toty 2022 [1.12.x] Parallax - PBR Terrain and Surface Objects [2.0.2]

[RyanRising]

That does look incredible. This could end up being as essential as Scatterer! Which is why the license choice is a bit unsettling, of course, but I do appreciate having an explanation for your choice.

I do get the feeling neither my CPU and GPU will appreciate it, though, despite it running fine for the trailer. I’ll enjoy trying it out! 

[EchoLima]

screams in CPU throttling

screams in RAM usage

screams in GPU temps

just outright screaming now

 

This looks amazing! Like an entirely different game!

[iteranthypatic]

Someone should write an ode to the KSP community and all the modders therein. This mod is an amazing achievement!

Also, since the source-code is open, and you could get there faster with a good team, I'd recommend going to a friendlier license like MIT, just to add to the ethos

[Entropian]

Damn.  And I literally just upgraded to the required specs.  This looks great; will there be RSS configs?

[Clamp-o-Tron]

Wow. This is astounding. KSP2 isn't really necessary when we have awesome mods like this. I'm assuming, however, the terrain is determined algorithmically with a few textures to serve as colors? 

[catloaf]

Will you be able to lower the quality of the shader as well as the resolution, because if not I don't have a chance at running this!

[Neil Kermstrong]

yo I didn't plan on making my computer a barbecue grill

[R-T-B]

@Gameslinx, I know you know this, but if you need any assistance from Kopernicus (systems implemented or whatever) re this shader, or even a good tester, I'm here to help.

2 hours ago, catloaf said:

Will you be able to lower the quality of the shader as well as the resolution, because if not I don't have a chance at running this!

You can always lower the game resolution.  If you run at say 1080p it should be much much lower system requirements.  4K is a BEAR to run.

6 hours ago, iteranthypatic said:

Also, since the source-code is open, and you could get there faster with a good team, I'd recommend going to a friendlier license like MIT, just to add to the ethos

I'll further extend that offer:  If you do decide to go to an open source license, I wouldn't even be opposed to making this a literal baked-into-Kopernicus option (with full credit of course).  Just a thought, maybe appropriate maybe not.  If you want to reserve rights I understand and still am totally a fan.

Edited September 21, 2020 by R-T-B

[Poodmund]

I for one support the choice to go for the ARR licence, it's your hard work buddy and no one else's. Pouring months of hard work into a project compared to spending 30 seconds going 'make it open source' is not equatable or reasonable on any level.

You do you.

[R-T-B]

1 hour ago, Poodmund said:

I for one support the choice to go for the ARR licence, it's your hard work buddy and no one else's. Pouring months of hard work into a project compared to spending 30 seconds going 'make it open source' is not equatable or reasonable on any level.

You do you.

I'm certainly of the same mindset, I just wanted to say if he does decide to OSS it we'd be willing to work with him on pulling relevant or useful changes into Kopernicus.  Heck, we're willing to help regardless but we can't integrate pieces of proprietary work into Kopernicus GPL code for obvious reasons.

Edited September 21, 2020 by R-T-B

[iteranthypatic]

3 hours ago, R-T-B said:

@Gameslinx, I know you know this, but if you need any assistance from Kopernicus (systems implemented or whatever) re this shader, or even a good tester, I'm here to help

I'll further extend that offer:  If you do decide to go to an open source license, I wouldn't even be opposed to making this a literal baked-into-Kopernicus option (with full credit of course).  Just a thought, maybe appropriate maybe not.  If you want to reserve rights I understand and still am totally a fan.

I'd like to tack on to this offer, I've been studying design + UI/UX and some front-end stuff lately and I'm happy to help out with that.

2 hours ago, Poodmund said:

I for one support the choice to go for the ARR licence, it's your hard work buddy and no one else's. Pouring months of hard work into a project compared to spending 30 seconds going 'make it open source' is not equatable or reasonable on any level.

You do you.

While I agree with your sentiment here, I feel like it's a mischaracterisation of different license types and reality. For example, as they fear people using their work in their mods etc. (though I'm guessing the KSP community wouldn't do that without permission), there's a specific CC license for this,

Quote

CC BY-NC-ND: This license allows reusers to copy and distribute the material in any medium or format in unadapted form only, and only so long as attribution is given to the creator. The license only allows for noncommercial use. 

You can read more here, https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/

Now you might be asking why not just use ARR? Well, that's a long and complicated story, but by itself it doesn't mean much see here, https://jdebp.eu/FGA/law-copyright-all-rights-reserved.html and secondly, it doesn't mention nor specify what rights and how and for whom. The purpose of a license is to set forth a set of understandable and applicable statements that are acceptable both in some court of law (if it ever comes to that - lawsuits are expensive) and with whatever community you're engaging with.

I think that the KSP community is kind and generous and they'll honor your wishes, no matter what they are.

[Gameslinx]

1 minute ago, iteranthypatic said:

You can read more here, https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/

I spent most of this morning researching licenses and I think CC-BY-ND-4.0 is the license I will use going forward after the mod releases.

I'm not at all worried about the KSP community wanting to make changes to the code or help out - I'm worried about people outside of KSP using the shader for their own purposes and the license aims to protect me against that happening. Since the license above prevents modification and commercial use, I think I'll go with that.

[iteranthypatic]

1 minute ago, Gameslinx said:

I spent most of this morning researching licenses and I think CC-BY-ND-4.0 is the license I will use going forward after the mod releases.

I'm not at all worried about the KSP community wanting to make changes to the code or help out - I'm worried about people outside of KSP using the shader for their own purposes and the license aims to protect me against that happening. Since the license above prevents modification and commercial use, I think I'll go with that.

Ahhh that makes perfect sense! Lemme know if I can help somehow. I'm good at parsing legalese and have redlined my fair share (i.e. one too many) of long contracts.

[Poodmund]

It's also worth wondering whether you want to tag on the Non-Commercial portion onto the license on not. Running a Patreon alongside the mod is not an issue as long as the mod is not gatekept behind Patreon access. 

The only grey area with the Non-Derivative license is how others can package up your mod into their mod packs. If left unaltered, some view it as okay to do so as the distribution is not a derivative version of your work whereas others see the compilation of your work inside another distribution as a derivative piece of work... there are even Moderators on this forum who view this slightly differently. It's a bit messy but it's also the license I also think is the most appropriate when it comes to mods like this that contain artwork (hence why a lot of planet mod packs also use this licenses.

EDIT: It's also worth mentioning that you can license different parts of your mod under different licenses i.e. code under ARR, art assets under CC etc. etc. if you felt like it's appropriate to do so.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Poodmund

[Deddly]

I find this website great at summarising licenses:

https://tldrlegal.com/license/creative-commons-attribution-noderivatives-4.0-international-(cc-by-nd-4.0)

https://tldrlegal.com/license/creative-commons-attribution-noncommercial-noderivs-(cc-nc-nd)

[Okhin]

30 minutes ago, Poodmund said:

It's also worth wondering whether you want to tag on the Non-Commercial portion onto the license on not. Running a Patreon alongside the mod is not an issue as long as the mod is not gatekept behind Patreon access.

The Non-Commercial close does not forbid the licensor to use a patreon to fund its project or effort. It does so for the licensee, according to the creative commons wiki (it's a wiki, it's not legal counsel, if you really need legal counsel, seeks some to a lawyer, license clause might work differently in some legal contextes)

In this case, it means that @Gameslinx can very well lock his module behind a patreon for instance. But if another team uses the mod as a dependency and wants to have their mods behind a paywall, they would not be allowed to do so. Basically, the creator of the project can do whatever they want with it, they're not bind by the license. The license is for everyone else.

[Deddly]

1 hour ago, Okhin said:

Basically, the creator of the project can do whatever they want with it, they're not bind by the license. The license is for everyone else.

Exactly this. Licensing does not in any way alter the rights of the creator, it merely tells other people what they are allowed to do with it. 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Deddly
Clarification

[Deddly]

Oh I should probably clarify one thing: Although a license does not alter the rights of the creator, once chosen, most licenses can't be arbitrarily changed. In other words, if the creator were to decide after a while that, no, he wants to set a more restrictive license, the more restrictive license will not apply retroactively to old versions of the release. It's worth bearing in mind.

 

Whatever license is finally chosen, I just can't get over how potentially game changing this mod would be. I just have to ask: is the terrain actually textured and bumpy or is it a very attractive texture painted on a flat surface?

[Gameslinx]

3 minutes ago, Deddly said:

I just have to ask: is the terrain actually textured and bumpy or is it a very attractive texture painted on a flat surface?

Those bumps that you see do actually exist, but they can't be collided with. Collision detection is very, very expensive! I might work on very basic collisions in the future, but for now your wheels may pass through some of the material and behave like they normally would

[hypervelocity]

this looks gorgeous, I really hope development continues as planned and a release is later extended to Real Solar System!

[Deddly]

2 hours ago, Gameslinx said:

Those bumps that you see do actually exist, but they can't be collided with. Collision detection is very, very expensive! I might work on very basic collisions in the future, but for now your wheels may pass through some of the material and behave like they normally would

Thanks for the info. I suppose in lieu of actual colliders, we can "RP" our rovers around the harshest terrain, much like some of us do with ground scatter

[mcwaffles2003]

Are all these surfaces hand made or generated? If generated is it procedurally done on the fly?

On 9/20/2020 at 1:22 PM, Gameslinx said:

As for system requirements, the trailer was recorded using the following specs:

• Intel i9 9900k, 5.0Ghz
• RTX 2080 Super
• 32GB DDR4

*prays 4.3Ghz is enough*

Is this CPU intensive or does my GPU finally have something to do?

This looks beautiful... the waves crashing over rocks... the rocks all scattered in genuinely natural patterns of size and shape and distribution... cliff faces with strata!? Rocks and clutter forming in the pits of a system of what look like roots... while water lays at the low spots of a very flat  surface looking like it just rained?!?!

[Gameslinx]

2 minutes ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

Are all these surfaces hand made or generated? If generated is it procedurally done on the fly?

*prays 4.3Ghz is enough*

Is this CPU intensive or does my GPU finally have something to do?

This looks beautiful... the waves crashing over rocks... the rocks all scattered in genuinely natural patterns of size and shape and distribution... cliff faces with strata!? Rocks and clutter forming in the pits of a system of what look like roots... while water lays at the low spots of a very flat  surface looking like it just rained?!?!

Your CPU will breathe a sigh of relief. Your GPU will have something to do that isn't just "Scatterer" any more  

As an estimate, I did a test with a few friends yesterday. On a GTX 1060, and shader settings maxed out, he was averaging 30-60fps with the other visual mods installed. I'd say that's a success  

Edited September 22, 2020 by Gameslinx

[linuxgurugamer]

On 9/20/2020 at 1:22 PM, Gameslinx said:

As for system requirements, the trailer was recorded using the following specs:

• Intel i9 9900k, 5.0Ghz
• RTX 2080 Super
• 32GB DDR4

Similar to mine, I have an i9 9900k, 64 gig DDR5(??) and an RTX 2070

I'm currently in a stock playthrough, would be happy to drop this in for testing, in fact, even while streaming

[mcwaffles2003]

2 minutes ago, Gameslinx said:

Your CPU will breathe a sigh of relief. Your GPU will have something to do that isn't just "Scatterer" any more  

As an estimate, I did a test with a few friends yesterday. On a GTX 1060, and shader settings maxed out, he was averaging 30-60fps with the other visual mods installed. I'd say that's a success  

This is proof that getting a 1080 ti wasn't a waste :D...

What resolution were you playing at?

Also, just read this:

On 9/20/2020 at 1:22 PM, Gameslinx said:

Parallax will first be released for my planet pack 'Beyond Home' during its beta stage so that I can spend time working on fixing any bugs and working on improvements / optimizations before the mod is used elsewhere. After the beta stage, Parallax will be available for any planet configuration.

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa O_O