Kethane Pack 0.9.2 - New cinematic trailer! - 1.0 compatibility update

[Tanya Sapien]

Perhaps it has been mentioned/asked before in this thread. If so, sorry for asking it again.

The Kethane scanners detect Kethane, but they can also detect other materials (providing etc.). Would you be willing to adapt the Kethane scanners in such a way that they can detect the anomalies (easter eggs)? A cell could be colored red for instance in Kethane cellmap whenever the detector notices an anomalies. You could even add false positives if you consider it cheating.

well Red is already used for Ore for the launchpads addon, but I do like where you're going with that. Currently ISA mapsat is the only Easter egg hunting mod I know of, however I've noticed parameters in the Kethane config files which would theoretically allow overrides of deposit locations. If one were very crafty and very meticulous, they could make a unique resource titled "Anomaly" and manually override the spawn locations to make them match the coordinate list of anomalies detectable with ISA.

You give them a unique color, like maybe blue, and then have at it. while you're scanning, any region which contains an anomaly will show up blue. So somewhere inside that hexagon/pentagon is an easter egg. It wouldn't be cheaty since on planets like Kerbin you're still looking at roughly 100 square kilometers to search.

I think when I've got the time this evening I'll try to do some coding and see if I can come up with anything.

[Donziboy2]

Once you have enough science you'll upgrade- what?

KSP Interstellar has upgrades for its reactors, generators, and some engines. Increases power/fuel economy things like that.

[TheCardinal]

I just mentioned red as an example (the ISA mapsat indicates anomalies with red points).

100 square kilometers on Kerbin does mean that the user still has to check with a rover or another craft of some sorts. Now i'm thinking about it, it seem to enhance the search in yet another (unused) way.

At some stage i don't doubt that water (with H2 and O2) will appear in KSP as a required resource. This mod could well be used as an omnipotent utility to whatever resource one chooses, including water.

[NickTheSushi]

The download link in the OP is broken, is it going to be fixed soon?

[Patupi]

Mapping a resource onto instances of water on the surface? Hmmm, that could be a good idea. Make Hydrogen and oxium rocket fuel (for those mods that use it) from water... of course it'd only work on Laythe and Kerbin like that, but ice resource on moons? Nice prospect.

[PhilMcgroin]

So I've just been making a few test extractors to figure out what my rig is going to look like, and noticed some weird behaviour with the kethane reactor. My current setup has 3 of the small drills running off the reactor, and at normal speed, it matches the power draw of the drills while running at about 32% output.

Timewarping to 5 or 10x makes the output jump up to about 50%, then slowly stablize back to 32%.

50x sends it to a permanent 42.7%

100x runs it at 80%

Is this normal? Does Kethane conversion become less efficient at high time warps?

I'm guessing that when it states it uses 0.5L of kethane/sec for 75 power/sec, that would be at 100% output. So does that mean at 32% I'm using 0.16L/s, then at 100x timewarp, I'm using 0.4L/s to generate the same amount of power? That doesn't make sense to me.

Edited September 3, 2013 by PhilMcgroin

[Donziboy2]

That sounds like more of a game issue then Kethane, alot of other mods have problems when it comes to warp and resource consumption.

[PhilMcgroin]

Yea I was thinking that it might just be that, but I didn't notice the rate of Kethane being extracted change in a similar manner. Obviously, it got faster with the speed up, but the rate of change in Kethane the resources bar didn't change at all, only the rate of change in electricity. Which makes me think its either intended, or something that could possibly be fixed.

Edit: Nevermind! I was mistaken, the rate of Kethane extraction jumps up too, I just didn't notice it the first time. So you're right, it is just the game handling warp and resources weirdly.

Edited September 3, 2013 by PhilMcgroin

[Majiir]

I'm not sure what you're experiencing with warp, but it could be insufficient capacity somewhere. Everything should behave the same as long as none of the individual timestep quantities exceed the capacity of an individual container.

On an unrelated note, this could be useful to some:

[Donziboy2]

"Wonder if I should lay on a couch and stare at that picture"

[elind21]

On an unrelated note, this could be useful to some:

For some reason, I don't think Gilly is large enough to have resource deposits... It could just be me but in most cases of asteroids trapped by a gravity well, they don't magically create mineral deposits because they become a moon. (admittedly there are minerals in asteroids, but low quantities of many different minerals)

[Majiir]

For some reason, I don't think Gilly is large enough to have resource deposits... It could just be me but in most cases of asteroids trapped by a gravity well, they don't magically create mineral deposits because they become a moon. (admittedly there are minerals in asteroids, but low quantities of many different minerals)

Realistic or not, Gilly has always had deposits in order to guarantee legacy support. The feature I'm showing off here is the grid conforming to the shape of the moon. Currently, Gilly just has a big sphere around it, and it looks terrible.

[EDIT] Here's a shot of Minmus: http://i1.minus.com/i7bbJE0DHb7Ab.png

[Aldmehr]

Using KAS and docking ports cleverly, you can completely cut Kerbals out of the operation and have a fully "automated" two-stage Kethane-to-fuel mining operation.

Can you provide more detail about this design?

Can you successfully convert kethane through a KAS connection into liquid fuel or oxidizer?

I can do it through docking ports, but have not had any success converting through KAS connections.

Converting into a local tank and transferring manually across the KAS connection works or using something like tac fuel balancer also works.

Maybe a zoomed in image of your KAS "mouse" or even a craft file might help?

Edited September 4, 2013 by Aldmehr

[somnambulist]

The feature I'm showing off here is the grid conforming to the shape of the moon. Currently, Gilly just has a big sphere around it, and it looks terrible.

[EDIT] Here's a shot of Minmus: http://i1.minus.com/i7bbJE0DHb7Ab.png

Majiir if you're ever in Minneapolis-St Paul, I'm buying you a beer.

[elind21]

Realistic or not, Gilly has always had deposits in order to guarantee legacy support. The feature I'm showing off here is the grid conforming to the shape of the moon. Currently, Gilly just has a big sphere around it, and it looks terrible.

[EDIT] Here's a shot of Minmus: http://i1.minus.com/i7bbJE0DHb7Ab.png

COOL!!! Although, would it be possible to have it closer to the surface of the planet, having the grid hover above the planet has always given me a headache.

[SkyRender]

Can you provide more detail about this design?

Can you successfully convert kethane through a KAS connection into liquid fuel or oxidizer?

I can do it through docking ports, but have not had any success converting through KAS connections.

Converting into a local tank and transferring manually across the KAS connection works or using something like tac fuel balancer also works.

Maybe a zoomed in image of your KAS "mouse" or even a craft file might help?

It is possible to run a Kerbal-free KAS-based Kethane operation. How it's done is as follows:

1. You put a small QBE probe with wheels and solar panels and a single docking port onto the end of a KAS winch that has a stack connector attached to it. This effectively makes the QBE a separate craft that you can undock, but also keeps it permanently attached to the miner.

2. When you want to use the KAS mouse, you release it via the winch and undock it via the KAS GUI. Then, drive it up to the fuel tug and dock it as its own independent craft. This gives you the miner as one craft, and the KAS mouse + fuel tug as another. (The mouse is very light, so you'll definitely want to drive it in docking mode!)

3. Open up the KAS GUI for the winch and dock. Now the miner, mouse, and tug are all docked together safely. You have to do it in this order.

4. Mine and convert fuel to your heart's content!

5. When done, undock the mouse from the miner via the KAS GUI, then switch to the fuel tug/mouse and manually undock the mouse from the fuel tug. Order of operations is critical here!

6. Retract the mouse to docked-with-KAS-winch position, send the fuel tug on its way, and there you have it!

I highly recommend quicksaving before doing any docking or undocking with KAS. If a craft gets "stuck" after undocking, quicksave and quickload and it will revert to being able to be moved. I've tested this Kerbal-free mining method on Minmus, and it works perfectly.

EDIT: Here's a close-up of the miner + KAS mouse:

Edited September 4, 2013 by SkyRender

[taniwha]

(The mouse is very light, so you'll definitely want to drive it in docking mode!)

As an alternative, disable the reaction wheel (I think that gets saved).

[Orphican]

Realistic or not, Gilly has always had deposits in order to guarantee legacy support. The feature I'm showing off here is the grid conforming to the shape of the moon. Currently, Gilly just has a big sphere around it, and it looks terrible.

[EDIT] Here's a shot of Minmus: http://i1.minus.com/i7bbJE0DHb7Ab.png

Very nice. I was hoping you'd do something like this.

[taniwha]

About Gilly and resources. There's no reason something that small won't have nice resources. It can even be rich in those resources, but it's highly improbable that anything would "regenerate": mine the kethane on Gilly and that's it: all gone. I can imiagine some regeneration on Mun and even Minmus, though, as they have much more volume to "hide" deep deposits that can seep to the surface.

[Tw1]

I can imiagine some regeneration on Mun and even Minmus, though, as they have much more volume to "hide" deep deposits that can seep to the surface.

I wouldn't really call that regeneration, as no new resource is being formed. Unless the term has a different use in the mining/oil industries.

As we don't really have an explanation for how kethane forms, it'd be hard to say if it would be renew itself over time or not. The evidence we have says no, but ease with which it turns into other things does makes it pretty magical...

*Not saying kethane should be programmed to regenerate, or made more science-y, or anything. Just speculating.

[taniwha]

Everything is relative, so while "regenerate" is wrong from an absolute POV, it's not so bad from a "hey, this deposit is full again" POV.

[elind21]

It is possible to run a Kerbal-free KAS-based Kethane operation. How it's done is as follows:

1. You put a small QBE probe with wheels and solar panels and a single docking port onto the end of a KAS winch that has a stack connector attached to it. This effectively makes the QBE a separate craft that you can undock, but also keeps it permanently attached to the miner.

2. When you want to use the KAS mouse, you release it via the winch and undock it via the KAS GUI. Then, drive it up to the fuel tug and dock it as its own independent craft. This gives you the miner as one craft, and the KAS mouse + fuel tug as another. (The mouse is very light, so you'll definitely want to drive it in docking mode!)

3. Open up the KAS GUI for the winch and dock. Now the miner, mouse, and tug are all docked together safely. You have to do it in this order.

4. Mine and convert fuel to your heart's content!

5. When done, undock the mouse from the miner via the KAS GUI, then switch to the fuel tug/mouse and manually undock the mouse from the fuel tug. Order of operations is critical here!

6. Retract the mouse to docked-with-KAS-winch position, send the fuel tug on its way, and there you have it!

I highly recommend quicksaving before doing any docking or undocking with KAS. If a craft gets "stuck" after undocking, quicksave and quickload and it will revert to being able to be moved. I've tested this Kerbal-free mining method on Minmus, and it works perfectly.

EDIT: Here's a close-up of the miner + KAS mouse:

Why go Kerbal free? KERBALS ALL THE WAY!!!

[taniwha]

He might be one of those "anti-'manned space exploration'" types. Or maybe he runs a life support mod.

[Inchoately]

It is possible to run a Kerbal-free KAS-based Kethane operation. How it's done is as follows:

[...]

Can you provide a screenshot with all crafts connected in a working mining process, please?

It is Kerbal-free, but does this also allow automatic kethane conversion into docked (via KAS+mouse) fuel tanks?

thanks in advance.

[Majiir]

Majiir if you're ever in Minneapolis-St Paul, I'm buying you a beer.

I'm unlikely to be in Minneapolis any time soon. I'll redeem this if you ever come east.

Although, would it be possible to have it closer to the surface of the planet, having the grid hover above the planet has always given me a headache.

The grid distance is configurable, but it can't be too close because the grid polygons can clip into the surface. Since they follow the terrain surface now, the skin can be quite close, and I'll be tweaking those numbers.

Before then, I want to do some performance profiling and test some optimization techniques. Currently, the terrain height is queried for every vertex (there are 61,452 of them) and the results aren't cached. I think I can reduce the query count by a factor of two or three, and caching the results would be fairly easy and use little memory. Still, as it is, there's not a noticeable delay when switching planets.