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Show and Tell - Jool Flyby


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5 hours ago, The Aziz said:

Soo crispy!

Also, xenon probe? This far from Kerbol? With tiny panels? I can only read that as confirmation of xenon being extractable from the atmosphere.

I'm rather convinced I've seen some sort of colony parts dedicated to it, or it was said in an interview about what colonies do, and xenon was definitely brought up.

Going to do a quick look at older promo material.

Edit:  That was probably the fastest I've ever googled something.

 

 

Edited by Defenestrator47
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It was confirmed that there would be xenon fuel factories for colonies, though considering the fact that we have seen many orbital colonies for interstellar ships around jool I think its fair to say there's a fuel advantage for building around Jool. That being said that advantage could be as simple as Vall is rich in helium 3, however it could also mean that there is some sort of atmospheric fuel scooping in the game as well. Nothing we have seen explicitly states that fuel factories wont be something that you can do on all planets, however I doubt this will be the case as it seems like a pretty big missed gameplay mechanic and also most of the stuff we have seen when it comes to fuel production was two years ago and more recent colony pictures have shown different fuel factory variants that weren't shown in the first picture releases.

Edited by Strawberry
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1 hour ago, Alexoff said:

There is something wrong with a marketing campaign if it creates confusion among some potential buyers. The planets have been shown to us since 2019, the clouds were shown for the first time in the spring of 2021. Well, we realized that there are clouds in the game, won't the developers continue to show us clouds of a different color over other planets once a month? There are six months left before the release, the game has been developed since 2017, that is, the game should be 80-90% ready. Why doesn't the wheel tester make a short video of the rover and show it to us? It seems we have never been shown rovers or anything with wheels. Why wouldn't someone who tests robotic parts show some actuator in action? Maybe someone will fly up to the sun and show a beautiful prominence? Or maybe someone will show how kerbals will now work in laboratories and we will be able to control them? How long will it take to shoot such a video? I think 10 minutes, maybe 20. But for some reason, here on our forum, many people believe that somewhere in the distance there is Russell's teapot extraordinary things or satellites in Jool's orbit that are not shown to us. Here are the new models of engines from the first part of the game, but the planets with clouds, and the rest we have to imagine for ourselves. And if you face the facts, the picture is not too rosy and looks more like the word "remaster with mods" than "2".

Everyone is pretty antsy for real disclosure of progress and meaningful gameplay footage at this point. Its a concern of mine as well that KSP2 may not be the quantum leap from heavily modded KSP1 that some hope for. 

As (the current) release window approaches (again), it does seem odd not to have more continuous footage. But really, we know what KSP gameplay loop is like already, and with exception of graphics or new features there isn't much to show. We won't gain much from watching a wobbly rocket go to orbit, and many would just wail that "gameplay is no different from the game I paid 7 dollars for" and storm out mad that little had changed.

We'll get what we get when we get it, and if we don't like it we can not buy it or mod it. But yes, I want to see more too. And I'm worried they may have overoptimized graphics for potatoes.

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1 hour ago, TLTay said:

not be the quantum leap from heavily modded KSP1 that some hope for. 

I think it’s also tough to compare because the modding scene keeps making quantum leaps of its own. 
If KSP2 came out at it’s original date, everyone’s minds would have been absolutely boggled by the volumetric clouds and awesome terrain, but when you compare to things which are (or nearly are) in the original game in the form of mods, I get that it doesn’t hit the same “wow” factor. 
Perhaps we’ve just been too spoiled by blackrack and Gameslinx :P

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6 hours ago, Ryaja said:

Now the real question is... How many Kerbals fit into jool?

so lets asume tha a kerbal is 0,75mx0,3mx0,3m that is about 0.0675 m3
jool is about 6000000meters in radius so that is 904 607 999 999 999 900 000 m3
so we divide that
then we get 1.34016e+22 and that means 13401600000000000000000

so that is 13 sextillion 401 quintillion 600 quadrillion kerbals


now you know how much kerbals fit in jool

Edited by CEO of China
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19 hours ago, Alexoff said:

And if you face the facts, the picture is not too rosy and looks more like the word "remaster with mods" than "2".

I would say this already looks quite a bit better than current visual mods, though on the nit-picky side Id love to see a bit more small-scale, non-collideable scatter than we see in the most recent screenshots—more fine grain pebbles and stones in the foreground that make the surface look more authentic but dont gum up traversal. 
 

To be honest though the visuals aren’t even what really interests me. The really exciting stuff is colonies and interstellar, crazy huge vessels and drive systems, things no mod has really held a candle to. We’ve seen a bit about interstellar travel and glimpses at new systems that seem really well considered, and the fact that they’re building the challenge of surmounting interstellar distances into progression is pretty awesome. 
 

If it were me I personally wouldn’t show the two most important systems—colonies and science—until I had the time to do a big deep dive on each and had things polished enough to answer questions about it. They’re kind of complete-thought elements that you don’t really want to dribble out piecemeal. 
 

Its true though we haven’t seen a few pretty basic things in a while—stage separation, reentry effects, wheels and rovers, etc. Do explosions look different at hypersonic speeds? Do wheels kick up dust and leave tracks? We’ll just have to see. 
 

 

Edited by Pthigrivi
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People are so focused on visuals that they're forgetting that these, as presented by KSP1 mods, can be added by others. Kind of. What cannot be done, is the improved performance, features that aren't present in KSP1 - or exist in mods but work only just, being still limited by KSP1 capabilities. 

There's the question on parallax being so often mentioned that it became boring. I noticed that there's a very jarring LOD difference sphere around the vessel, to keep the performance somewhat stable. Something that is not needed in the second game.

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15 hours ago, The Aziz said:

We're getting Dev diaries and S&T (and feature video rarely) interchangeably every month, since January. with one exception of May. Let's see if that keeps happening at the end of October with new Dev diary I guess.

The feature video schedule is once around every 5 months, so we may actually get one soon, there is also a a surge of new footage and news before one, so fingers crossed for October!

18 hours ago, Pthigrivi said:

Absolutely gorge. :wub: How deep can we go? 

If I had to make an educated Guess you could probably go into the clouds but not MUCH deeper, sort of like the Galileo probe.

NASA — Falling Into Jupiter

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7 hours ago, CEO of China said:

so lets asume tha a kerbal is 0,75mx0,3mx0,3m that is about 0.0675 m3
jool is about 6000000meters in radius so that is 904 607 999 999 999 900 000 m3
so we divide that
then we get 1.34016e+22 and that means 13401600000000000000000
so that is 13 sextillion 401 quintillion 600 quadrillion kerbals

Not to nitpick here but the forum software is  set up (unlike most implementations) to support superscript and things look just so much better with it:

The Jool volume is 904 607 999 999 999 900 000 m3
then we get 1.34016×1022 and that means 13 401 600 000 000 000 000 000

Note that I also prefer using the unicode multiplication sign × over an ordinary "x"

But more importantly you taught us that there's 13 sextillion (and a bit, if "401 quintillion" can be considered "a bit") that fit inside Jool. Thank you for that!

 

Edited by Kerbart
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20 hours ago, The Aziz said:

Soo crispy!

Also, xenon probe? This far from Kerbol? With tiny panels? I can only read that as confirmation of xenon being extractable from the atmosphere.

Using Tylo for a gravity assist to capture around Jool can also be possible.

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1 minute ago, Quoniam Kerman said:

Using Tylo for a gravity assist to capture around Jool can also be possible.

Sure. But any furthee maneuvers would need to be done at minimal thrust %. My last trip with a xenon engine around these parts, with two gigantor panels, required me to keep the engines below 14% thrust to avoid running out of power.

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5 hours ago, The Aziz said:

People are so focused on visuals that they're forgetting that these, as presented by KSP1 mods, can be added by others. Kind of. What cannot be done, is the improved performance, features that aren't present in KSP1 - or exist in mods but work only just, being still limited by KSP1 capabilities. 

There's the question on parallax being so often mentioned that it became boring. I noticed that there's a very jarring LOD difference sphere around the vessel, to keep the performance somewhat stable. Something that is not needed in the second game.

But we don't know anything about performance in KSP2! Will my 3070 be enough for such clouds? What will be the fps for a ship of a thousand parts with my 7700k? After all, the engine will not change, it is still unity, where only one core can process physics. Parallax is already there, we can see and touch it for free.

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2 minutes ago, darthgently said:

More evidence that Minmus originated in the Jool system 

If that's true, is every jool moon ice cream?
Laythe: Water to wash down the jool V ice cream tasting
Vall: Mint Ice cream, just like minmus
Tylo: Cookies and Cream ice cream
Bop: Chocolate ice cream
Pol: Maple Creemee 
 

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4 minutes ago, Rutabaga22 said:

If that's true, is every jool moon ice cream?
Laythe: Water to wash down the jool V ice cream tasting
Vall: Mint Ice cream, just like minmus
Tylo: Cookies and Cream ice cream
Bop: Chocolate ice cream
Pol: Maple Creemee 
 

Dres used to be a root beer float in the system prior to ejection.  Eventually, without Jool's gravitational churn, all the root beer froze leaving a cold, solid, brown sphere, while the chunks of ice cream were ejected into what is now the rings around Dres. 

All this would be true if Dres existed 

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14 hours ago, Alexoff said:

What will be the fps for a ship of a thousand parts with my 7700k? After all, the engine will not change, it is still unity, where only one core can process physics.

Unity, single core and part count.

As if that's all that there is determining performance.

 

As if people way more competent than me didn't spend hundred of words and pages of this forum trying to explain that no, things are not that simple.

 

But apparently for the sake of polarization and being controversial at all costs we all collectively have to pretend we don't have a memory.

3 Years from the announcements and here we are, with the same flawed arguments we had on the day the trailer launched.

 

14 hours ago, Alexoff said:

Parallax is already there

Unpopular opinion: Parallax just looks like Minecraft with a 4k texture pack slapped to it. The only things that does to me is highlighting the limits of KSP.

Edited by Master39
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2 hours ago, Master39 said:

Unity, single core and part count.

As if that's all that there is determining performance.

 

As if people way more competent than me didn't spend hundred of words and pages of this forum trying to explain that no, things are not that simple.

 

But apparently for the sake of polarization and being controversial at all points we all collectively have to pretend we don't have a memory.

3 Years from the announcements and here we are, with the same flawed arguments we had on the day the trailer launched.

 

Unpopular opinion: Parallax just looks like Minecraft with a 4k texture pack slapped to it. The only things that does to me is highlighting the limits of KSP.

for me the parallax mod, in terms of visual/gameplay enhancement is the end all of all mods..


It shows the full potential of what ksp has grown into over the 11 years and with sufficient hardware you are able to enjoy the "small details" even if it is showing the literal limit of what the game engine can do, things such as FPS, Collisions, Tires etc, it all shows in a small package, of the entire limit of ksp before we head off to ksp 2, people (like myself) have only really seen, and heard about what it would look like in ksp 2, we have seen the Mun far away and it looks like a masterpiece that took 1000's of man hours to produce, but then we get a post of the mun in alpha still that looks like still stock based ksp with very limited amount of ground scattering when we compare it to just scatter 2.0 which just as it stands it blows ksp 2 out of the water..

We haven't seen all the small details that on the ground for scattering for ksp 2 yet, we have only really seen the physical ground rework, the large scatter items rework, but not the small fine details that in the example of mun again, parallax 2.0 has almost nailed in realism of small rocks, bumps everywhere as "far as the eye can see", but cannot get that "soft dusty" look that real life has on our own moon, its still "flat" and undetailed even by the standards of stock ksp, its still flat as of now as what we have seen in ksp 1. We haven't seen PBR yet for the ground as we are still in "alpha" when in terms of "early 2023" can be as late as March 31st, which is 180 days left, unless they change how much more time they need which i really don't mind, if it needs more time give it more time

 

im not saying the visuals are bad, or that they are doing bad, im stating that in terms of how it looks, ksp 1, and ksp 2 look almost identical "on the ground".. when we look at the Kerbal Space Program 2 - Show and Tell Highlights #2 on the youtube channel, you see at a "close" distance it looks amazing within a degree of even graphical mods, but the standards of what we have seen in game from photos even if it is called "alpha" they are missing quite a bit of the finer details that hopefully will be shown soon:tm:...

 

I don't perfer, and i don't like saying "this game gotta be at least X mod good" if that was the case i would wanted NAPP resource pack running at 4k 60fps a long time ago on minecraft, its not my thing, but within a degree of seeing what we have seen and what we have got, there is gaps missing i cannot wait to see filled.

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Oh here we go again.

33 minutes ago, Stephensan said:

gameplay enhancement is the end all of all mods..

Making the planets pretty much undrivable. Yeah, great. Turn off the collisions though, and you're left only with visual obstacles that add nothing to gameplay.

36 minutes ago, Stephensan said:

then we get a post of the mun in alpha

Exactly, you said it. In alpha. You remember how KSP looked in alpha? With water being a hard surface and all? Moving on with the sentence..

38 minutes ago, Stephensan said:

very limited amount of ground scattering

90758772-580.jpg

Rockless regolith as far as the eye can see.

pia20316-main_take6dune.jpg

Sand dune. No rocks!

46 minutes ago, Stephensan said:

bumps everywhere as "far as the eye can see"

iBQX3Cg.jpeg

your bumps, that are by the way not made by the terrain itself because that still has rough edges and sudden changes in slope inclination, stop being rendered few hundred meters away from the camera.

54 minutes ago, Stephensan said:

still flat as of now as what we have seen in ksp 1.

Uhuh.

KoDqmDF.png

57 minutes ago, Stephensan said:

as we are still in "alpha" when in terms of "early 2023" can be as late as March 31st

Oh this again, can't be bothered to respond to this, AGAIN. Next!

59 minutes ago, Stephensan said:

im not saying the visuals are bad

Oh yes you are, your whole post screams that.

1 hour ago, Stephensan said:

in terms of how it looks, ksp 1, and ksp 2 look almost identical "on the ground"

See above.

1 hour ago, Stephensan said:

i don't like saying "this game gotta be at least X mod good"[...]

for me the parallax mod [...]

we compare it to just scatter 2.0[...]

parallax 2.0 has almost nailed in realism of small rocks[...]

Yeah you do. All you and many other people very much like to compare KSP2 to modded KSP1, and I wonder, if it doesn't look like your beloved mods, are you even going to buy it? Because it looks like no.

KSP2 devs wouldn't, and shouldn't compare their game to mods, ever. That just creates more problems than solutions. You can, but stop demanding that the game looks better than other modded game.

By the way, what any of this has anything to do with Jool?

Get a room and make your own thread for complaints.

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