Xeldrak

What did you do in KSP today?

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4 hours ago, Espatie said:

I've been trying to make basic planes. I can make them fly, but it's about 50/50 on walking away from the inevitable crash on landing.

How the hell are you supposed to land these things?

An ILS helps, whether a dedicated mod such as NavUtilities or with a stock setup. Have to skedaddle right now or I'd go through the process of setting up a stock one. Will edit this post later.

EDIT: Wheel setup is important too - any issues you have with your wheels at takeoff are going to come back to bite you at landing for sure. For beginners, I'd recommend locking your steering on the all the wheels if you have the option, putting the brakes to 200 in the back and less up front, turning your traction to 5 in the back and 2.5 up front, and bumping up the damper on the front gear. This is assuming you've got something akin to a tricycle gear setup, which works for most planes. At touchdown, you want to try to not have a vertical speed much more than 10 m/s, preferably 5. And forget about using the crummy bushplane gear you get early on for anything other than ersatz rovers. By the same token, you should wait until the Runway is at least level 2 before trying to fly anything with intent of actually landing it back on the Runway. Preferably wait until the Runway is fully upgraded.

Now for an ILS setup in stock - you'll use something to mark out positions. Flags would work if they didn't occasionally spontaneously combust, so in the past I generally used cheap little probe-rovers (the aforementioned bushplane gear with a Stayputnik core and maybe a Juno-based engine setup cobbled onto a piece of Structural Fuselage work well). Put one on each end of the Runway as close to the center of the strip as you can, and then drive a few out towards the west (towards the mountains). Plop one at 1 kilometer out, the next at 5 and then at 5 kilometer intervals for as far out as you feel like setting it up. Try to keep them aligned as best you can. If you have KER, you want to try to keep the latitude the same at each spot. Just target the last one you set out and go five klicks. Name each rover/flag/whatever as the distance to the runway that it corresponds to. If you re-name them as bases, you can see them from much further out; you should definitely do this with at least the one at the west end of the Runway and the one furthest west for sure.

Now, when you're landing with that system, keep an eye on your altimeter as you approach. You can eyeball a reasonably good horizontal alignment with the flags/probes as you approach, and as you fly over them, you want your altimeter reading to be (in meters) whatever the distance to the Runway is in kilometers times ten, plus 100. For example, when you fly over the fifteen kilometer marker, you want your altimeter reading to be roughly 1600m. If it's higher, you're too high - increase your rate of descent a bit, and vice versa. This gives you roughly a 5-6 degree glide slope, a bit steeper than what your average commercial pilot goes for but it works and the math isn't as terrible. Watch your speed too - generally you want it more than 100 m/s but less than 150 if you're flying a decent-sized plane with stock air. One airbrake per engine helps tremendously with speed control.

Best advice - when you're about fifteen to twenty klicks out, F5 to quicksave. Always. Get it the damn habit. If you botch the landing, F9 to quickload and try again. Practice, practice, practice...

Best of luck to you. Planes are tricky when you're getting started with them - I remember several rage quits my own self.

Edited by capi3101

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4 hours ago, Espatie said:

How the hell are you supposed to land these things?

I recommend using wheels.

 

That said, are you playing career?  Landing a plane with early landing gear on that bumpy runway with the crappy stock wheel physics/settings is ironically not for beginners.

If you are in career, I recommend loading up a sandbox game with the more advanced parts and get your skill honed first.

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4 hours ago, Espatie said:

How the hell are you supposed to land these things?

Practise :)

That and have a plane that handles well below ~80m/s, with widely-spaced landing gear that is appropriate for its weight of the vessel, and a shallow approach profile with a vertical descent speed of less than 5m/s - the gentler the touchdown the better.

If you can't get OFF the runway at low speeds, you're going to have a problem getting down onto it again without something breaking.

Airbrakes help a lot to manage your speed, but failing that a drogue chute (or any chute) on the tail can be used to kill your speed fast once you're on the deck.

Edited by eddiew

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Today well yesterday i was playing some KSS (Rest In Peace) Career and i was trying to get to orbit, I have mostly level 1 buildings but my mission control is level 2, im not that far on the tech tree and i get so close but run out of fuel at the last minute, so fricking annoying

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Thanks for all the advice folks; yes, it's a career save, with only Aviation parts. I'm coming in as shallow as I can manage; about 300 above SL, which is 230 above the runway and I start bringing it down from there as I cross the coastline. Reliably it bounces every time.

 

I'll try playing with the gear settings. I've just rescued another two pilots, so I can afford a death, maybe.

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Launched a satellite into orbit. The orbit is retrograde, but it's high SMA allowed me to launch normally, then simply reverse the trajectory.
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As for the equation I posted: It still works perfectly. However, due to the different methods used by KSP and Principia to draw their orbits, I had to do a correction burn later.
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6 hours ago, Espatie said:

I've been trying to make basic planes. I can make them fly, but it's about 50/50 on walking away from the inevitable crash on landing.

 

How the hell are you supposed to land these things?

Carefully. ;)

All joking aside, I'd say you're having controllability at low speeds? Try larger control surfaces, or a higher approach speed. 10 m/s faster across the threshold doesn't change your stopping distance all that much, and it will significantly improve control response.

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47 minutes ago, Espatie said:

Thanks for all the advice folks; yes, it's a career save, with only Aviation parts. I'm coming in as shallow as I can manage; about 300 above SL, which is 230 above the runway and I start bringing it down from there as I cross the coastline. Reliably it bounces every time.

 

I'll try playing with the gear settings. I've just rescued another two pilots, so I can afford a death, maybe.

Can we see the plane you're using? Also, important question - stock air or FAR?

Without looking at your plane, I'd say try turning up your dampers like I suggested earlier. You might also want to set up your gear such that you're nose-down 2-3 degrees while on the runway; planes like that tend not to bounce as badly, though that setup puts more stress on the gear at landing.

Edited by capi3101

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I've tried several planes; there's a fairly limited number of ways to put the parts I have together though.

 

Oh and Stock air... I've heard of FAR but I haven't modded flight stuff at all yet.

Edited by Espatie

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Yesterday's activities began with the landing of the revised SCSS 7a garbage-collection craft twenty meters from a target MOLE Mark One Habitat (previously reported as a MOLE lab, but honestly they look the same) on the surface of Minmus. Owing to the fact that it was nighttime, pilot Geofbles Kerman, scientist Kathald Kerman and engineer Sulan Kerman opted to wait until the following morning before attempting to load the hab onto the prow of their craft. When morning came, the trio got out of their craft and conducted the arduous process of rolling the hab up to their ship. Once there, Sulan proceeded to attach it to a series of cubic octagonal struts using a KAS screwdriver that had been brought along for the job. Job finished, the three loaded back aboard and returned to orbit over Minmus.

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Finally got this stupid hunk of loose garbage off the ground. Only took three tries...

The craft then affected a rendezvous with the Non Mentha Yards in low equatorial orbit over Minmus.

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<Play_Flash_Gordon_theme /> ♫ duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh ♫ / ♫ NIGHT! ♫ / ♫ SCREEEENNNIIIEEEEE!!!!!! ♫ 

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Gregbles had the toughest time on this mission - once the hab was cut loose he went spinning around...reminded me of Xactar's old "All Kerb'd Up" series on YouTube. Science in Progress!!!

Once the habitat was released near the station, the SCSS proceeded to fifty meters off the station and the crew returned via jetpacks.

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Sulan suggests that I update the design of the SCSS to include a docking port next time. I told her it's good to get practice doing EVAs occasionally, as long as you remember to bring your helmet...

The craft itself was then recycled in NMY's drydock, and printing of a Bill Clinton 7b grabber probe commenced; this probe will carry the habitat the rest of the way to Kerbin for contract.

In other news, LSV House Harkonnen conducted a warp from equatorial orbit over Ike to polar orbit, where it continued the printing of a fourth and final Pink Noise 7 communications satellite carrier probe for the Duna/Ike SOI. The probe was completed by the end of the day, at which time Harkonnen began printing up a Booger Flinger 7 scanning satellite, which ultimately became ScanSat Ike upon launch. While the ScanSat was printing, pilot Billy-Bobcal Kerman did a quick EVA over Ike and transmitted a crew report, completing two of the requirements for the current Ike exploration contract. The three communications satellites - Ikecomms Delta, Echo and Foxtrot, also reached their target positions, finishing out the comm satellite constellation in Ike's SOI. Once ScanSat Ike was launched and out of physics range, Harkonnen warped directly back for Kerbin; the ship is currently conducting "yo-yoing" warps to bring her speed down enough to enter orbit.

The McFeely Sr. 7 large speedy science delivery craft returned safely to orbit over Kerbin and made an attempt to rendezvous with space station Kerbinport in equatorial orbit. Unfortunately, the craft ran out of fuel during the rendezvous burn. An Exxon Valdez 7 emergency refueling craft was sent up to rendezvous with the McFeely, docking and refueling the craft successfully.

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McFeely Sr. 7 docking with an Exxon Valdez 7 craft. Shortly after this screenie was taken, the Valdez design was updated to include monoprop tanks and bleedin' solar panels - only been needing to do those changes since v. 1.0...

A second attempt to rendezvous with Kerbinport also failed due to insufficient fuel, and in desperation on the second attempt, the probe's drive stage was cut loose (to no avail). A second Valdez rendezvous and docking flight was required to finally bring the McFeely to Kerbinport, where it finally docked and retrieved a LDEF Power Tools experiment from the station. The McFeely re-docked with the Valdez, at which point the Valdez de-orbited both craft and the McFeely was cut loose. Both craft were successfully retrieved.

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McFeely Sr. 7 at splashdown. The game didn't give me the credit for the gravioli wave and power tools contracts despite having finished all the requirements, so it was necessary to hack them complete. I hate it when I have to do that...

Aside from all that, not much else has happened. Strange Cargo returned to Kerbin this morning and docked safely at Kerbinport, transferring all of her onboard tourists to a waiting Auk II 8-passenger spaceplane, which then departed the station to return to the surface. The plane hasn't conducted its de-orbit burn as of this posting, but it's next on my to-do list. Once that's done (barring any change in plan), a group of colonists will be heading up to Kerbinport and departing for the Piper Alpha outpost on Mun aboard Strange Cargo. Harkonnen is scheduled for resupply as soon as she attains orbit over Kerbin, and she's scheduled to begin printing up a TBD 7c base-seeding rover as soon as she has the necessary equipment aboard; this will begin the processing of setting up permanent outposts in the Duna/Ike SOI. Finally, it's nearly dawn at Mun Outpost 1 near Piper Alpha, so a scheduled mission to finish establishing the outpost can get back under way. All in all, things remain pretty busy for me and my space program as a whole.

12 minutes ago, Espatie said:

I've tried several planes; there's a fairly limited number of ways to put the parts I have together though.

 

Oh and Stock air... I've heard of FAR but I haven't modded flight stuff at all yet.

Fair enough. Which one you ultimately go with is a matter of personal preference anyway, and since your issues are mainly with landing, it probably doesn't matter too terribly much.

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7 hours ago, Castille7 said:

You peeps are bringing back some memories, I put 33 on Minmus!

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That looks like a vending machine for kerbals... as content, not customers that is.

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I had a orbiter and lander arrive at Moho. Both had similar performance for capturing into orbit using the ion engine to capture. They were launched months ago about an hour apart (big mistake) at the tail end of a launch window meaning they arrived within about an hour of each other (big problem).  I wasted a day reloading and reloading trying to figure out how to capture into orbit with the Dawn engine when MechJeb was telling me I needed almost a 90 minute burn and I was only in the SOI for 25 minutes and wouldn't execute the maneuver node until I was in the SOI. Today I gave up on MechJeb and did it by hand. I got the orbiter to capture.

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The problem was being forced to watch the orbiter burn for so long, meant I couldn't carry out the same maneuvers on the lander in time to keep it from flying right past Moho. Since I proved to myself I could capture and any real space agency would be able to manage simultaneous missions with overlapping burns. I ended up just using hyperedit to put the lander into an orbit that at least approximated one that I would have captured into had I been able to juggle the two spacecraft at the same time and I dumped the Xenon that should have been used for capturing. Next time I'll have to remember to stagger launches to the same destination a little further apart. 

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Lots of pictures, and by that I mean 12. Bear with me.

I was looking for asteroids to capture. I do that only if the orbit has a periapsis close to Kerbin or is colliding with it.
This asteroid was on a collision course with Kerbin, and while it was just a class A, a very interesting path was plotted to get there are early as possible.
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I eventually rendezvoused with it and corrected the orbit to have a near-Kerbin periapsis.
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In the meantime, while I was coasting to periapsis, Jeb, Bill and Bob decided that now is a good time to show up after over 2 years of orbiting Kerbol from a Duna encounter.
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Firing the engines up one last time. Entering the atmosphere at over 3600m/s could have unintended consequences.
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Anyways; back to the main mission: Redirecting the asteroid.
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Setting up a nice orbit close in MKO(?), about 1000km above the surface.
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I then deorbited, and upon opening the map view I found myself looking at this path:
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The Duna mission got a lot of science back. I now have over 1400 points; I started the ARM with ~200. That's more than I can spend right now!
I also decided to sit out this year's Duna launch window. Give the Kerbals a break, you know?
Both crews just came back from a journey!

There is one more manned mission going on right now: A lander in a Gilly orbit. But I'll have to wait for the appropriate opportunity to return her from there. That hasn't happened yet.

Edited by Delay

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17 hours ago, MaverickSawyer said:

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Which mod adds those rockin' sunglasses??  :D   too bad she doesn't have a nose to hold them up

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On 1/12/2019 at 6:35 AM, Bubbadevlin said:

Today I finished the second stage of my lander when i do not even have any of the rocket completed (or the first stage of the lander for that matter!)

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Overhauling my old 1:1 Apollo replica is going to take a while... At least now there will be some significant aesthetics improvements with the new part skins, stock KSP parts don't look TOO bad anymore

That is incredible. What is the part count on the ascent stage?

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51 minutes ago, Tyko said:

Which mod adds those rockin' sunglasses??  :D   too bad she doesn't have a nose to hold them up

Kerbal Hacks: 

 

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53 minutes ago, Tyko said:

Which mod adds those rockin' sunglasses??  :D   too bad she doesn't have a nose to hold them up

 

Edited by DeltaDizzy

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I sent a couple of space probes to orbit Minmus. I also launched two out of three modules for the first space station in this save. Details can be found here.

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More adventures in 1.6 career gaming, today with the focus on rescue contracts.

Sent up a reusable Mun/Minmus rescue bus, to ferry kerbals back to Kerbin orbit to be returned to the surface in cheap re-entry vehicles (well as cheap as my tech level allows). Also delivered a refuelling tanker in the same launch, to sit in Kerbin orbit and wait for the rescue bus to need a top up.

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As proof of concept this little guy took it to the Mun surface to collect a flag raising contract payment.

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He then made a low angle but rapid ascent to orbit.

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Back on Kerbin, the re-entry vehicle cluser was placed in orbit.

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Time for our intrepid bus driver to pick up fuel and return to Mun orbit, this time for a paying passenger.

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What's that you say... something went bang you say... lost something wrong with you ship you say.

Well climb onboard and I'll get you home.

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You're going to have to share a re-entry pod with another stranded space jockey that we picked up earlier.

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Two happy customers returning to the surface.

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4 hours ago, purpleivan said:

That looks like a vending machine for kerbals... as content, not customers that is.

They look like Gummy Bears...lol

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My very long awaited Eeloo remote rover finally entered orbit & landed safely. 

In LEO with transfer stage. 

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Roving around Eeloo's lowlands.   I know the solar panel is almost pointless, but it's not an Eeloo-specific design.

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My 2nd Duna crew bid farewell to their red home for the past year for a quick trip to Ike to check out the heavy mining installation.

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On Ike, sending my engineer over to check out the miner.  It still has the old Mk 2 lander can as it's control center.  Due to time & budget restraints leading up to the launch window, the rover/interface tanker wasn't launched with it, so refueling is currently limited to the reach of the KAS fuel hoses.

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So I manage this kind of thing :)

For now, it can take off easely, control it's VS Changes, as horizontal. But it's almost incontrolable in flight. Maybe some unwanted torque, or just not enough reaction wheels:sticktongue:

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crashed 5 sec laster.. back to SPH :)

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tested the KSP Ferrit fuel taxi prototype at the ksc, its going good so far, if only i could get the center of thrust in a better position, damn thing wasnt to nose dive all the time, it might be easier to control on the mun though, its intended target.
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Finally! After some fixes, the Tiger Moth is completly flyable!

To celebrate, Jeb landed on VAB of course :)

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Jeb is happy, as always, an other flying scrap added to his collection:sticktongue:

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