KSP1 Computer Building/Buying Megathread

[DeadOnDuna]

1 minute ago, legoclone09 said:

Wait. So I can throw a RX 460 in with my RX 480!?!?!? Damn! That's awesome!

The catch is, they have to be of the same core derivative.

I think  RX 460 is on Polaris 11 and RX480 is Polaris 10  but you should google it ...

[steve_v]

On 13/01/2017 at 9:11 AM, Elthy said:

Its only a theoretical increase, isnt it?

RAID0 stripes data across multiple devices, so reading or writing happens in parallel, with only part of the file read from/written to each drive. 2 drives = 1/2 the work for each device = 2x performance. It's simple physics, nothing theoretical about it.

On 13/01/2017 at 9:11 AM, Elthy said:

You wont see faster boot times or faster loading times e.g. for games.

Why not? If the storage subsystem is faster, things waiting on storage get faster... whether that makes a difference to you depends on where the bottleneck is.

 

2 hours ago, legoclone09 said:

And you don't need a bridge like a certain other company!

What's wrong with bridges? If you have no dedicated inter-GPU channel then that data is going on the PCIE bus, and you're going to be using more PCIE bandwidth. I don't see how this could possibly be an advantage, except in cutting production cost.
Then again, AMD does seem to like to abuse that PCIE slot...
On the whole though, SLI/Crossfire is a bit of a mixed bag, sometimes it's great, sometimes it doesn't work properly (or at all), and sometimes it brings new and strange bugs. Heavily dependent on drivers and application support.

Edited January 14, 2017 by steve_v
Holy **** this editor is awful.

[legoclone09]

1 hour ago, steve_v said:

What's wrong with bridges? If you have no dedicated inter-GPU channel then that data is going on the PCIE bus, and you're going to be using more PCIE bandwidth. I don't see how this could possibly be an advantage, except in cutting production cost.
Then again, AMD does seem to like to abuse that PCIE slot...
On the whole though, SLI/Crossfire is a bit of a mixed bag, sometimes it's great, sometimes it doesn't work properly (or at all), and sometimes it brings new and strange bugs. Heavily dependent on drivers and application support.

They're like $40 (a little expensive for me, but worth it I guess) and I was poking fun at novideo Nvidia.

Edited January 14, 2017 by legoclone09

[steve_v]

35 minutes ago, legoclone09 said:

They're like $40 (a little expensive for me, but worth it I guess) and I was poking fun at novideo Nvidia.

Eh, it's not that big an outlay next to two current-gen cards. If you're going to SLI 10xx series cards, you're probably not going for cost as a primary concern.
Benchmarks are showing a significant performance benefit to the added bandwidth of the HB bridge, and if there's that much data being transferred, it's a pretty good call not putting it on the PCIE bus IMO.

If you're willing to forgo the extra bandwidth, the old flexible bridges still work too - and they're only ~10USD.

Edited January 14, 2017 by steve_v

[Elthy]

Using Crossfire/SLI is most of the time a bad idea. There are lots of issues with it:

-Bad scaling, you wont get a 100% increase in FPS, but maybe 50% on average
-Due to microlags those higher FPS can still seem laggy, its especialy bad with cards of different strenght
-VRAM doesnt get added, both cards have to store all the data
-Loud cooling, lots of heat and a gigant energy usage

-And the most important: The support for SLI/Crossfire is dropping, less and less new games will use it. Your second card will go to waste.

 

Instead of buying 2 cards you should allways buy the next better one, SLI/Crossfire only makes sense for the Titan. E.g. a 1070 will be better than two 1060/480 in almost all games.

[DeadOnDuna]

5 hours ago, Elthy said:

Using Crossfire/SLI is most of the time a bad idea. There are lots of issues with it:

-Bad scaling, you wont get a 100% increase in FPS, but maybe 50% on average
-Due to microlags those higher FPS can still seem laggy, its especialy bad with cards of different strenght
-VRAM doesnt get added, both cards have to store all the data
-Loud cooling, lots of heat and a gigant energy usage

 

All the above are true but ... the most important factor is if the game supports SLI/Crossfire . If it does you'll see a major performance boost also SLI/Crossfire helps with other apps like video editing and more ...

5 hours ago, Elthy said:

Instead of buying 2 cards you should allways buy the next better one, SLI/Crossfire only makes sense for the Titan. E.g. a 1070 will be better than two 1060/480 in almost all games.

Don't forget that we are talking about a 800$ pc... you can't afford a hi-end GPU with that budget ... but you can afford (... darn i just realizes i'm poor ) to pay 200$ in a couple of months if you realize that   SLI/Crossfire will benefit you in some way...

 

[Elthy]

1 hour ago, DeadOnDuna said:

All the above are true but ... the most important factor is if the game supports SLI/Crossfire . If it does you'll see a major performance boost also SLI/Crossfire helps with other apps like video editing and more ...

Don't forget that we are talking about a 800$ pc... you can't afford a hi-end GPU with that budget ... but you can afford (... darn i just realizes i'm poor ) to pay 200$ in a couple of months if you realize that   SLI/Crossfire will benefit you in some way...

 

Especialy if you dont have much money dont go multi-gpu, its the worst performance/money you can get. A GTX 1070 would be faster (on average) than two 1060/480 while also being cheaper, using half the energy (thus also enabling you to safe on the PSU), be more quiet and prowide more stable FPS. If you cant afford it just buy one 480, and use the 200$ for something else.

[Camacha]

On 14/01/2017 at 8:39 AM, Elthy said:

Using Crossfire/SLI is most of the time a bad idea. There are lots of issues with it:

-Bad scaling, you wont get a 100% increase in FPS, but maybe 50% on average

[...]
-Due to microlags those higher FPS can still seem laggy, its especialy bad with cards of different strenght
 

While your conclusion is correct without a doubt, these two arguments are not quite true. Scaling often is much better than 50%. Adding a third and fourth card means less optimal scaling, but having a second card more often than not almost doubles the performance.

Cards of different strength are not likely to be an issue, since anyone will know to use similar cards.

That being said, going with a single card solution, or better yet, a single GPU solution, almost always is the preferred scenario, due to some of the reasons you mention.

[Elthy]

1 hour ago, Camacha said:

While your conclusion is correct without a doubt, these two arguments are not quite true. Scaling often is much better than 50%. Adding a third and fourth card means less optimal scaling, but having a second card more often than not almost doubles the performance.

Ok, if Crossfire/SLI works its better than 50%, true. The "on average" was about all games, counting in those who dont support multi GPU, but thats not correct since i made that an extra point.

[Camacha]

On 15/01/2017 at 11:34 PM, Elthy said:

Ok, if Crossfire/SLI works its better than 50%, true. The "on average" was about all games, counting in those who dont support multi GPU, but thats not correct since i made that an extra point.

Averages can confuse matter sometimes. The AAA games mostly support multicard setups. Games that do not are often not very graphically intensive.

[p1t1o]

I have always seen SLI as a good upgrade option if you can acquire a duplicate of the card you already have, but if you are setting up a system from scratch its best to buy the best single card for your money, rather than getting two - which all seems to make sense.

***

I have heard anecdotally, that an SLI graphics card setup only utilises the VRAM from one card, ie: you get the performance from both processors, but the RAM does not add together.

Can anyone confirm/deny this?

Edited January 19, 2017 by p1t1o

[cantab]

36 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

I have heard anecdotally, that an SLI graphics card setup only utilises the VRAM from one card, ie: you get the performance from both processors, but the RAM does not add together.

That's correct. Each card holds a duplicate copy of the data in its VRAM. So technically the VRAM in both cards is *used*, but the amount available is effectively the same as using just one card.

[Cuky]

I need a second opinion guys.

My friend recently asked me if I could build a new PC for her father to replace his 10-ish years old he is still using now for a budget of about 200€ (1500-1600kn here in Croatia). He is using his PC for web browsing, occasionaly watches videos on youtube, writes documents in MS Word and her younger sister plays some online games.

I browsed online shops here in Croatia and the best I could find for that amount of money was this (prices rounded up to a higher value just because of ever changing rates):

CPU: Intel Pentium G3260 3,3GHz - 67€

MBO: Asus H81M-R - 42€

RAM: 4GB DDR3 Kingston Valueram 1600MHz - 32€

PSU: Antec VP400PC EC 400W - 40€

Case: LC Power 2009MB - 22€

 

They opted to re-use HDD and optical drive from their current PC as they were bought new recently.

Is there maybe a better CPU to consider that I may have overlooked? I never really look at those lover end components because I use my PC for gaming, so I found myself a bit lost here. Also about power supply, I am aware that 400W is way too much for system like this one, but I just couldn't find a good 300W PSU that is not way overpriced compared to this one.

[Elthy]

Not sure about the prices in your country, but maybe a combination of a Kaby-Lake Pentium (way faster since they got hyperthreading), a H110 mainboard (not sure if all are compatible) and DDR4 Ram is about the same price, while being slightly better. Also i would recommend a SSD, the extreme performance improvement would justify a 25% price increase.

[Cuky]

First thing I looked were Kabylake Pentium CPUs, but I haven't found any in stores here. Only i3, i5 and i7 CPUs from Kabylake line are available. I have suggested a 120GB SSD to them but they told me that they would think about that.

[legoclone09]

Right now the best thing you can do is wait for Ryzen. Buying a new washing machine? Wait for Ryzen

It's confirmed coming out before March 3.

[Elthy]

5 hours ago, legoclone09 said:

Right now the best thing you can do is wait for Ryzen. Buying a new washing machine? Wait for Ryzen

It's confirmed coming out before March 3.

I seriosly doubt Ryzen will have any product in the ~60$ price range any time soon. Especialy since you would need an extra GPU. The Ryzen/Vega APUs are still more than 6 months away, no point in waiting for them (although im sure they will be awesome).

[legoclone09]

Just now, Elthy said:

I seriosly doubt Ryzen will have any product in the ~60$ price range any time soon. Especialy since you would need an extra GPU. The Ryzen/Vega APUs are still more than 6 months away, no point in waiting for them (although im sure they will be awesome).

Yeah, I doubt they will. I think a RX460+Pentium G4560 is the best choice at this point.

[Alphasus]

1 hour ago, legoclone09 said:

Yeah, I doubt they will. I think a RX460+Pentium G4560 is the best choice at this point.

Wouldn't a GTX 1050 be better because it's faster? Or do you mean a 4GB RX460, in which case I recommend a 1050 ti, which is, I'm very sure, faster.

[legoclone09]

1 hour ago, Alphasus said:

Wouldn't a GTX 1050 be better because it's faster? Or do you mean a 4GB RX460, in which case I recommend a 1050 ti, which is, I'm very sure, faster.

GTX 1050 has a higher clock speed, all Nvidia cards do. A RX 460 is neck and neck with a GTX 1050 I believe, but eventually will outperform it due to the way AMD's driver updates work. It's also optimized for DirectX 12 and Vulkan, so it's a better deal. Also a RX 460 4GB ASUS STRIX for $96 is not a bad deal, either. Rebate expires on Jan 31, though. RX 470 is neck-and-neck with the GTX 1050ti and will outperform it in DirectX12/Vulkan games. MSi's Twin Frozr cooler is the best right now I believe, mine on my RX 480 8GB runs very quietly and I can run most games at 1080p/Ultra at 60+FPS, most graphically intensive game I play is Titanfall 2, I average above 60FPS. AMD is also great for FreeSync as well.

EDIT: Found this graph

Edited January 20, 2017 by legoclone09

[Elthy]

There is no GPU needed at all, since the PC isnt build for gaming...

[Cuky]

That is correct @Elthy I am not building this PC for gaming and it is not for me.

As for components, I managed to find some newer hardware:

CPU: Intel Pentium G4400 (instead of G3260)

MBO: Asrock H110M-DGS (instead of Asus H81M-R)

RAM: Kingston DDR4 4GB (instead of Kingston DDR3 4GB)

PSU: Thermaltake Litepower 350W (instead of ANTEC VP400PC EC, 400W)

 

Price went up by about 7-8€ which I think is pretty good considering better performance of G4400 over G3260

[legoclone09]

1 hour ago, Elthy said:

There is no GPU needed at all, since the PC isnt build for gaming...

Ah, okay. Didn't notice that at first.

@Cuky

27 minutes ago, Cuky said:

That is correct @Elthy I am not building this PC for gaming and it is not for me.

As for components, I managed to find some newer hardware:

CPU: Intel Pentium G4400 (instead of G3260)

MBO: Asrock H110M-DGS (instead of Asus H81M-R)

RAM: Kingston DDR4 4GB (instead of Kingston DDR3 4GB)

PSU: Thermaltake Litepower 350W (instead of ANTEC VP400PC EC, 400W)

 

Price went up by about 7-8€ which I think is pretty good considering better performance of G4400 over G3260

8GB of RAM is a very big improvement and is only about $20 more. A better PSU is always good, Thermaltake rebrands I believe, EVGA has good PSUs. Here's a list that isn't too expensive but also in the HTPC case factor which is really small (Micro ATX would be cheaper but also it's bigger). I also included an aftermarket cooler so it runs cooler and a lot quieter. A 1TB WD Blue HDD for $50 is a good addition as well. Motherboard has a wifi slot on it as well so you don't need Ethernet or a USB wifi card. Case comes with a good PSU as well, with enough wattage to warrant a GPU if you'd ever want one. Also could you link a PCPartpicker list of all the specific components you chose? Not sure how much what you have costs compared to this.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/s3nnjc

Edited January 20, 2017 by legoclone09

[Cuky]

thanks for your time, but thing is I am working on a budget of around 420-430$ for PC + monitor.

I looked at G4560 at the get go, but there are only i3, i5 and i7 CPUs from Kaby Lake lineup available here in Croatia. G4400 is the newest Pentium I could find, so I matched it with a board and RAM that is available, yet doesn't get mi over the budget.

I have also recommended SSD drive to my friends father, but he has not given me his definitive answer on that one yet. GPU is not going to be installed in that PC any time soon as the integrated one is more then enough for what this PC will be used for.

 

This is the pcpartpicker list https://pcpartpicker.com/list/kTD8zM

Note that he plans to reuse his current HDD, but I plan to install the 230GB one I have in my spare parts which I took from my PC when I bought a 1TB drive for myself because I suspect his HDD is with that huge IDE cable, while my 230GB one is with SATA connection.

I couldn't find the case I will build it in on pcpartpicker so here is a link to manufacturer's site http://www.lc-power.com/en/product/gehaeuse/micro-atx/2009mb/

And I couldn't even begin to explain how different prices for hardware are here in Croatia, mostly to do with huge taxes. For example while looking for parts for my new PC I looked into GTX 1060 for a GPU. Here is an example: GeForce GTX 1060 Gaming X 6GB from MSI is currently priced at 276,99$ on Amazon. Here in Croatia the cheapest one is (with exchage rates as they are today) 390$ and that is while it is on sale at the moment. Normal price for that same card is 436$

[legoclone09]

6 minutes ago, Cuky said:

thanks for your time, but thing is I am working on a budget of around 420-430$ for PC + monitor.

I looked at G4560 at the get go, but there are only i3, i5 and i7 CPUs from Kaby Lake lineup available here in Croatia. G4400 is the newest Pentium I could find, so I matched it with a board and RAM that is available, yet doesn't get mi over the budget.

I have also recommended SSD drive to my friends father, but he has not given me his definitive answer on that one yet. GPU is not going to be installed in that PC any time soon as the integrated one is more then enough for what this PC will be used for.

 

This is the pcpartpicker list https://pcpartpicker.com/list/kTD8zM

Note that he plans to reuse his current HDD, but I plan to install the 230GB one I have in my spare parts which I took from my PC when I bought a 1TB drive for myself because I suspect his HDD is with that huge IDE cable, while my 230GB one is with SATA connection.

I couldn't find the case I will build it in on pcpartpicker so here is a link to manufacturer's site http://www.lc-power.com/en/product/gehaeuse/micro-atx/2009mb/

And I couldn't even begin to explain how different prices for hardware are here in Croatia, mostly to do with huge taxes. For example while looking for parts for my new PC I looked into GTX 1060 for a GPU. Here is an example: GeForce GTX 1060 Gaming X 6GB from MSI is currently priced at 276,99$ on Amazon. Here in Croatia the cheapest one is (with exchage rates as they are today) 390$ and that is while it is on sale at the moment. Normal price for that same card is 436$

Yeah, prices have huge differences in Europe. I always forget that a lot of people online aren't from the USA. Seems to be a good part list, but a second 4GB stick of RAM would make a big difference, if you can afford it.