Ion Propulsion

Hmm.  Thought I would have at least gotten enough to unlock one of the last 4 nodes.  Well, I’m close!

 

[18Watt]

Regarding the change in strategy for the Jool program- I also find that a one lander fits all approach works pretty well.  There are only a few CBs that benefit from specialized landers.  Unfortunately, two of those CBs are moons of Jool, Tylo and Laythe.  Eve is the only other CB that really requires a specialized lander, especially if you want to return to orbit.

For Tylo, the mass I bring back to orbit is normally too small to be useful on other moons.  So I usually make a dedicated Tylo lander.  Or just skip Tylo altogether, it’s a lot of work!

I have a difficult time hitting land on Laythe, so I like to send spaceplanes for that.  But if you can make the lander float upright, then a basic rocket lander works good too.  Or just learn how to hit land- I still can’t do that consistently..

Good luck!

[Scarecrow71]

7 hours ago, 18Watt said:

Regarding the change in strategy for the Jool program- I also find that a one lander fits all approach works pretty well.  There are only a few CBs that benefit from specialized landers.  Unfortunately, two of those CBs are moons of Jool, Tylo and Laythe.  Eve is the only other CB that really requires a specialized lander, especially if you want to return to orbit.

For Tylo, the mass I bring back to orbit is normally too small to be useful on other moons.  So I usually make a dedicated Tylo lander.  Or just skip Tylo altogether, it’s a lot of work!

I have a difficult time hitting land on Laythe, so I like to send spaceplanes for that.  But if you can make the lander float upright, then a basic rocket lander works good too.  Or just learn how to hit land- I still can’t do that consistently..

Good luck!

I'm already planning to do Tylo last so that I can jettison unnecessary parts on ascent back to space.  As far as Laythe goes, I'm going to let MJ handle the landing.  All I gotta do is select where to land.