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Reahreic

Anyone not using mods?

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I've toyed around with mods, like Damned Robotics and Gaby's submarine parts, but I haven't done much with them. The trusses in DR are great for making lander legs though, when the stock ones aren't long enough. Also, crew-tanks As for mechjeb, I mostly use it for Smart A.S.S, and the orbital and surface info. The only other times I use it are when I've already done the maneuver in question manually plenty of times. For instance, I can't be bothered to manually launch every crew delivery for my 15 man space station.

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I've parked a craft in orbit around every planet and moon in the game with stock and landed on most of them, but I usually use some mods. I keep two separate installs of KSP on my system - one with mods installed, one stock only.

Playing with mods makes it a very different game. When I use mechjeb I use it to set accurate headings (Smart A.S.S mode only) and display orbital and surface information, rather than using any automation modes. The Kethane mod turns it into a resource gathering game, which is a nice change to play with occasionally.

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years of playing orbiter have made my space skills so good its almost trivial for me to go entirely stock. but i play the game mostly for the fun of it and for me that involves mods. so many mods it takes me nearly 5 minutes to load the game on an i7.

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I use plenty of mods, normally. However, I've been playing stock KSP for a while now because the mods have been getting hard to manage for me, and it's hard for me to keep building launchers... so I decided to just pilot things for a while, without any tools to clutter my screen. It's cool and fun, reaching other worlds and watching my little planes and spacecraft fly around the surface, enjoying the landscapes... but I really don't appreciate the attitude of people who jump on others (newbies no less) using mods to make piloting easier. For some people, and at some times, KSP is a rocket construction game, or it's a sightseeing game. It's supremely arrogant to assume that just because your variety of challenge  the challenge of manual piloting in this case  isn't being fully appreciated by someone else, that they must be enjoying the game less than you... or that their playstyle is otherwise somehow inferior in how worthwhile it is.

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I use mods like Kerpollo because it means I can build smaller rockets that don't lag so much, and the black & white tanks look better than the stock textures, imo. I also like some of the space station and rover mods so I can create more varied missions. I haven't tried the autopilot addons because I already learned to fly by the seat of my pants and it's more fun that way. It's great there's so much variety to keep everyone happy, that's the main thing.

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I'm a relative noob playing mostly stock, but with I've dabbled with a few parts mods in a vain attempt to cut down on parts to reduce launchpad lag.

My only real issue with the mods is the asinine advice some people some to give when I'm reading other peoples requests for help:

"Can someone help me / give me some tips on interplanetary flight to Duna?" with the response "Use Mechjeb, transfer orbit......." is just not helpful.

Aside from that, I think people are entitled to their high horse to some extent:

From what I've read, I don't think anyone really cares what people are doing in their own game or for their own enjoyment.....

..... However, I can see how posts on here that equate getting Getting to Jool and back, stock and without the aid of Mechjeb to being the same level of achievement as using a modded engine with mega high specific impulse and clicking buttons on the Mechjeb interface could ruffle some feathers.

As soon as the mod using posters stop pretending that it is the same thing, I think you'll see the negative attitudes towards some mod users go down.

As it stands, mods like the crew tank and the docking mods allow us to do things not yet implemented, and I think that's fantastic.

Edited by OxfordTheCat

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I played stock for about 1 day when 0.16 came out. It was legitimately fun, and the new parts add alot of functionality to the game. What KSP is missing in the stock perspective is a variety of part and functionalities, and mods provide that. For those that want to do more than just land, mods are the way to go. Before 0.17, stock just wasn´t enough to hold my attention past a couple of hours. I think that the game was meant to be played with mods, but that´s just my opinion. More power to people who swear against them, I just can´t live without them!

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I tried a few mods during 0.16 but just for two days. I prefer playing without mods, some of them look really cool and are really helpfull such as mechjeb, but achieving perfect orbits, randezvous, landings and completing missions successfully with stock rockets or spaceplanes is so satistying and fun ! And it is also much more challenging.

Of course everyone is free to play the way they want :) . I advice new players or players that have never tried mods to try them at least once... they may improve your gameplay.

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..... However, I can see how posts on here that equate getting Getting to Jool and back stock without the aid of Mechjeb to being the same level of achievement as using a modded engine with mega high specific impulse and clicking buttons on the Mechjeb interface would ruffle some feathers.

This.

I have a friend who plays KSP pretty much exclusively using cheater parts (literally. He edits part .cfg's) and relies exclusively on mechjeb's autopilot. I really don't give a crap if that's how he enjoys playing or not, but when he starts bragging to me about things like landing on eve and getting back, when I know he only accomplished it with near unlimited fuel and ultra high thrust engines, (I have the .craft file. with unedited .cfg's the thing won't even make it to LKO) and him pushing a button and sitting back and watching as it flew itself there and back.. Well, it just makes me want to smack him.

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This.

I have a friend who plays KSP pretty much exclusively using cheater parts (literally. He edits part .cfg's) and relies exclusively on mechjeb's autopilot. I really don't give a crap if that's how he enjoys playing or not, but when he starts bragging to me about things like landing on eve and getting back, when I know he only accomplished it with near unlimited fuel and ultra high thrust engines, (I have the .craft file. with unedited .cfg's the thing won't even make it to LKO) and him pushing a button and sitting back and watching as it flew itself there and back.. Well, it just makes me want to smack him.

Your friend's play style sounds like an extreme case of what bothers a lot of people around here.

For me editing .cfgs on any parts is a big no no except in very rare cases.

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This.

I have a friend who plays KSP pretty much exclusively using cheater parts (literally. He edits part .cfg's) and relies exclusively on mechjeb's autopilot. I really don't give a crap if that's how he enjoys playing or not, but when he starts bragging to me about things like landing on eve and getting back, when I know he only accomplished it with near unlimited fuel and ultra high thrust engines, (I have the .craft file. with unedited .cfg's the thing won't even make it to LKO) and him pushing a button and sitting back and watching as it flew itself there and back.. Well, it just makes me want to smack him.

So he's happy he got to Eve. I don't see why this should make you so mad...?

..... However, I can see how posts on here that equate getting Getting to Jool and back, stock and without the aid of Mechjeb to being the same level of achievement as using a modded engine with mega high specific impulse and clicking buttons on the Mechjeb interface could ruffle some feathers.

If it's this kind of attitude that drives posts like Qume's, then I would have to say that people who feel as he does seem to operate on the presumption that people who use MechJeb or so-called "cheat parts" (in their own singleplayer game) are on the whole somehow trying to assert the superiority of their playstyle to yours... maybe it is superior to them, but I think you are imagining conflict where it doesn't exist. Even if your friend is really getting all up in your face about it, I don't think anyone else is or is going to... I have been on this forum for months, and I have lurked 4chan's /vg/ and /v/ threads about KSP (much more hostile than here, mind) and I have never, ever read a single instance of any MechJeb user trying to assert the universal superiority of MechJeb as a way of experiencing the challenge of getting places in the game. There are, on the other hand, no shortages of proud "I do all my own stunts" types who like to jump on posters at the first sight of a Smart A.S.S. panel.

As soon as the mod using posters stop pretending that it is the same thing, I think you'll see the negative attitudes towards some mod users go down.

I don't think anybody's "pretending" that it's the same thing for everybody.

Edited by Accelerando

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Allow me an analogy here.

Remember in elementary school, when you used to do all the long divisions by hand. The feeling of accomplishment was pretty high after an especially hard one.

Now, once in college, did you have that same feeling when doing a long division, or did you not even bother with it and did it on a calculator?

Some could say it was "cheating" or not "pure", or you could say that since you know the mechanics of division, you can do it on the calculator and using your time to do more advanced and intellectually challenging things with your time.

Sure, getting to the moon and planets stock is a nice challenge, but when you've done it a couple time, I think you're limiting yourself (voluntarily or not) if you don't use mods/plugins, you're missing a lot of what the game has to offer simply because of ideology. I lifted off manually dozens of time, but now I'm at the point of trying to optimize the fuel and the staging, and the ascent autopilot is a nice tool to do it by isolating variables and having flight data to analyze. It's not "cheating", is pushing the limits of the game and extending the gameplay. It seems to me that the mod haters are trying to justify their lack of openness to a game that even the devs said many times was designed to used with mods.

I'm not talking about infinite fuel mods, but legitimate and balanced mods or mods that add features (I count MechJeb in this category). For example, NovaPunch part are as balanced as the stock part, yet offer much more options to design original and unique crafts.

Also, one could argue that the stock aerospike engine is less balanced than many mod engines (NP, KW)... so I tend to take the purists and their higher moral ground with a grain of salt. You paid for the game, so you have the right to play it the way you want. :)

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I personally have not played with them much, but I do try them. I try to do all my KSP videos stock (so that anyone can either use my designs without having to find all the mod packs or try themselves what I did). One exception to this rule of thumb is when I built a space station from a mod pack, however, it was not the point of the video, I used it as a target to demonstrate rendezvous. That said, some of the coolest things I have seen on these forums have been either mod packs or custom built ships. I love the idea of people working to build a better space program through mods, but as I said, to keep my videos open to everyone (mods or not) I tend to not give mods screen time.

My channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePMilitaryCompany?feature=mhee

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So he's happy he got to Eve. I don't see why this should make you so mad...?

He was gloating because I haven't managed it yet.. Got plenty of stuff ON eve.. Getting off it again and back without resorting to cheater parts/cfg file editing is another matter. I know it's possible. I've seen it done. But I haven't personally managed it yet.

I also don't understand how people like that can even legitimately feel like they actually accomplished something, when all they did was avoid the challenge all together. It's like being in a foot race, sitting in a lawn chair at the start/finish line for the whole thing, then getting an award for being last place, and actually being proud of that award... I just don't get the mentality... Probably a bad analogy since KSP isn't a competition, however my point is I don't get how people can brag about and be proud of stuff, when they put zero effort into doing it.

Edited by Qumefox

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He was gloating because I haven't managed it yet.. Got plenty of stuff ON eve.. Getting off it again and back without resorting to cheater parts/cfg file editing is another matter. I know it's possible. I've seen it done. But I haven't personally managed it yet.

I also don't understand how people like that can even legitimately feel like they actually accomplished something, when all they did was avoid the challenge all together. It's like being in a foot race, sitting in a lawn chair at the start/finish line for the whole thing, then getting an award for being last place, and actually being proud of that award... I just don't get the mentality... Probably a bad analogy since KSP isn't a competition, however my point is I don't get how people can brag about and be proud of stuff, when they put zero effort into doing it.

Getting to and from Eve, even with cheat parts, requires at least some inowledge of how to maneuver, and often how to perform plane change maneuvers, etc... even if it is a vastly reduced effort, it is still some effort. And as you say, KSP isn't a competition... on the whole I don't think anyone should get so worked up about how others play their game. I do not applaud your friend for acting as though MechJeb + cheats should be the superior way for you as well, but the fact that you don't understand the gratification felt by people who play (not necessarily act) as he does is still no excuse for ragging on the mods in general or the playstyles of those who use them...

Some people simply don't need more challenge in a certain area to feel good about themselves. Life isn't always a competition, like you realize with KSP. Sometimes it's just about kicking back and enjoying the sights. Have you ever played Freelancer? It's a soft scifi space combat RPG, where you don't have to worry at all about fuel and propellant (or maneuvering, to some extent) to go nearly anywhere in the game universe; you just hop on a trade lane or engage your thrusters and go. I've spent hours in that game just cruising around, exploring, fending off the occasional bandit - but the bandits weren't what made it for me, it was the beautiful scenery in each system, the nebulae and starfields and the planets and stations. I don't think my sense of achievement was diminished by the fact that I was doing this before I had endured the hardest parts of the game, which I hadn't. It was just cool to see the sights.

Edited by Accelerando

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I have a friend who plays KSP pretty much exclusively using cheater parts (literally. He edits part .cfg's) and relies exclusively on mechjeb's autopilot. I really don't give a crap if that's how he enjoys playing or not, but when he starts bragging to me about things like landing on eve and getting back, when I know he only accomplished it with near unlimited fuel and ultra high thrust engines, (I have the .craft file. with unedited .cfg's the thing won't even make it to LKO) and him pushing a button and sitting back and watching as it flew itself there and back.. Well, it just makes me want to smack him.

This sounds like a legitimate reason to be angry at a mod-user, but most of the mod users here don't do that sort of thing. For me, back when MechJeb came out, I was happy to land on the Mun using it, but I wasn't proud of it. Actually I didn't care if I was proud of it or not. I just wanted to play the game. If your friend wasn't bragging about it, I'd tell you that he was just having fun with the game.

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*snip*

Well. This much is obvious. You either understand where i'm coming from with this, or you don't.

You apparently don't. Which means continuing this discussion would be about as fruitful as a discussion on religion or politics.. Where both sides are eager to talk, but neither will listen.

So i'm out.

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Well. This much is obvious. You either understand where i'm coming from with this, or you don't.

You apparently don't. Which means continuing this discussion would be about as fruitful as a discussion on religion or politics.. Where both sides are eager to talk, but neither will listen.

So i'm out.

...What? You were saying you don't understand how people using autopilots and/or cheat parts can feel accomplishment from that, and I was trying to explain it to you... I don't think I don't understand where you're coming from with this. I know I've felt gratification before for doing it myself...

As a hard scifi buff, I've felt pretty good when I actually run the numbers for the settings of the worlds I invent in my head, and to be entirely truthful it sometimes bothers me if people don't put much effort into making their worlds so internally consistent as I envision my own being. On the other hand, I know that those people may simply prefer not to spend so much effort as I try to, because they derive more satisfaction from the creation of characters, or scenery, than the world's mechanics... and I know I can appreciate a good protagonist or a panoramic shot just as much.

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To be honest, I cheaty part to all hell. My fave is my pumkin tank. it makes for entertaining videos (the main thing it was made for) while weighing almost nothing start to finish with 40,000 litres of fuel.

Why? Because if I want to test the behavior of a mod part I'm developing on another planet, then I'll send it there via a 2 part rocket (mainsail + pumkin cheat-o-tank). I'd rather not have to deal with the wobbly mass of explosions that occurs developing a rocket while I'm still testing the parts I'm trying to send there. And to be honest, it does tend to be a bit more fun for me this way than frustrating.

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