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[0.21] Hooligan Labs - Airship, Submarines and More


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That is intentional. The game does not handle depths below (exactly) 600 meters properly, and to prevent glitching Hooligan has coded ships to be destroyed when they reach 600 meters below the surface. Keep in mind that that's already deeper than most submarines can possibly operate.

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OK performance it back to regular 'laggy' as opposed to 'slideshow' - thanks!

Awesome! :cool:

That is intentional. The game does not handle depths below (exactly) 600 meters properly, and to prevent glitching Hooligan has coded ships to be destroyed when they reach 600 meters below the surface. Keep in mind that that's already deeper than most submarines can possibly operate.

Exactly. I added this to the Submarine FAQ. http://hlmods.wikia.com/wiki/Submarine_F.A.Q.

Edited by Hooligan Labs
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Dunno if someone already said it, but... It would be great if buoyancy and pitch would work together when you pitch-balance an imbalanced sub... When you change the buoyancy, it tilts before it settles again. Same for... thingy... ehm, airships.

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If you bothered to read the rest of my reply you would have seen that I support Squad making the planets better. However my own opinion is that I don't want it to become a "ultra realistic" space sim. I'm fine with adding enough realism to give it depth and some challenge but beyond that? No thanks.

EDIT: And to address the sarcasm that was practically oozing out of every letter of your post, that was not an 'impassioned' reply. Well thought out, yes. It was also my opinion. If you notice I didn't bash your opinion, I merely stated that it was not something I would want. However I am mature enough to know and understand that if Squad chooses to go that route with their game then I will either adapt or move on to other games.

Yea, OK, maybe I did get a little carried away with myself, I do love sarcastic humor, so sorry about that. At least I had a fun time making that post ;)

It was just the first few sentences of your post that I took offense to- I think that there are a lot better (and slightly more respectful) ways to say what you were trying to say there other than (effectively) "this isn't Orbiter, so either go join NASA or shut up." That's at least how it felt to me, no matter what your original intentions were with those statements. My point is the "argument" that "this isn't <insert game name here>" is not even a valid argument for anything at all, as it can be used to justify the removal or exclusion every single feature and aspect of the game, or, as you use it, just those features that you don't want.

I think the real question, the answer to which would go a long way towards solving this small debate to one side or the other, is what level of realism is KSP eventually intended to be? (There's no reason you can't have "cartoon" universes that follow very realistic physical laws and have very realistic physical bodies.) I don't know if Squad has ever really addressed that what level of realism KSP is intended to be (everything I've seen though seems to indicate that they are shooting for as realistic as practicality and fun will allow). Heck, maybe they don't even know themselves.

Edited by |Velocity|
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If you want to add more realism, I highly recommend that you create a mod which does just that. FAR and Deadly Re-Entry are extremely popular.

I have made pretty large mods for other games, so that is definitely a possibility one day. I'm not sure though that the kinds of things I would like to mod though are actually mod-able yet, and I don't have the time for such a project at this moment. Also, I can do lots of computer code, but suck at artwork :/

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Hooligan Labs:

Did you guys by chance ever entertain the idea of implementing this fix for walking on airships with Kerbals? Not sure if it still works in .21 was gonna try it tonight and just see....but if not is this something that could be done? Thanks for all your hard work. I love the airships

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/sea-sickness-cure/

The threads here....http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/25695-Sea-Sickness-Cure-walking-on-floating-vessels/page3

looks like the author kinda abandoned it. A guy on that 3rd page updated it in june. But it still may be outdated.

Edited by synik4l
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w2lP6XR.jpg

That's the first one that didn't just sink and break on the bottom. Needs more work, but the principle is clearly sound.

I've got a few things I don't quite get about the submarine mod though:

Do ballast tanks pull the ship down or up? If I had no ballast tanks but all the buoyancy changes, would an inert vessel have neutral buoyancy, sink, or float to the surface?

Logically you'd think they pull down and without them the vessel floats, but this sub didn't work well until I put the tanks higher up in the hull and reduced it's mass a lot...

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w2lP6XR.jpg

That's the first one that didn't just sink and break on the bottom. Needs more work, but the principle is clearly sound.

I've got a few things I don't quite get about the submarine mod though:

Do ballast tanks pull the ship down or up? If I had no ballast tanks but all the buoyancy changes, would an inert vessel have neutral buoyancy, sink, or float to the surface?

Logically you'd think they pull down and without them the vessel floats, but this sub didn't work well until I put the tanks higher up in the hull and reduced it's mass a lot...

Ballast tanks SINK you. By the nature of the coding everything floats, so to make the objects sink you have to add ballast, or weight, to the object so that the total weight of the object versus the total displacement is greater than the density of water. The ballast tanks allow this to happen by both redoing how much things float as well as giving you an object or set of objects that you can effectively control the weight and mass of. When empty they float as well as any other part with the new code. As you increase the ballast slider, they increase in mass (On a normal sub this is done by taking on water) thus increasing in density until they are more dense than water and sink down pulling the rest of the craft with them.

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JewelShisen: You've got that backwards. Evernthing wants to sink, but the tanks (when empty) keep you afloat. As you fill them, you sink.

Ah ok then. I was mixing it up with the old float code that makes EVERYTHING float... >.>

To quote monty python: What else floats in water? LEAD!

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Also bread, apples and cider.

Naturally, the obvious thing is that tanks would sink you and without them you float, because in KSP universe everything floats, and that's how you would sink something in a world where everything floats. I know enough about how ballast works in our universe, thank you, I wanted to be a submarine captain when I was a kid. :) But as far as I can see, these particular ballast tanks work more like airship envelopes, in that once you have them, you naturally sink, and they keep you afloat at ballast 0%.

I'd love to hear a more elaborate clarification from Hooligan though, and that should be in the FAQ.

Edited by Mihara
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I got better!

* Misuses meme, is banned from the Internet *

I'd love to hear a more elaborate clarification from Hooligan though, and that should be in the FAQ.

Maybe I should re-label 0% "Float" and 100% "Sink". :)

But ballast tanks can contain two things, air and water. When you enter water this mod simulates the buoyancy of displaced water to provide lift. As the slider moves towards 100% the ballast tanks fill with water, pushing out air. This not only reduces lift but also increases mass and thus the force of gravity on the vessel.

There isn't an effective way of measuring displacement in KSP, so the only things that provide buoyant force on submarines is ballast tanks and crew quarters (which are assumed to be filled with 1 m3 of air for every crew member). 1 m3 of buoyant air lifts 1.025 tons of weight on Kerbin and other watery planets.

Thus, a light vessel with a lot of crew would require filled ballast tanks to sink. A heavy vessel without crew (more common in KSP) requires emptied ballast tanks to not sink!

It might seem strange to call the parts "ballast tanks" when they can also help a vessel to float, but that seems to be the appropriate nomenclature based on what I have read about submarines. Any suggestions from self-taught submarine captains are welcome. :)

BTW, added to wiki: http://hlmods.wikia.com/wiki/Submarine_F.A.Q.

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