[0.22] B9 Aerospace Pack / R4.0c / New pods, IVAs, engines, fuselages & structures

[maclypse]

Whenever I mount wings to the s2 wide body cargo bay, I get off-center lift. It's not a massive amount, but stack a few wings on and the offcenter lift becomes visible. Took me a while to notice it, and I really only noticed because my spaceplane just wouldn't bloody fly straight.

I'm on latest b9 in KSP .23 with updated DLLs, FAR installed.

[Wren]

I have updated firespittter and exsurgentengineering dlls and now sabre engines work, however the lander legs do not. The horizontal and the vertical heavy landing legs do not deploy.

[Konnor]

Since 0.23 KSP update I am experiencing gear wobbling even with Kerbal Joint Reinforcement. Not sure, maybe the reason is different height, but some designs have become particularily impossible (such as mounting Mk1-sized engines to the side of S2 fuselage or mounting engines on the wingtips). Stock gear work just fine.

Whenever I mount wings to the s2 wide body cargo bay, I get off-center lift.

I get this too. Mounting wings a bit lower and rotating them to horizontal orientation solves this.

[Hector_919]

first: please keep in mind that the version of B9 you are using is designed to work with KSP 0.22, not 0.23 - bugs are to be expected here.

second: I fixed most of the wobbling gear problem in KSP 0.22 without Kerbal joint reinforcement by placing the 1.25m Fuel tanks or fuselages underneath my construction - these parts are seemingly less susceptible to gear wobbling.

Moving the last axis of wheels leaving the runway on takeoff closer to the center of mass, decreasing the torque necessary for pitching the plane upwards also helped a lot.

I have no explanation for the off-center CoL, my suggestion would be to wait for the 0.23 update of B9.

greetings

Hector

[wasmic]

Hmm, since the wheels apparently only start wobbling once the craft gets up to speed, it's got me thinking: since almost all aircraft in KSP have their CoL behind their CoM, the back of the aircraft should lift first. The reson that this doesn't happen is that the player will always be pressing s until the plane takes off. But pressing s will induce additional downforce, and that might become too much for the gears to handle. Does this sound like a plausible explanation?

[BubbaWilkins]

Hmm, since the wheels apparently only start wobbling once the craft gets up to speed, it's got me thinking: since almost all aircraft in KSP have their CoL behind their CoM, the back of the aircraft should lift first. The reson that this doesn't happen is that the player will always be pressing s until the plane takes off. But pressing s will induce additional downforce, and that might become too much for the gears to handle. Does this sound like a plausible explanation?

First, your craft has to have a near neutral or slightly elevated nose stance at a stand still. If your nose is pointing down at all, then you have a negative attack angle on your wings which will push down harder on the gear as you gain speed.

Secondly, your rear landing gear needs to be far enough ahead of your rear control surfaces, but still slightly behind the CoM. This allows enough leverage from the rear control surfaces to force the nose up.

Third, wherever your gear is attached must be rigid and not subject to flexing as the wings take over the load from the landing gear.

Fourth, make sure your control surfaces are set to the correct actions. If you have control surfaces on your wings (non delta craft) which are active during pitch inputs, they can have the effect of negating the rear control inputs.

You can make compromises to overcome some issues, such as placing the gear so the nose is slightly elevated to start with. That eliminates the need for the rear gear to act as a pivot and the craft will likely take off as soon as sufficient speed is attained. You can also place forward control surfaces to lift the front of the craft.

Edited January 7, 2014 by BubbaWilkins

[Andon]

So I've been poking around in the config files for landing gear and testing things. Reducing the sideways stiffness in the config files (GameData\B9_Aerospace\Parts\Utility_Landing_Gear_HDG) improves the performance. Initially, I thought increasing it would work better, but then I didn't make it 10m down the runway before disassembly. Reducing it to 0.05 (Yes, just a random number) made it take off like a dream. I'm going to poke around and see how high it'll tolerate before it starts to destroy itself.

[Hammer Tech]

And nobody noticed scott manley himself just replied on this thread!!

I believe I mentioned it?

[Andon]

Relevant to my prior post: Reducing it to 1 or so is fine for small light aircraft. For any sort of large aircraft, I've had to reduce it to... 0.0125 is my only success on a moderately large craft. Larger ones would probably need even lower values (Perhaps even 0? I'm not entirely sure what this even DOES).

[wasmic]

First, your craft has to have a near neutral or slightly elevated nose stance at a stand still. If your nose is pointing down at all, then you have a negative attack angle on your wings which will push down harder on the gear as you gain speed.

Secondly, your rear landing gear needs to be far enough ahead of your rear control surfaces, but still slightly behind the CoM. This allows enough leverage from the rear control surfaces to force the nose up.

Third, wherever your gear is attached must be rigid and not subject to flexing as the wings take over the load from the landing gear.

Fourth, make sure your control surfaces are set to the correct actions. If you have control surfaces on your wings (non delta craft) which are active during pitch inputs, they can have the effect of negating the rear control inputs.

You can make compromises to overcome some issues, such as placing the gear so the nose is slightly elevated to start with. That eliminates the need for the rear gear to act as a pivot and the craft will likely take off as soon as sufficient speed is attained. You can also place forward control surfaces to lift the front of the craft.

I was just throwing a hypothesis out. I haven't actually had any problems with the landing gear myself.

[madadam]

I can confirm both wobbly landing gear and off center center of lift with the wide cargo bay. The off-center lift was present also in 0.22, but the wobbly gears started only in 0.23. I strongly suspect the wobbly gears is a bug in b9 as opposed to a bad craft design, because simply replacing the b9 gears with the the stock ones without changing anything else solves the problem. I'm also using FAR, so it could be that the off-center lift happens only when using both b9 and FAR together. I'm inclined to blame b9 in this case though, because with any other part except the wide cargo bay, the center of lift is perfectly centered. I guess we just have to wait for the official b9 update to 0.23.

[Bloodbunny]

Yeah .23 broke all my planes.. perfect spaceplanes that flew like a dream killed the brothers kerman before they made it halfway down the runway

No, not redesigning my planes because the Kerbals outsourced their landing gear industry to Khina, cfg edits here I come...

[Castun]

If by off-center lift you mean the plane always pulls to the side on the runway, even with a perfectly symmetrical build? Because that's been happening for a long time, and I don't think that's limited to cargo bays. Or are you talking about something else?

Also, first time trying to build any planes since .21, and thought I suddenly got bad at plane design with the wobbly gears. The B9 Heinlein or whatever doesn't seem to suffer from this problem, but that thing has a ton of those invisible strut pieces too I think to keep everything from flexing.

[robogungt8]

any eta on release date of a new B9 with official support for KSP .23?

[Sugoi]

Has anybody else tried Joint Reinforcement with B9?

any eta on release date of a new B9 with official support for KSP .23?

The horse's mouth. tl;dr, "no [solid] ETA," and, "the coming weeks".

[Raven.]

any eta on release date of a new B9 with official support for KSP .23?

Not that I'm aware. There's a few things to take into consideration.

1) 0.23 released just in time for the holidays. When the holidays hit, I temporarily dropped all of my side projects because I was more interested in three things, family, girlfriend, and food. I reckon that it's a similar issue with Bac9; he's likely still out for the holidays and probably didn't look at the stuff until just recently.

2) B9 features a lot of content that would need to be updated in order to work with the new tweakables system. This, will take a while. Not to mention, but I also think that he may be coming out with new parts?

All in all, B9 is my favorite mod for KSP, and I am very grateful to Bac9 for creating and sharing this content with the community. In fact, of all the mod friendly games that I have played (ranging from Morrowind all the way to X3), B9 is probably one of the most well done mods that I have seen released for a game. And Bac9 should know that. To me, it is worth the wait for an update. In fact, I would even be happy to help, either helping with the plugins or with helping test the thing.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Raven.

[madnessinmysoul]

For all those asking for the ETA, this is a giant mod that seems to be getting a giant addition (and seriously, I wish I knew what future additions bac9 was dreaming up), so be patient. Quality takes time, and you've all seen the incredible quality we've gotten so far.

[Hector_919]

The off-center lift was present also in 0.22, but the wobbly gears started only in 0.23.

No they didn't. I had them in 0.22 already and posted the probelm here. Try Kerbal joint reinforcement to make your crft work again (and even better than before) - or try attaching the gears to the 1.25m Fuel Tanks / Fuselages supplied by B9 Aerospace (which you may need to ad to your craft).

Both could solve the problem for me on their own - together the will solve yours for sure.

[Crazierinzane]

Not that I'm aware. There's a few things to take into consideration.

1) 0.23 released just in time for the holidays. When the holidays hit, I temporarily dropped all of my side projects because I was more interested in three things, family, girlfriend, and food. I reckon that it's a similar issue with Bac9; he's likely still out for the holidays and probably didn't look at the stuff until just recently.

2) B9 features a lot of content that would need to be updated in order to work with the new tweakables system. This, will take a while. Not to mention, but I also think that he may be coming out with new parts?

All in all, B9 is my favorite mod for KSP, and I am very grateful to Bac9 for creating and sharing this content with the community. In fact, of all the mod friendly games that I have played (ranging from Morrowind all the way to X3), B9 is probably one of the most well done mods that I have seen released for a game. And Bac9 should know that. To me, it is worth the wait for an update.

I agree with this sentiment. Please don't rush the artist.

[British_Rover]

No they didn't. I had them in 0.22 already and posted the probelm here. Try Kerbal joint reinforcement to make your crft work again (and even better than before) - or try attaching the gears to the 1.25m Fuel Tanks / Fuselages supplied by B9 Aerospace (which you may need to ad to your craft).

Both could solve the problem for me on their own - together the will solve yours for sure.

Strutting the gear bays to the fuselage or wing also help. Use the invisible B9 struts.

[madadam]

If by off-center lift you mean the plane always pulls to the side on the runway, even with a perfectly symmetrical build? Because that's been happening for a long time, and I don't think that's limited to cargo bays. Or are you talking about something else?

No, the pulling to the side of the runway is a different problem which can be fixed by strutting your plane more. The off-center lift bug is when you attach wings to the wide cargo bay part from b9, the center-of-lift indicator will be slightly shifted to one side. It does not happen with other parts. It was happening in 0.22 and it is still happening in 0.23. There is probably some slight asymmetry in the cargo bay model or something like that.

[madadam]

No they didn't. I had them in 0.22 already and posted the probelm here. Try Kerbal joint reinforcement to make your crft work again (and even better than before) - or try attaching the gears to the 1.25m Fuel Tanks / Fuselages supplied by B9 Aerospace (which you may need to ad to your craft).

Both could solve the problem for me on their own - together the will solve yours for sure.

I was using Kerbal Joint Reinforcement in 0.22 and did not have the wobbly gear problem. I'm using it now and have the issue. Also, as I said, replacing the b9 gears with the stock ones got rid of the wobblyness for me. So this to me seems that something got broken in b9 after the 0.23 upgrade. I might try attaching the gears to different parts to see if it helps, but I'm not too worried about this. The stock gears work well enough for me. I can wait for the official update.

[m1sz]

I haven't played Kerbal since 0.23 hits, because I'm waiting for this mod!

As other said, quality takes time

[maclypse]

If by off-center lift you mean the plane always pulls to the side on the runway, even with a perfectly symmetrical build? Because that's been happening for a long time, and I don't think that's limited to cargo bays. Or are you talking about something else?

Also, first time trying to build any planes since .21, and thought I suddenly got bad at plane design with the wobbly gears. The B9 Heinlein or whatever doesn't seem to suffer from this problem, but that thing has a ton of those invisible strut pieces too I think to keep everything from flexing.

No, I'm talking about actual off-center lift. It's like the wing on one side is mounted 1 inch further out from the fuselage. It actually moves the center of lift a little bit over to the right side of the aircraft, resulting in a plane that continuously rolls over to the left.

While it's possible to see the actual center of lift move off center in the SPH, I can't actually see the wings being mounted incorrectly. It's not a very big and visible thing - but it's enough to render an aircraft quite unstable.

[synik4l]

I was using Kerbal Joint Reinforcement in 0.22 and did not have the wobbly gear problem. I'm using it now and have the issue. Also, as I said, replacing the b9 gears with the stock ones got rid of the wobblyness for me. So this to me seems that something got broken in b9 after the 0.23 upgrade. I might try attaching the gears to different parts to see if it helps, but I'm not too worried about this. The stock gears work well enough for me. I can wait for the official update.

Did you install the new ExsurgentEngineering.dll and firespitter.dll?

I haven't played Kerbal since 0.23 hits, because I'm waiting for this mod!

As other said, quality takes time

You can technically use it now. By using the new ExsurgentEngineering.dll and firespitter.dll ive been using b9 for like 3 weeks now.

Seems like alot of people are having the problems with the planes. But ive been using the parts for rockets and havent had any issues.