Scratch programming language

[shdwlrd]

4 hours ago, Kerbart said:

I'm under the impression that Minecraft allows scripts, on both xbox and playstation

On 6/28/2022 at 7:47 PM, shdwlrd said:

As I'm not familiar with Minecraft's scripting, I won't comment on that.

See above... I don't play Minecraft, so I don't know.

[t_v]

I think the way Microsoft and Sony define “3rd party script” involves the script running on the Xbox itself, not encapsulated by the game in a way such that the script cannot affect the rest of the Xbox. Therefore, an internal scripting system like Lua that can be made to not have implications beyond the game is allowed in Xbox and PlayStation titles. 

[shdwlrd]

3 hours ago, t_v said:

I think the way Microsoft and Sony define “3rd party script” involves the script running on the Xbox itself, not encapsulated by the game in a way such that the script cannot affect the rest of the Xbox. Therefore, an internal scripting system like Lua that can be made to not have implications beyond the game is allowed in Xbox and PlayStation titles. 

I think it may go beyond that. I think the scripts can't even change the games base behavior, or read or write from the games memory either.

Looking at what mods have been historically allowed on consoles, assets only, and not anything that can change the games behavior. I think that would extend to the scripts too. 

[DareDrop]

Scratch programming language where you can create your own scripts for rockets. My son loves this in Simple Rockets and got me using also.

[Kerbart]

How well does it work? I always feel that the process ("algorithm") is the hard part, and that it's just visualizing (and some will even call that a stretch as all the pieces have the same shape) code. Of course I learned BASIC when I was 10 and my mind was flexible as wax, and I didn't have any options if I wanted to program.

Does it really help in making programming easier (for kids)? Or is it not ease, but more the task of "physically" building your code instead of writing it?

[DareDrop]

I think it depends on what kind of learner you are, some kids are visual learners and it helps them a lot.  I learned BASIC when I was young also but my teacher required we flowchart everything at frist and that also helps.

[Fluke]

49 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

Does it really help in making programming easier (for kids)? Or is it not ease, but more the task of "physically" building your code instead of writing it?

I can only speak from a robotics standpoint, but being able to drag and drop complex commands graphically (the software already knowing how the statements need to end) then filling in the easy parts is far easier than memorizing and building the program structure by typing out everything and using auto-complete/suggestions on simpler commands.

[DareDrop]

See Scott Manley take on it, vid  time 5:30.

 

[Fluke]

7 minutes ago, DareDrop said:

See Scott Manley take on it, vid  time 5:30.

 

You'll laugh at how identical this is. 

https://youtu.be/KduqW6EQ67E

[DareDrop]

Indeed it is, lol. I came across it the first time on a Raspberry Pi. Was lots of fun.

[Fluke]

Learn something new everday! I bench test things on arduino all the time, after your post i googled it and relized there is an interface for that. I'll do that at work tomorrow, thanks!

/Last off topic post. Haha

[DareDrop]

NP enjoy. I do a lot of that sort of thing, also 3D printing and CNC. No time for everything thou. 

[jastrone]

9 hours ago, Kerbart said:

Does it really help in making programming easier (for kids)? Or is it not ease, but more the task of "physically" building your code instead of writing it?

well yes you dont have to know the coding language and block code never gives you errors it wont let you do a mistake so yhea its easier.

[Joker58th]

I agree, the Scratch (Vizzy) interface would be a nice on boarding option for non-developer types such as myself.  I have tinkered with kOS over the years here and there and really enjoyed learning what I could do with it.  I picked up Simple Rockets again now that it has career mode (while I'm waiting for KSP2) and discovered Vizzy and enjoyed learning some automation with that too.

[Redstoner89]

On 4/13/2022 at 11:22 AM, MStefan99 said:

Hi,

 

I know this might be somewhat controversial, but please hear me out first.

I love automating things. I spent hundreds of hours in games like Factorio and Dyson Sphere Program and I have also tried to automate different things in KSP 1. As an example, automation is great for things that need to be perfectly repeatable (like an ascent with a specific profile) or that are hard to do manually (like suicide burns). The best way to script it in KSP 1 right now is to use kOS but I think there might be a better option. While waiting for KSP 2 I decided to try SimpleRockets 2 (by the way, it's a cool game, go try it out). So I opened the game, downloaded a cool-looking Atlas V and was blown away by what happened next. The rocket knew how to put its upper stage into orbit not just around its home planed but also its moons at a desired altitude! Turns out, SR2 has a built-in visual scripting language called Vizzy you can use to write programs like that. I decided to try it out and just in a few hours I had two programs for performing ascent and landing for me. Here's how the language looks:

SR2 blog post about Vizzy.

This could also be used to complement new tutorials by showing not just a video but an actual rocket flown by a computer to teach new players. And yes, all this can (and has) been done before but I find the experience of using something like kOS far from perfect: you need to install the mod, learn a new scripting language, constantly switch to an external text editor, launch scripts from the command line and debugging is often a pain. If implemented correctly, built-in scripting can improve the player's experience, especially if scripts could be shared through the Steam Workshop for those who don't want to code themselves. And hey, it's not a bad thing either if someone learns how to code a bit while playing KSP 2! And the good thing is, you don't have to reinvent the wheel. This has already been done in SR2 and it works great there.

So what do you think?

I love the idea of adding a visual language since that would appeal to a younger audience, however, I feel like also having something more professional like Python would be awesome for nerds like me . Python is also used in real SpaceX rockets (from what I've read)
In short: Visual scripting would interest a younger audience and beginners to scripting, so if Python was implemented with it an older audience and people into scripting would also be interested. That way, besides rocket science, scripting would be a skill that you can learn inside of KSP.
So if you don't like or prefer visual scripting, you can use normal scripting.

I haven't read all of the comments, but I would implement scripting:

There are storage drives that can store a certain amount of "data" (written code) before their capacity is full. They would be similar to the batteries in the way they look (just like a storage drive thingy). This could be implemented in order to stop people just downloading code from others to, well, not "play" the game at all. The storage drive that would be at the end of the R&D tree could store infinite data. You can only write code in a storage drive (and/or small amounts of data in probes).

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by Redstoner89

[LHACK4142]

On 2/15/2023 at 2:45 PM, Kerbart said:

How well does it work? I always feel that the process ("algorithm") is the hard part, and that it's just visualizing (and some will even call that a stretch as all the pieces have the same shape) code. Of course I learned BASIC when I was 10 and my mind was flexible as wax, and I didn't have any options if I wanted to program.

Does it really help in making programming easier (for kids)? Or is it not ease, but more the task of "physically" building your code instead of writing it?

I think that visual languages do help in making things easier. system.out.println("Hello World!") will not run in Java, and it's really hard to tell why ("system" has to be capitalised, and a semicolon is missing). In fact, I nearly didn't learn coding at all because I kept running into that type of error. Visual languages, on the other hand, make everything like that much clearer.

I do really hope that there's some kind of scripting ability in KSP2. Programming actual physical things is so much fun, much more fun than programming some application IMO, and it'd be awesome to bring that experience to people who may not have done so.

[TheOtherDave]

If it’s not just going to be an “official” reimplementation of kRPC, I vote for Python since it already has so many scientific libraries.

[SkyFall2489]

An existing lanugage is good because people know it already. However, a custom language can be better fitted to rocket science and/or easier to learn. However, because of how deep the CS rabbit hole goes, I'd prefer just plain old Python or something really simple and basic.