Space Agency’s of the World

[Kerbalsaurus]

I’ve always wondered, how many space agencies are there in the world? We all know Russia has one, the EU has one, China has one (they’ve advanced a lot for 20 years) and I think America has one I’m not sure… but there has to be more. There’s so much junk in orbit that 4 agencies can’t possibly do all that.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Kerbalsaurus

[intelliCom]

13 hours ago, Kerbalsaurus said:

I’ve always wondered, how many space agencies are there in the world? We all know Russia has one, the EU has one, China has one (they’ve advanced a lot for 20 years) and I think America has one I’m not sure… but there has to be more. There’s so much junk in orbit that 4 agencies can’t possibly do all that.

ULA, SpaceX, India also deserve mentioning. But the point on the amount of space junk is a valid one. I suspect a decent amount of it is probably the US and Russia during the cold war.

[DDE]

5 minutes ago, intelliCom said:

SpaceX

And this is where it starts to get interesting. Namely, I start asking for definitions.

6 minutes ago, intelliCom said:

I suspect a decent amount of it is probably the US and Russia during the cold war.

Most of it is the product of the Chinese medium-orbit ASAT test. Russia's Nudol show-off last year was in a lower orbit and with a far lower impact velocity.

[SunlitZelkova]

14 hours ago, Kerbalsaurus said:

I’ve always wondered, how many space agencies are there in the world? We all know Russia has one, the EU has one, China has one (they’ve advanced a lot for 20 years) and I think America has one I’m not sure… but there has to be more. There’s so much junk in orbit that 4 agencies can’t possibly do all that.

Actually, I think it is safe to assume every country has a space agency nowadays. Having a space agency does not require building your own rockets or even satellites, just doing space science.

Here’s the website of the Kenya Space Agency- https://ksa.go.ke/

[darthgently]

9 minutes ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Actually, I think it is safe to assume every country has a space agency nowadays. Having a space agency does not require building your own rockets or even satellites, just doing space science.

Here’s the website of the Kenya Space Agency- https://ksa.go.ke/

I could easily imagine a Jamaican Space Bobsled Agency. 

More seriously, if limited to home launch capable nations the number would be interesting.  There is JAXA in Japan, India, and of course, the Duchy of Grand Fenwick.

[SunlitZelkova]

9 minutes ago, darthgently said:

the Duchy of Grand Fenwick

[SunlitZelkova]

7 hours ago, darthgently said:

More seriously, if limited to home launch capable nations the number would be interesting.  There is JAXA in Japan, India, and of course, the Duchy of Grand Fenwick.

1. Russia (State Space Corporation «Roscosmos»)*

2. United States (National Aeronautics and Space Administration)

3. France (National Center for Space Studies)

4. Japan (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency)

5. China (China National Space Administration)

6. India (Indian Space Research Organization)

7. Israel (Israeli Space Agency)

8. Iran (Iranian Space Agency)

9. North Korea (National Aerospace Development Administration)

10. South Korea (Korea Aerospace Research Institute)

*Only for launches from Plesetsk and Vostochny

Source- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_first_orbital_launches_by_country

ESA’s space center is in an overseas territory and thus would not count. France and Britain conducted their launches in Algeria and Australia, respectively, and thus these don’t count as “home” launches. Surprisingly, Russia’s launches from Baikonur don’t count because they are in Kazakhstan. Ukraine needed a sea launch platform, and thus this also would not count as “home”.

New Zealand is questionable as to whether it has its own launch capability as Rocket Lab is an American company.

“Launch capability” in this instance refers to orbital launch capability.

EDIT- List updated. France would count but ESA would not, as its spacecraft technically encompass multiple nations yet launch from the Guiana Space Center alone.

Edited December 3, 2022 by SunlitZelkova

[Beamer]

Wiki has a helpful list. I like the Czech attitude, their space agency is just a department of their Ministry of Transport. Like, space, it's just another destination man. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_government_space_agencies

15 hours ago, Kerbalsaurus said:

There’s so much junk in orbit that 4 agencies can’t possibly do all that.

I think you can pretty much follow the Pareto Principle there. 80% of the trash is from 20% of the countries who ever launched anything into orbit.

 

5 minutes ago, SunlitZelkova said:

ESA’s space center is in an overseas territory and thus would not count.

French Guiana is part of France.

 

[tater]

This includes all launches paid for, plus agency space spending (NASA, NOAA, NRO, USAF, etc).

Slightly old from 2018, NASA budget is now ~$29B, and wiki says CNSA in 2020 was ~$9B, ESA this year was ~$7.6B, so I have no idea how accurate the below chart is, but NASA is ~3X CNSA.

 

 

Looking at the first chart, the entire world's government expense on space—civil space agencies, plus military—combined—is about the same as the NASA budget.

Edited December 3, 2022 by tater

[Beamer]

4 hours ago, tater said:

ESA this year was ~$7.6B

Just over a week ago they announced an increase of 17% for the coming 3 years, compared to the 2019-2022 budget: https://spaceref.com/science-and-exploration/ministers-back-esas-bold-ambitions-for-space-with-a-record-17-budget-rise/

 

[tater]

Large US cities have a public school budget that exceeds the NASA budget as a reality check. Small US cities have public school budgets that exceed the total contribution of many EU countries on ESA.

The total budget of NYC is ~$101B, of which $38B is the public school system.

The total budget of Berlin seems to be just shy of ~$35B. This suggests their school budget is probably ~$14B if similar to NYC as a %.

It's shockingly hard to find out what European cities spend on primary education. US budgets are literally online, I can comb through what they specifically spend on, lol.

It doesn't seem like a lot to ask for most countries to spend a little less than one of their most populous cities spends on primary education.

[SunlitZelkova]

11 minutes ago, tater said:

Large US cities have a public school budget that exceeds the NASA budget as a reality check. Small US cities have public school budgets that exceed the total contribution of many EU countries on ESA.

The total budget of NYC is ~$101B, of which $38B is the public school system.

The total budget of Berlin seems to be just shy of ~$35B. This suggests their school budget is probably ~$14B if similar to NYC as a %.

It's shockingly hard to find out what European cities spend on primary education. US budgets are literally online, I can comb through what they specifically spend on, lol.

It doesn't seem like a lot to ask for most countries to spend a little less than one of their most populous cities spends on primary education.

In Portland, Oregon, a new homeless shelter program is nearly on par with the NASA budget, shy by just $2 billion lol.

[tater]

1 minute ago, SunlitZelkova said:

In Portland, Oregon, a new homeless shelter program is nearly on par with the NASA budget, shy by just $2 billion lol.

That's gotta be off, their total city budget is ~$5.89B

And NASA's budget approaches $30B

[Beamer]

4 hours ago, tater said:

It's shockingly hard to find out what European cities spend on primary education. US budgets are literally online, I can comb through what they specifically spend on, lol.

Education is typically a state matter in European countries, not a city matter, so it's hard to find a 'by city' table anywhere. You'd probably have to find a 'by school' table and tally it from there. Furthermore, education is a national matter, not a EU matter, so you'll have to go to the state website of each country separately to find their budgets, unless you can find some sort of 3rd party aggregator. Here's where I would find it for my country: https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/cijfers/detail/84122NED

20B on education. Most populous city is Amsterdam with 900K which is about 5% of the national population.

Space on the other hand, at least when talking about ESA, is a EU matter, so things get complicated. 64% of the budget comes from direct contributions from member states, however something like 28% comes from the EU itself, which of course pays it with contributions from the member states to that institution. Here's some fancy pie charts of the various contributions that make up the ESA budget: https://www.esa.int/About_Us/Corporate_news/Funding  I think the determination of how much each member state contributes, aside from economical position, depends a lot on where the work on the hardware is done. So not all that different from America's Pork Powered Rocket I guess, if it generates jobs or keeps existing industry afloat, countries are willing to make a bigger contribution.

Edit: all numbers in Euros of course

Edit 2: According to this table, government expenditure on just primary education institutions (including pre-primary which I think is 4-5 year olds) is 12.5B, which works out to 8.5K per child: https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/cijfers/detail/80393ned

 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Beamer

[SunlitZelkova]

8 hours ago, tater said:

That's gotta be off, their total city budget is ~$5.89B

And NASA's budget approaches $30B

Yep. It was $27 million. *facepalm*

[tater]

14 hours ago, Beamer said:

Edit 2: According to this table, government expenditure on just primary education institutions (including pre-primary which I think is 4-5 year olds) is 12.5B, which works out to 8.5K per child: https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/cijfers/detail/80393ned

For a pop of ~17.5M, so less than NYC (which I think is over 25k/kid).

Bottom line is that for every ~12M people, it's not much of an ask to spend ~$1B on a civil space program.

[Beamer]

2 hours ago, tater said:

For a pop of ~17.5M, so less than NYC (which I think is over 25k/kid).

Bottom line is that for every ~12M people, it's not much of an ask to spend ~$1B on a civil space program.

You're forgetting that the various member states also have their own space programs and industry (which don't just work for ESA). Furthermore, NYC needs a lesson in efficiency because that's so horribly excessive I can't image that not at least half of that goes in pockets that have nothing to do with education.

It's really hard to compare the way the US government spends their money to that of most European countries. The vast differences in defense on the US side and public healthcare on the EU side alone make such a comparison look weird no matter which way you look at it. In the end a space program is an 'extra', something you do after all the necessities have been paid, and the USA and EU have very different ideas about what counts as necessities.

 

[steve9728]

On 12/3/2022 at 10:38 PM, SunlitZelkova said:

Actually, I think it is safe to assume every country has a space agency nowadays.

Philippines: PhilSA

Vietnam: VNSC

Malaysia: MYSA

Thailand: GISTDA

Indonesian: INASA/LAPAN

Brunei: ANGKASA-X/BurneiSpace (Wiki said they have this but I can't found them official website)

Myanmar: Myanmar Aeronautics and Space Agency (But it's empty)

Singapore: SSTL (but it's a non-government space organization)/CRISP (wiki said they have it, but I can't open the link)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_government_space_agencies 

Some countries that are not as developed now but have an immediate need for satellites. So, some of them will come to other country to find some satellite service. And CNSA's satellite services are basically a "turnkey delivery": you present your needs and budget, CNSA design and build the satellite for you, then put it in orbit and hand over full control of the satellites to the country concerned. So, the question arises: Is Lao Asia Pacific Satellite Company Limited (LAOSAT) considered a government space agency?

[darthgently]

On 12/3/2022 at 10:29 AM, SunlitZelkova said:

9. North Korea (National Aerospace Development Administration)

Have they achieved orbit?  Last I was aware they could barely get a missile into Japan range.  But I haven't been paying much attention to that little tyranny the last few years

[steve9728]

2 hours ago, darthgently said:

Have they achieved orbit?  Last I was aware they could barely get a missile into Japan range.  But I haven't been paying much attention to that little tyranny the last few years

 

Just like my first time playing Kerbal. But however, the North Korean has put a (or some I can't remember) camera on the missile. Pretty weird they never pick the end of the missile dropped back to see the relevant data.

[SunlitZelkova]

6 hours ago, darthgently said:

Have they achieved orbit?  Last I was aware they could barely get a missile into Japan range.  But I haven't been paying much attention to that little tyranny the last few years

Yes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwangmyŏngsŏng-3_Unit_2

4 hours ago, steve9728 said:

Pretty weird they never pick the end of the missile dropped back to see the relevant data.

They may not have the confidence in their shipbuilding industry to build the proper tracking and recovery ships.

[Kerbalsaurus]

Looking at New York’s budget, they could theoretically start a space program if they wanted to.

[tater]

4 hours ago, Kerbalsaurus said:

Looking at New York’s budget, they could theoretically start a space program if they wanted to.

The GDP of Russia is slightly higher than the GDP of NY.

 

[DDE]

4 hours ago, Kerbalsaurus said:

Looking at New York’s budget, they could theoretically start a space program if they wanted to.

 

14 minutes ago, tater said:

The GDP of Russia is slightly higher than the GDP of NY.

Yes, but how much of that is "government-disposable"? Comparisons based on GDP are a little funny like that, especially when it comes to jusrisdictions where "tax-mobile" transnational businesses may be parked...

[tater]

18 minutes ago, DDE said:

 

Yes, but how much of that is "government-disposable"? Comparisons based on GDP are a little funny like that, especially when it comes to jusrisdictions where "tax-mobile" transnational businesses may be parked...

What is the budget of Russia (government)? The Budget of the State of NY is ~$220B.