Kerbal Space Suit Progression

[BowlerHatGuy3]

Any and all spacesuits for Kerbals in KSP were always cosmetic. As long as you had a spacesuit, you could go anywhere in the Kerbol System with no problems. The Breaking Ground DLC added a little bit more gameplay to it but little else. But what if there was more?

My idea for spacesuit progression in KSP2 works like this. You start out with essentially an old, decrepit, extremely depressing space suit that doesn't really do anything other than shield your Kerbal from the vacuum of space. You have no jetpack to move around, and rather have to attach many ladders and bars so that your Kerbal can maneuver their way around the craft. Your Kerbal has a tether attached to them, so you can only go so far (it would be nice to be able to pull yourself back to the craft using the tether in case your Kerbal starts to float away).  The more science and resources you get, the more base space suits and extensions you unlock. Over the course of the game, you might unlock a general space suit, a high-pressure suit for thick atmospheres, a G force suit that let's Kerbals experience higher Gs before blacking out, a high mobility suit that lets your Kerbal walk/run faster on surfaces etc. You would also unlock extensions that increase a space suit's functionality.  Depending on where they're going, you could give your Kerbal headlights, a larger EVA pack that makes them more mobile in vacuum, climbing gear that lets them climb much steeper surfaces, or even robotic arms that lets them do science on the go.

To stop players from create these weird frankenstein mech suits that can do anything, suits would have a maximum weight and be limited to one per Kerbal. This would force the player to make unique suits for every mission that they go on, which would aid in the realism department since that's what NASA and other irl space agencies do. What do you guys think?

 

 

[pandaman]

I think the idea has merit.  But rather than needing to design suits I'd prefer a more straightforward 'unlock tech' kind of approach that makes different categories of suit available, each with their own mass, but you can choose how many  to take along.

E.g.

Type A is a simple EVA spacewalk suit. Probably 'standard issue' to all crew as a survival suit.

Type B is suitable for use on say Mun/Minmus surfaces. 

Type C for more hostile environments and atmospheres (Eve/Duna).

Type  D for high pressure environments such as underwater or Jool Diving etc.

The EVA jetpack (and Kerbal parachute options) would be an optional add-on.

 

[Dantheollie]

This would be really cool! I always found it strange that the standard Kerbal space suit was able to withstand everything, from the sulfuric rain of EVE to the depths of Kerbin's seas

[BowlerHatGuy3]

2 hours ago, pandaman said:

I think the idea has merit.  But rather than needing to design suits I'd prefer a more straightforward 'unlock tech' kind of approach that makes different categories of suit available, each with their own mass, but you can choose how many  to take along.

E.g.

Type A is a simple EVA spacewalk suit. Probably 'standard issue' to all crew as a survival suit.

Type B is suitable for use on say Mun/Minmus surfaces. 

Type C for more hostile environments and atmospheres (Eve/Duna).

Type  D for high pressure environments such as underwater or Jool Diving etc.

The EVA jetpack (and Kerbal parachute options) would be an optional add-on.

 

A more straightforward system would definitely work. But what would happen once you unlock all've the types? Early game it could be interesting but soon enough it could just become something akin to checking your staging or a gimmick rather than something you'd actually need to think about.

[pandaman]

1 hour ago, BowlerHatGuy3 said:

A more straightforward system would definitely work. But what would happen once you unlock all've the types? Early game it could be interesting but soon enough it could just become something akin to checking your staging or a gimmick rather than something you'd actually need to think about.

You would need to think about  what types and quantities of each suit to bring depending on your mission plan.   Only those going down to walk on the surface would need the relevant specialised suits.  

Not every ISS crew member has a full 'spacewalk' suit.   The CM pilot staying in Lunar orbit didn't have the Lunar surface EVA suit.  Why carry the additional  weight?

I don't think you need to allocate suits to specific individuals, that gets fiddly.  But if only one suit is carried then only one crew can use it at a time. 

Different suits would be 'designed' for different environments, such as extra heat resistant ones for Rask and Rusk etc.  

Edited April 2, 2023 by pandaman

[Bej Kerman]

Is this really necessary? I mean, the atmospheric composition of capsules is really important in space, but configuring what kinds of spacesuits you wear and how you balance the chemicals in the atmosphere isn't exactly KSP gameplay, is it? I mean, it doesn't need to be any more complicated than "has spacesuit, can survive in space", right? This is just lending depth to a corner of gameplay nobody cared about until someone mentioned it, that is what I am getting at

[Dantheollie]

32 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

This is just lending depth to a corner of gameplay nobody cared about until someone mentioned it, that is what I am getting at

I agree that it would be annoying to have a billion different spacesuits for a billion different things, and have to micromanage them all. 

But do I think special suits for the Kerbals would be cool. A small selection of suits that would allow Kerbals to EVA on places where they shouldn't be able to. A suit to withstand extreme pressures, a suit to traverse the surface of an incredibly hot Moho and Eve... Nothing too complicated of course. With the addition of exoplanets in KSP2, who knows what hazardous conditions we might get!

 

[Strawberry]

Requiring to equip this specific suit if you want to do a specific mission seems micromanagey for no benefit. Not to mention, you add an additional science tax to planets because now not only do you need to unlock good enough parts to get there, you need to unlock this specific suit to even consider a manned mission which seems blegh. I do think the idea of unlocking new suits has merits, but Id rather it be focused on providing upgrades instead of downsides. Stuff like a suit that has much more delta v, or a high thrust spacesuit for high g enviroments. 

[Bej Kerman]

1 hour ago, Dantheollie said:

I agree that it would be annoying to have a billion different spacesuits for a billion different things, and have to micromanage them all. 
But do I think special suits for the Kerbals would be cool. A small selection of suits that would allow Kerbals to EVA on places where they shouldn't be able to. A suit to withstand extreme pressures, a suit to traverse the surface of an incredibly hot Moho and Eve... Nothing too complicated of course. With the addition of exoplanets in KSP2, who knows what hazardous conditions we might get!

What strawberry said. Needing specialised kit to go to really specific places is a small, tiny extra layer of tedium that does not benefit gameplay. One suit for all situations works, and you probably shouldn't fix something that isn't broken.

[Kerbart]

flight suits - no eva. Worn by early crews and tourists; explains why you can't do EVA's early in campaign mode.

early eva suits - can withstand the perils of space, but it's bulk and mass makes it unsuitable for surface excursions

surface eva suits - allows surface eva's

hardened suits - extra radiation protection, needed for eva's around Jool

[Bej Kerman]

19 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

flight suits - no eva. Worn by early crews and tourists; explains why you can't do EVA's early in campaign mode.

early eva suits - can withstand the perils of space, but it's bulk and mass makes it unsuitable for surface excursions

surface eva suits - allows surface eva's

hardened suits - extra radiation protection, needed for eva's around Jool

That just loops back to what we were just saying, doesn't it?

[pandaman]

I wouldn't want to see a wide variety of different suits, but 1 (or maybe 2) additional, non standard issue, 'Tuff Kookie'  suits for  EVAs in harsher environments could make sense. 

If you try to get out of the ship in the wrong one you get a warning similar to the KSP1 'helmet removal' message.

[Lyneira]

I could see some additional suit complexity being justified if extreme temperatures (sunlit side of Moho as an example) or pressures (Eve, deep underwater) get additional depth on the shipbuilding layer as well. Or if a new suit type came with notable capability upgrades such as heatshield & parachute for atmospheric re-entry, improved jetpack or EVA welding and construction.

But thinking of such features, it almost sounds like it would require building... a new suit around our kerbal for these types of features. I'll call it an exosuit for now. Maybe instead of introducing new suits, we could have exosuit parts to allow the player to build exosuits unique to a mission that function just like vehicles. There's definitely a big gap to fill in the niche of lightweight parts for single kerbals to use while on EVA. Inspired by the Suitport, a RL alternative to an airlock to keeping moon- and marsdust out of a base interior, an exosuit would be attached to a ship on the outside via an exosuit port and function like an airlock that Kerbals would get into to pilot the exosuit.

Suitport image:

Spoiler

In conclusion I think I would prefer not to have a bunch of new suit types to manage separately, but I do see a niche for a range of exosuit parts that could fill the gap between a spaceship and a kerbal with just their basic spacesuit. I imagine people would find all sorts of fun uses for these too if they included fuel tanks and engines...

Edited April 3, 2023 by Lyneira

[Bej Kerman]

I've not yet seen anyone explain what was wrong with having one spacesuit for all situations.

[zeekzeek22]

I think the comments about "having to select suits is a bit of tedious micromanagement that doesn't significantly add to gameplay" hits home. But that does beg the question: did the Kerbal inventories in KSP1 add to gameplay? That was arguably micromanagey. So. What is the golden middle? I think a combination of blanket upgrades that occur when you upgrade the astronaut complex (no micromanagement) and inventory stull like KSP1 (micromanage your Kerbals' strengths if you want to but don't have to?). So, really just KSP1's system, just a bit more fleshed out and a micron more interesting. Just gotta thread the needle of "rewarding and fun for those who do it, unnecessary and inconsequential for those who don't"

That said, the micromanagement of Kerbal roles is allegedly going to play a bigger role in gameplay...perhaps it's just part of KSP2 to have some dial-up on the kerbonaut micromanagement. 

[pandaman]

6 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

I've not yet seen anyone explain what was wrong with having one spacesuit for all situations.

Nothing inherently wrong with it at all.  It's not a big deal either way for me, but it's not an illogical idea.

My 'take' on the suggestion for different suits was that  the 'standard' EVA suit is perfectly adequate for most situations, but some harsher environments may need something a bit more substantial.  And, due to cost and weight, it's just not practical, or desirable, to carry enough to equip all crew members for all missions with it.  So it's only provided for those missions, and crew, that will actually need it.

As a  gameplay example, you may need to carry one or two suits in the inventory to enable collecting samples from the edge of a lava flow.  Yes it's an extra 'thing' to think of, but the game is full of those details (ensure enough Fuel, Solar panels, Batteries, Heat shields, Comms capability  etc).

[Dantheollie]

7 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

I've not yet seen anyone explain what was wrong with having one spacesuit for all situations.

There is this very cool thing called "having different opinions"

Imagine if we set up spaces to discuss these things at our personal leisure, like say, a forum mate. Yeah, something like that    

[Superluminaut]

I'm not 100% on progressing the functionality of suits. Maybe...

However, it would be great to earn wings and other decorations for kerbals, promoting a player attachment to certain that they have flown many missions with, making the player want to preserve them even more.

Variations on suits would also be nice in multiplayer.

[DerkyJerkyWreaksHavoc]

On 4/3/2023 at 10:35 AM, Bej Kerman said:

I've not yet seen anyone explain what was wrong with having one spacesuit for all situations.

Well, in KSP2 as an open-universe, extra content is always welcome so limiting ourselves to just one spacesuit is kind of basic, although it should not have hundreds of options. At most maybe 3 to 5 different space suit types would be nice.

[Bej Kerman]

2 hours ago, DAFATRONALDO2007 IN SPACE said:

limiting ourselves to just one spacesuit is kind of basic

How? It's only the same anti-tedium as reducing the available chemical fuels to methalox and hydrogen, as opposed to RSS's ridiculous number of possible fuels for each engine.

2 hours ago, DAFATRONALDO2007 IN SPACE said:

At most maybe 3 to 5 different space suit types would be nice.

I'm assuming this is just for the sake of having several spacesuits, as opposed to making the game any more fun.

[zeekzeek22]

Well there's also the question of: do we want functionally different space suits, or just consmetically different space suits? End of the day I'd like it to add depth to gameplay without requiring the tedium...kindof like the thrust limiting on SRBs. Great depth for experts, totally ignorable for casual/beginners.

It's definitely a "tedium balance" question as to whether or not you want to create scenarios in destinations that require specific suits...I think it'd be better to have the suit differences not be required for gameplay...Like if there's something relating to resources: you can pick up resources with a regular suit, but you can pick up more, or faster, with a better suit. But is dialing a number (speed, quantity) an interesting enough purpose? Maybe the hazmat space suit gives unlimited time near lava, while a regular suit is limited time until the Kerbal bursts into a puff of flame.

Again, I like the idea of it being inventory slots...jetpack, heat suit, camera pod, jackhammer, science experiment. I'd be fine if the cosmetics of the suit changed with the contents of the inventory, even though it doesn't make realistic sense changing the whole suit appearance mid-EVA as you take something out of your Kerbal's inventory. That way it's a piece of gameplay you might discover purely for the cosmetics, but actually pay attention and use it for the bonuses.

[Lowi_Sace]

Just also having suits in the tech tree would be very cool. Due unlocking the tech tree suits will become more movable and lighter and get more cool functions.

Having suits more specialised for surounding would also be nice (suit for high radiation, temperatures, pressures etc). makes it a bit more chalanging for experienced players, because also have to think about taking the right spacesuits

 

I think this would be something for a dlc of update far in the future

[EvelynThe Dragon]

On 4/25/2023 at 1:08 PM, Lowi_Sace said:

Just also having suits in the tech tree would be very cool.

Do we even know if we are actually going to get a tech tree? One of the things I enjoy about KSP1 is challenging myself to progress as fast as possible by packing as much "science" into every mission I can.

But for now, I would like if we could turn the suit's lights on, deploy/retract a sun visor, and have parachutes. Being able to change colors or even suit appearances even without any function changes would be nice too. 

[Scarecrow71]

This idea seems like it would be more suited to being a mod as opposed to core gameplay.  And let me be clear in saying that I do not mean the idea doesn't have merit, because its a keen idea.  But I think it's a bit too niche to be core, so a mod makes more sense.  Well, to me at least.  YMMV.

[kspnerd122]

Perhaps Heat Resistant suits would be nice for exploring scorched worlds covered in seas of lava, along with suits that are capable of increasing mobility, Bipropellant jetpacks perhaps