Mohopeful

[PDCWolf]

28 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

Who said this was the right way?

The people that give them the money they spend on development back.

[Bej Kerman]

1 minute ago, PDCWolf said:

The people that give them the money they spend on development back.

Sorry, but buying something doesn't make someone an authoritative source on what's right or what isn't

[Alexoff]

1 hour ago, cocoscacao said:

Do you think that previous 2 patches were small, given they did them in ~1 month time?

Given that work on patches began even before the release, I think that not much has been done to bring the game in order. Many fixes were unimportant

[Spicat]

1 hour ago, PDCWolf said:

Excuse the quote as this is not directly aimed at you, but rather at the unprofessional attitude of leaving these official threads to fester, whilst they actually give out answers to the same questions in the discord without echoing them here. Specially after being told in the previous dev update that there's "nothing to add to these conversations". It seems not only there is, but we're being selectively left out of it.

Those kind of answers are very rare even on the discord though. I'm very active on the discord and Darrin (the guy who wrote the last dev diary) seems like a very cool guy, he's actually helping some people on the discord with crashes. But to reassure you, like the CMs, they don't reveal ground breaking information about the game (that would be reposted if it's the case).

1 hour ago, PDCWolf said:

Care to list some examples? Most of them appeared rather hollow to me.

One good example (I found it pretty interesting, like the GDC they had, I would love to have more, even about already implemented features):

Edited May 21, 2023 by Spicat

[gussi111]

2 hours ago, cocoscacao said:

Do you think that previous 2 patches were small, given they did them in ~1 month time?

There is no way they started working on them after launch especially the first one, they were probably working on it for weeks before release.

[Nicrose]

11 hours ago, The Aziz said:

Friendly reminder that pre launch dev diaries that went hard into technical side barely got any traction

Another friendly reminder that traction shouldn’t be the metric of good or bad topics, but more so the content of the comments. Personally I didn’t comment on the dev diaries but I always read and appreciated them ❤️ especially because I’m interested in game dev and computer science. However there’s no evidence of that partly because back when they put them out, I didn’t have an account and also because I had nothing to add, just internal excitement 

[MechBFP]

2 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

I'm not sure if you guys weren't here for KSP1, or are being purposefully disingenuous. KSP1 had public bugtracking. You could not only report bugs, but filter them out to see if they had been acknowledged, were already being worked on, ready to deploy on the next update, undergoing QA, etc. I'm not even citing some obscure project from a complete opposite genre of gaming, I'm talking about literally a game this company bought and took code from. Bug reporting and tracking was already done the right way.

What part of that has anything to do with what your quoted from me?

[cocoscacao]

1 hour ago, Alexoff said:

Given that work on patches began even before the release, I think that not much has been done to bring the game in order. Many fixes were unimportant

How long before release? In how many patches the game should be in order? What fixes are unimportant?

[PDCWolf]

2 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Sorry, but buying something doesn't make someone an authoritative source on what's right or what isn't

Good thing the whole concept of EA is to onboard the community as an influence on part of the development process.

2 hours ago, Spicat said:

I don't think the case for "people don't read because it's too technical" applies here, because he's literally doing laps on [and mr. dev if you read this please excuse me] how to draw a circle. The level of depth is great, interesting even, but the subject and application are so unimportant it's no wonder nobody sat through that and I didn't even remember it.

1 hour ago, MechBFP said:

What part of that has anything to do with what your quoted from me?

You were part of that discussion, and I believe the bit about public bugtracking responds to your statement about never knowing what happens after a bug is acknowledged, which we did know back when we had public bugtracking.

[Pyritin]

4 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Who said this was the right way?

Are you seriously trying to say that a proper bug reporting tool that can be used by not only the developers but the community that does the following things is the WRONG way?

• Consolidate bugs reports into a central location
• Allows easier discoverability for said bugs for users and devs to follow up with
• Inform the devs and community which bugs have been replicated or need more information at a glance
• Provides proof of progress to management and the community

Bad enough a MODDER had to build an in-app report solution because the dev's couldn't bother.... Now we got people trying to act like the standard way of bug management that has been a standard for ANY software solution for over a decade is "bad"... I understand that in any games official community section you have to accept that there is going to be a large number people who have "drank the kool-aid" but this is getting a bit overkill...

[AtomicTech]

9 hours ago, Redneck said:

Dude! We paid $50.00 for this! I paid $15.00 for ksp 1 and it had modding! THATS the difference! And i bought 3 copies of this Piece of garbage. Im sorry, but, they straight up ripped us off! What i would personally like to see is them bring back Harvester (creator of ksp 1) in some form or capacity if even as a consultant. If i knew they did that then i would have more confidence about this game and its future 

Spoiler

Seriously!

 

[Kerbart]

2 hours ago, cocoscacao said:

How long before release? In how many patches the game should be in order? What fixes are unimportant?

The fixes are unimportant in the sense that some of the major bugs reported from day 1 have not been addressed yet. To be fair, not all fixes were unimportant (there's a tendency from the nay-sayers to use hyperbole) but it is correct that there are a handful of bugs that warrant a hot fix. Rolling them out with a feature patch that seems to be at least 4 weeks out at this point in time is, at the very least, disappointing. It also suggests that the dev-team doesn't see the severity of those bugs in the same way as the community does. That's a disconnect that, at the very least, is disconcerting.

There's a lot of things I have understanding for. Yes, you team members who design parts likely know jack [###] about programming, so there's nothing they can do to fix the bugs. So why not let them continue what they do, which is adding new parts. And I totally understand that they want more time between feature updates, and that's fine too. But clearly, clearly, the community is dying to see bugs fixed. Why not roll out hot fixes once per week or at least twice per month?

Right now, not only are the devs missing out on a chance to turn disbelievers into believers, they're also turning their supporters away. When I see streamers polling if they should stream KSP1 or KSP2 content, I'd be worried if I were them. Very worried, A story about yay grid fins in a month is not going to cut it.

[Vanamonde]

I'm finding it somewhat surreal that the KSP1 bugtracker, which was always widely hated and frequently complained about, is now being help up as the shining example from the good old days that would save KSP2. 

[MechBFP]

4 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

which we did know back when we had public bugtracking.

Hahahaha. One in 50 times maybe. 

[cocoscacao]

4 hours ago, Kerbart said:

The fixes are unimportant in the sense that some of the major bugs reported from day 1 have not been addressed

Emphasis on major. I guess they take more time, and are not so easy to fix. I doubt that patch 3 will be able to address them all. 

[razark]

3 hours ago, Vanamonde said:

I'm finding it somewhat surreal that the KSP1 bugtracker, which was always widely hated and frequently complained about, is now being help up as the shining example from the good old days that would save KSP2. 

Ok, so I'm not the only one that remembers how much the KSP1 bugtracker was reviled by this community.

[GGG-GoodGuyGreg]

4 hours ago, Vanamonde said:

I'm finding it somewhat surreal that the KSP1 bugtracker, which was always widely hated and frequently complained about, is now being help up as the shining example from the good old days that would save KSP2. 

Any quality of bugtracker > no bug tracker

[Yakuzi]

5 hours ago, Vanamonde said:

I'm finding it somewhat surreal that the KSP1 bugtracker, which was always widely hated and frequently complained about, is now being help up as the shining example from the good old days that would save KSP2. 

I find it somewhat surreal that being critical about the UX and functionality of a tool apparently means it will get abolished. It's especially surreal since it concerns a tool which is integral for getting your software in a decent state, and extra especially surreal since KPS2 was released as EA because the community needed to "provide feedback to shape this exciting game through development" (and fork over $50).

* Bonus surrealism that this is coming from a mod.

[Sylvi Fisthaug]

I am absolutely not a mod, and quite new to the forums.

But I do not understand why the Dev Posts are kept active all week until the next one drops. 
The reason I do not understand it, is that the threads are almost instantly, in my opinion, derailed into "I hate the game" and "I disagree, the game is good", and not staying relevant to the topic of the Dev Post itself. 
Several times the mods have had to intervene in this thread just because community members, presumably on both sides, are not even able to keep it civil. 

The endless discussion makes these forums a lesser place to be for everyone, and on the hate side I see the same few people again, again and again in the threads below the Dev Posts.
We have all seen your points and outcries you have made several times already, and we get it. You don't like the game. 
This does not give you any excuse to make these forums a lesser place to be. 

I also feel the need to mention the people (included myself, of course) that always want to defend the game until they get tired of it and leave the forums.
Keeping the battle alive requires unnecessary moderator attention, and they need to go get their water buckets and stop potential flamewars.
In the Intercept Discord things are mostly kept civil, and in the KSP2_general channel things are mostly positive.
Not necessarily positive about the game, but there are some great community members there who makes lore, memes about the game and hail the Kerbug.

I do not like entering a forum that is so divided.
Always complaining and lamenting on KSP2 in the Dev post thread keeps this division alive. 
And always trying to defend the game does not help either.

Please, stop. 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Sylvi Fisthaug
typos, sentence structure

[Scarecrow71]

1 hour ago, Sylvi Fisthaug said:

I am absolutely not a mod, and quite new to the forums.

But I do not understand why the Dev Posts are kept active all week until the next one drops. 
The reason I do not understand it, is that the threads are almost instantly, in my opinion, derailed into "I hate the game" and "I disagree, the game is good", and not staying relevant to the topic of the Dev Post itself. 
Several times the mods have had to intervene in this thread just because community members, presumably on both sides, are not even able to keep it civil. 

The endless discussion makes these forums a lesser place to be for everyone, and on the hate side I see the same few people again, again and again in the threads below the Dev Posts.
We have all seen your points and outcries you have made several times already, and we get it. You don't like the game. 
This does not give you any excuse to make these forums a lesser place to be. 

I also feel the need to mention the people (included myself, of course) that always want to defend the game until they get tired of it and leave the forums.
Keeping the battle alive requires unnecessary moderator attention, and they need to go get their water buckets and stop potential flamewars.
In the Intercept Discord things are mostly kept civil, and in the KSP2_general channel things are mostly positive.
Not necessarily positive about the game, but there are some great community members there who makes lore, memes about the game and hail the Kerbug.

I do not like entering a forum that is so divided.
Always complaining and lamenting on KSP2 in the Dev post thread keeps this division alive. 
And always trying to defend the game does not help either.

Please, stop. 

Your post reads as if the problem lies only with those of us who aren't happy with KSP2.  As if the pro side is right and we are wrong.  As if we shouldn't have a voice or an opinion.  Surely, that isn't what you meant?

[Dakitess]

... Again.

Without theses discussions, we would barely see no activities around here. Without the complaints, OP posts are so empty and lacking news that there is barely nothing to speak about. Be sure that people complaining mostly are passionate players who definitely want to see a good KSP2 emerging, be it a few months or a few years.

But this game won't ever exist if there is only people saying that 15FPS is perfectly fine for a game like KSP, that a GTX1060 is an "omagad old card please invest, it's normal that new game requires new rigs" completely missing the fact that other AAA game way way way more beautiful / demanding are doing good on the same old components. That it's okay to have visual looking like 2017 at most, because it's not what matter for a game like KSP (again). That bugs and poor content is normal since it's an EA (...). That you're not a game dev and don't know how it works.

We. Get. It.

Complaints is a necessity, otherwise these people, who are on their own right to feel positive about the game and say so, would be the only one represented here, and it's not okay. Devs and Com team need to constantly feel that the game is not on the tracks at all, by any means, not able to be the new KSP for another decade. This is why we keep complaining. And as long as it's respectful regarding the teams, the moderators, and the other members, it's okay to do so. It also need to follow the thread subject, the topic, and not be gratuitous copy - pasted rants, for sure. But most of the time, all theses criteria are respected and you can't do much about it. Complaints will go lesser when dev threads will bring some good news, transparency, fair communication. When the update will show that the game is recovering, that there is a plan to make it better and worth of the KSP Legacy.

Or... When there won't be any interest anymore in KSP2, if it has to happen. Hopefully not.

Edited May 22, 2023 by Dakitess

[uglyduckling81]

112 players is the lowest today I believe.

[Superfluous J]

2 minutes ago, uglyduckling81 said:

112 players is the lowest today I believe.

Well at least we'll always have these numbers to talk about, no matter who does or does not start threads in the future.

[Sylvi Fisthaug]

51 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

Your post reads as if the problem lies only with those of us who aren't happy with KSP2.  As if the pro side is right and we are wrong.  As if we shouldn't have a voice or an opinion.  Surely, that isn't what you meant?

Nope, I'm including both parties in my rant. Although, most members here know which party I'm at. Trying to not let that sature my post.

2 hours ago, Sylvi Fisthaug said:

I also feel the need to mention the people (included myself, of course) that always want to defend the game until they get tired of it and leave the forums.

In this section I am highlighting the party that enjoys the game.

Edited May 22, 2023 by Sylvi Fisthaug

[Bej Kerman]

11 hours ago, Vanamonde said:

I'm finding it somewhat surreal that the KSP1 bugtracker, which was always widely hated and frequently complained about, is now being help up as the shining example from the good old days that would save KSP2. 

And this is why the developers should listen to the fanbase less, if anything. People who go in circles regarding their views just for the sake of framing KSP 2 in a negative light won't provide much helpful input

Edited May 22, 2023 by Bej Kerman