Mohopeful

[Nicrose]

2 hours ago, Vanamonde said:

Is it your impression that a dev went rogue and snuck in a grid fin while no one was looking? 

Sadly I’m a glutton for punishment and keep coming back to the forums after saying I’m done and keep having more tags and I regrettably feel the need to respond. But this is not my impression exactly. Going rogue is a weird way of putting it considering I said they “allow” them to work on whatever they want. Also not sure why it was highlighted and boldened but okay. What I was trying to say was that rather than delegating tasks based on importance, it’s based off other criteria like what is easy or more fun/less unfun if that makes sense or not even being delegated at all and is more of a “pick your own adventure” type of thing or even “pick what you can do”. As a developer, we do find enjoyment in our work. Some things (like diving into a new system or algorithm like marching cubes or even making your own) tends to be way more fun than fixing a system you put in place that took weeks to make and so now you’re a little lost on some of the math you don’t fully understand. I get it because it happens to me but we, in the industry, always need to focus on the final product, not just what’s fun to do or easier in some cases. And im pretty sure I said this in the post but im not confident in that assessment but it’s what it looks like to me, someone who’s been in the field. Also I never said the grid fins were a result of that, honestly I feel like grid fins have been being worked on for a while but the physics took a while to tweak to feel right but because a lot of people want to make SpaceX replicas, it’s become higher priority to give players something extra to do, especially since the real rockets aren’t meant to do what you can’t do in KSP 2 yet. If anything I feel that the grid fins were the one thing pushed through production from higher ups and was actually delegated which would be even scarier than the situation you mentioned. But you can take it however you want I suppose, though I meant it how I said it originally and I hope this clears it up for you ❤️

Edited May 21, 2023 by Nicrose

[AtomicTech]

9 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

Hey, folks - I hate to have to put on my moderator hat, but kinda have to for just a moment. Long before I was a moderator, I, too was a regular forum player back when KSP (the original) was in 0.22. And believe me, there were tons of bugs, a lot like we are experiencing now in KSP2. Some of the bugs were downright funny and others were infuriating, often crashing the game to the desktop and corrupting the saved game file. Ah, yeah, those were the days.

KSP2 is no different. We all knew there would be bugs with KSP2 being in EA. And while you are free to disagree with one another, personally attacking one another is never the right thing to do. Also, being rude is also never a good thing. And while we are on the topic of those forum guidelines, those are still applicable on ANY and all parts of the forum. So, when any member of the moderation team does make a decision to merge threads or hide posts, the decision was not made in haste or without great thought. But we have an obligation to follow the rules of moderation we've been given. And as Forum Guideline 3.3 states:

So, with that, we have had to remove a few more posts from this thread.

Please continue to keep the discussion on the topic of the OP; do not toss out personal attacks, and please do not publicly discuss moderation actions taken by the moderation team.

Volunteer Moderator Appreciation Day!

[LoSBoL]

2 hours ago, darthgently said:

To be fair, with a serious enough issue, this is exactly what a big car manufacturer recall does (shuts down, or immediately corrects, production of the product line involved) if the company is smart anyway. Why keep stamping out broken cars with lawyer grab-handles mounted on them?

Ehm, no, recalls do not work that way, even with serious ones. The moment you hear about an issued recall there already had been; internal investigation, internal acknowledgement, creating processes, manufacturing of mending parts(mostly by external companies, which also needs agreements and preperartion), filling warehouses with those parts, prepping dealers, all before authorities get notified that a recall will be issued. Production lines do not stop and even deliveries of cars to dealers continue, only if it's a big safety issue with a new car that's at the dealer to be delivered to a customer that will be corrected by the dealer before the official recall is issued. Non serious recalls? Car gets delivered to you and you may wait for the official issued recall for it to get fixed. Broken cars do get stamped out.

Issuing a recall for a manufacturer is months work.

To take it back to anything that concerns fixing broken products, even games. It takes time, and most of the time with any broken product, you'll be in the dark when or even if it gets fixed.

Edited May 21, 2023 by LoSBoL

[LoSBoL]

3 hours ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Great question.  To digress slightly, I like it when questions come while this so they can generate good conversation. 

With that said, anything really would be better than what we have gotten.  In a perfect situation, we would at least get told what bugs they are working on instead of a generic "We are working in stuff".  At least that way we would know what bugs they are working on.  Alternatively- and this has been brought up multiple times now - a public bug tracker would be nice.  We honestly have no way of knowing what threads the devs have read, or what Discord posts, or what stuff we have sent through the bug report button.  We know they are dealing with bugs...but which ones?  I keep going back to the big ones that have been reported since day one, and we have heard nothing on them.  How are we supposed to have faith that they are being looked at when we simply don't know what they are doing?

To be fair, I am not looking for in depth code details on the bugs.  While some of us could understand it, it wouldn't do any good to get to that level of detail.  But a simple "Hey, we are looking at this bug that does this" would certainly go a long way.

The Trajectory bug is a game breaking bug, which prevents the game from being a game. I really don't get why there is so much uncertainty about getting it or other game breaking bugs to get fixed. To me it's simple, it needs to be fixed to become a product, so it's going to be fixed, they are working on it, there is no other way the can't be.

 

[DancZer]

12 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

Hey, folks - I hate to have to put on my moderator hat, but kinda have to for just a moment. Long before I was a moderator, I, too was a regular forum player back when KSP (the original) was in 0.22. And believe me, there were tons of bugs, a lot like we are experiencing now in KSP2. Some of the bugs were downright funny and others were infuriating, often crashing the game to the desktop and corrupting the saved game file. Ah, yeah, those were the days.

KSP2 is no different. We all knew there would be bugs with KSP2 being in EA. And while you are free to disagree with one another, personally attacking one another is never the right thing to do. Also, being rude is also never a good thing. And while we are on the topic of those forum guidelines, those are still applicable on ANY and all parts of the forum. So, when any member of the moderation team does make a decision to merge threads or hide posts, the decision was not made in haste or without great thought. But we have an obligation to follow the rules of moderation we've been given. And as Forum Guideline 3.3 states:

So, with that, we have had to remove a few more posts from this thread.

Please continue to keep the discussion on the topic of the OP; do not toss out personal attacks, and please do not publicly discuss moderation actions taken by the moderation team.

People tend to forget that KSP1 back then was different, because the community was different too. Now it is much better and we have players who joined to the KSP community when the game was more polished then in EA. Their expectation is different than those who travelled the journey of the KSP1 EA. We should be patient with the development. Forcing and making unnecessary noise is destructive. My strategy is taking  a break and play KSP1. When an update come for KSP2 I try it if I can enjoy it now or not. We have now two KSP we decide which one we want to play. New game needs a new foundation to be long term stable and scalable.  I follow many other EA games they more less has similar progress (eg. Arma Reforger, Son of the Forest, Satisfactory). The progress could vari on many things. If a game develop a platform, then the development is much slower (e.g. Arma Reforger). If the game could utilize the existing features of a base engine it progress faster (e.g. Son of the Forest). 
Our responsibility as a community in EA to provide valuable feedback for the development, so the game evolves to a game which we love and does not have feature which we don't need.

[Crabman]

Nestor just said there is just “a handful” of people capable of fixing orbital bugs and other things alike.

This is the answer. There are not enough people working in this game anymore, T2 already made their cuts so there is no hope anymore for this game unfortunately 

[DancZer]

Those are probably mathematicians. Fixing bug is not easy in some cases. If it is done wrong you could introduce a new bug. That could be a quality gate to let only some people to fix a specify bugs. 

[cfds]

15 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

Hey, folks - I hate to have to put on my moderator hat, but kinda have to for just a moment. Long before I was a moderator, I, too was a regular forum player back when KSP (the original) was in 0.22. And believe me, there were tons of bugs, a lot like we are experiencing now in KSP2. Some of the bugs were downright funny and others were infuriating, often crashing the game to the desktop and corrupting the saved game file. Ah, yeah, those were the days.

KSP2 is no different. We all knew there would be bugs with KSP2 being in EA.

So KSP2 is sold for $20 and developed by a small team of enthusiastic but inexperienced developers without the backing of a publisher?

[kdaviper]

7 hours ago, darthgently said:

To be fair, with a serious enough issue, this is exactly what a big car manufacturer recall does (shuts down, or immediately corrects, production of the product line involved) if the company is smart anyway. Why keep stamping out broken cars with lawyer grab-handles mounted on them?

Auto recalls sometimes take years to resolve

[Spicat]

7 hours ago, moeggz said:

So it’s a good thing you got Darrin to stop posting in discord cuz looks like the statement “science is at least six months away” is not, as he said, “very incorrect across the board.

Unless he meant it’s actually years away, or not coming at all.

That's incorrect, here is the correct statement that you posted:

It was not an answer to "science is at least six months away".

2 hours ago, Crabman said:

Nestor just said there is just “a handful” of people capable of fixing orbital bugs and other things alike.

This is the answer. There are not enough people working in this game anymore, T2 already made their cuts so there is no hope anymore for this game unfortunately 

There are maybe "not enough people" but the "anymore" make this false, because looking at linkedin there were never as many people at intercept as of today. To quote Darrin again:

Edited May 21, 2023 by Spicat

[cocoscacao]

10 hours ago, Vanamonde said:

But since it's hard to show a picture of a bug in mid-fix

I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. Here's me going through some bugs

[Alexoff]

1 hour ago, Spicat said:

That's incorrect, here is the correct statement that you posted:

It was not an answer to "science is at least six months away".

And what are we talking about? What until the colonies do not wait years?

[The Aziz]

54 minutes ago, cocoscacao said:

I'm sorry, but that's simply not true. Here's me going through some bugs

XD

Friendly reminder that pre launch dev diaries that went hard into technical side barely got any traction. Diaries with pretty pictures, on the other hand, were hot for weeks.

Your screenshots with some random ass functions, variables and tables out of context aren't going to work for anyone. And I'm pretty damn sure with something as complex as KSP, fixing bugs isn't as easy as changing a single bool from true to false.

Also, when you're working on a bugfix, you don't tend to distract yourself with screenshotting every time you change something, to, IDK, present it on show n tell meeting? Being a part designer you can show even the rough model. What really matters is the final result anyway.

Edited May 21, 2023 by The Aziz

[Pat20999]

On 5/19/2023 at 10:55 PM, Alexoff said:

Why are the hills far beyond the terminator line so illuminated? They don't get light.

Maybe it’s from the mun.

[Alexoff]

Just now, Pat20999 said:

Maybe it’s from the mun.

Nope, start the game and look at the planets - this is everywhere

[Pat20999]

Just now, Alexoff said:

Nope, start the game and look at the planets - this is everywhere

Ok

[Scarecrow71]

6 hours ago, LoSBoL said:

The Trajectory bug is a game breaking bug, which prevents the game from being a game. I really don't get why there is so much uncertainty about getting it or other game breaking bugs to get fixed. To me it's simple, it needs to be fixed to become a product, so it's going to be fixed, they are working on it, there is no other way the can't be.

 

Then why do they not tell us what bugs they are working on?  Why the secrecy?  Why not have a public bug tracker?

[Pat20999]

5 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Then why do they not tell us what bugs they are working on?  Why the secrecy?  Why not have a public bug tracker?

It’s so stupid because each time i

wonder: is my bug being worked on?

Edited May 21, 2023 by Pat20999

[MechBFP]

12 minutes ago, Pat20999 said:

It’s so stupid because each time i

wonder: is my bug being worked on?

You are never going to know that anyway. Just because a bug is acknowledged doesn’t mean it is going to be fixed anytime soon. Satisfactory for example has a number of acknowledged bugs that have been around for years at this point, they simply aren’t a priority, even though they are obvious bugs that everyone runs into. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by MechBFP

[Pat20999]

1 minute ago, MechBFP said:

You are never going to know that anyway. Just because a bug is acknowledged doesn’t mean it is going to be fixed anytime soon. Satisfactory for example has a number of acknowledged bugs that have been around for years at this point, they simply aren’t a priority, even though they are obvious bugs that everyone runs into. 

Yeah, but there must be a waiting list.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Pat20999

[darthgently]

2 hours ago, kdaviper said:

Auto recalls sometimes take years to resolve

Well, I did have the "if the company is smart" qualifier in there, but I suppose I stand somewhat corrected

[gussi111]

So a couple of days ago they made an announcement about making an announcement when the update will drop (this post) and in it we get yet another announcement that they will announce the exact date when we get closer to the update?

Are we at least going to get another image of Jool in a week or two?

Edited May 21, 2023 by gussi111

[cocoscacao]

47 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

Friendly reminder that pre launch dev diaries that went hard into technical side barely got any traction. Diaries with pretty pictures, on the other hand, were hot for weeks

I was joking of course. There are a few people here who probably enjoy hard tech content (modders, game devs?), so it is nice if they continue to include it from time to time.

Even though an average user shouldn't care about those topics, they still give you a scope of work being done. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by cocoscacao

[moeggz]

2 hours ago, Spicat said:

That's incorrect, here is the correct statement that you posted:

It was not an answer to "science is at least six months away".

 

So the first paragraph is me doing the math on science being multiple updates away with the slower release cycle. If it wasn’t clear, I am referring to science as “the first major update.” So I paraphrased that as “science is at least 6 months away” I think most people will agree that was a simple paraphrase.

I didn’t mention the second paragraph, but that doesn’t matter as he said I was “very incorrect across the board” meaning not only is my statement that new features are years away is incorrect, but also the first paragraph. I don’t see how anyone can interpret his response as not an answer to “science is six months away”

1 hour ago, Alexoff said:

And what are we talking about? What until the colonies do not wait years?

You’re missing a key word in your second sentence. I don’t know what you’re saying here, if you clarify it I will try to answer whatever you’re asking. 

[Spicat]

29 minutes ago, moeggz said:

So the first paragraph is me doing the math on science being multiple updates away with the slower release cycle. If it wasn’t clear, I am referring to science as “the first major update.” So I paraphrased that as “science is at least 6 months away” I think most people will agree that was a simple paraphrase.

I didn’t mention the second paragraph, but that doesn’t matter as he said I was “very incorrect across the board” meaning not only is my statement that new features are years away is incorrect, but also the first paragraph. I don’t see how anyone can interpret his response as not an answer to “science is six months away”

Well the second paragraph is what is (probably) the most incorrect one and also doesn't go well with your first. Science will surely not just be duplicating what we have in ksp 1, even new parts are very different. Also you talk about months in your first paragraph for the first content update while you talk about years in the second one.

So if multiple elements are false, people tend to discard the whole thing even if one thing is true in this.

I added the actual quote because you're interpretation of it is probably incorrect and I didn't want people to spread false or inexact devs words. At least now everyone can do their own interpretation.

For the first paragraph, I will add that he has maybe misread it (like me the first time I read your message) as in "1 or 2 years" for the first major update.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Spicat