Simple Life Support Modeling with Stock Parts

[sturmstiger]

As life support systems & additional resource types are not coming any time soon, I created the following 3 simple rules to model life support for my crewed space missions:

1. Every crew pod & cockpit can sustain short missions (10 days or less) for its maximum rated # of kerbalnauts.

2. For missions longer than 10 days, kerbalnauts demand bigger hab space. Any crew pod or cockpit can be designated as long term hab space for half of its maximum rated # of crews. For example, a Hitchhiker pod may be designated as long term hab space for 4 / 2 = 2 kerbals, and a Mk1-2 Command Pod can hold only 3 / 2 = 1 (rounded down) kerbalnaut for long missions.

3. For missions longer than 10 days, kerbalnauts would also need additional life support supplies (food, water, oxygen, toothpaste, etc). Each kerbalnaut needs 1 unit of supply each day, and any fuel tank (rocket, jet, RCS) can be designated as supply storage to provide units of supply equal to its fuel capacity. For example, a FL-T200 Fuel Tank, with a 90-unit fuel capacity, can support 1 kerbal for 90 days, or 2 kerbals for 45 days, etc. Fuel tanks designated as life support supplies obviously can not be used as fuel tanks for engines.

That's it! Now it's easy to design realistic crewed interplanetary & outpost missions with current game engine & stock parts.

Any comments and suggestions? How do you plan your long term crewed missions?

[CoriW]

As life support systems & additional resource types are not coming any time soon, I created the following 3 simple rules to model life support for my crewed space missions:

1. Every crew pod & cockpit can sustain short missions (10 days or less) for its maximum rated # of kerbalnauts.

2. For missions longer than 10 days, kerbalnauts demand bigger hab space. Any crew pod or cockpit can be designated as long term hab space for half of its maximum rated # of crews. For example, a Hitchhiker pod may be designated as long term hab space for 4 / 2 = 2 kerbals, and a Mk1-2 Command Pod can hold only 3 / 2 = 1 (rounded down) kerbalnaut for long missions.

3. For missions longer than 10 days, kerbalnauts would also need additional life support supplies (food, water, oxygen, toothpaste, etc). Each kerbalnaut needs 1 unit of supply each day, and any fuel tank (rocket, jet, RCS) can be designated as supply storage to provide units of supply equal to its fuel capacity. For example, a FL-T200 Fuel Tank, with a 90-unit fuel capacity, can support 1 kerbal for 90 days, or 2 kerbals for 45 days, etc. Fuel tanks designated as life support supplies obviously can not be used as fuel tanks for engines.

That's it! Now it's easy to design realistic crewed interplanetary & outpost missions with current game engine & stock parts.

Any comments and suggestions? How do you plan your long term crewed missions?

Previously I was doing the exact same thing as you were, because like you said life support isn't coming any time soon, and as far as I could tell there weren't any up to date mods for it either. However... Then I stumbled upon this... Ioncross Crew Support, It's pretty much just a simple life support plugin that makes Kerbals require Oxygen, and makes it so they can't survive if the Carbon Dioxide gets too high or if you run out of power and the life support systems shut down. It also adds the ability to acquire Oxygen from Kerbin and Laythes atmospheres.

It doesn't add too many parts either, what it does is modifies the cockpits, capsules, lander can, and hitchhiker storage to use these new resources, and adds 3 Oxygen storage parts, 2 Carbon Dioxide recyclers, and 1 Atmosphere intake. However these parts are currently just using the stock models for the 3 RCS tanks and the Circular Intake, so another member of the forum was kind enough to modify the textures to something more suitable. New Textures

The other up side to the mod is if you go into the part.cfg files for the cockpits, capsules, lander can, hitchhiker storage, or any of the 6 parts it adds, you can very easily modify the capacity and usage of the Oxygen, Carbon Dioxide, and Electricity. All in all it's a simple, fairly customizable life support mod.

EDIT: And the reason I use it instead of your method is because then I don't have to keep track of how long it's been and if the Kerbals have enough stuff to survive. Plus it makes it too easy to just say "Oh, well maybe there was another food storage on board that nobody accounted for!", with the mod, the Kerbals will actually die... Mwahahahaha!

Edited May 19, 2013 by CoriW

[Uncle Mort]

I've never sent my kerbalnauts on long duration missions without some form of additional living space. It just wouldn't seem right somehow.

I've also been thinking about how to realistically provide enough consumables and designating a fuel tank as storage is a good idea especially if you're keeping to stock parts.

I was experimenting with Orbital Construction Redux ( http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/26482-0-19-1-OrbitalConstruction-Redux?highlight=orbitalconstruction+redux'>http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/26482-0-19-1-OrbitalConstruction-Redux?highlight=orbitalconstruction+redux ) recently with the idea of building ships in space. However it still seems a bit buggy so I canned that plan. However the warehouse parts could easily be used as consumables storage and the 'parts' within the warehouse can be transferred from one warehouse to another. I just need a way of 'using up' the parts.

[Rockhem]

Previously I was doing the exact same thing as you were, because like you said life support isn't coming any time soon, and as far as I could tell there weren't any up to date mods for it either. However... Then I stumbled upon this... Ioncross Crew Support, It's pretty much just a simple life support plugin that makes Kerbals require Oxygen, and makes it so they can't survive if the Carbon Dioxide gets too high or if you run out of power and the life support systems shut down. It also adds the ability to acquire Oxygen from Kerbin and Laythes atmospheres.

It doesn't add too many parts either, what it does is modifies the cockpits, capsules, lander can, and hitchhiker storage to use these new resources, and adds 3 Oxygen storage parts, 2 Carbon Dioxide recyclers, and 1 Atmosphere intake. However these parts are currently just using the stock models for the 3 RCS tanks and the Circular Intake, so another member of the forum was kind enough to modify the textures to something more suitable. New Textures

The other up side to the mod is if you go into the part.cfg files for the cockpits, capsules, lander can, hitchhiker storage, or any of the 6 parts it adds, you can very easily modify the capacity and usage of the Oxygen, Carbon Dioxide, and Electricity. All in all it's a simple, fairly customizable life support mod.

How to install textures?

[CoriW]

How to install textures?

Just install the mod then drop the "Part" folder from that zip file (The one with the textures.) into your KSP root directory, it'll ask to overwrite some stuff, and there you go, new textures!

[sturmstiger]

And the reason I use it instead of your method is because then I don't have to keep track of how long it's been and if the Kerbals have enough stuff to survive. Plus it makes it too easy to just say "Oh, well maybe there was another food storage on board that nobody accounted for!", with the mod, the Kerbals will actually die... Mwahahahaha!

Usually I don't need to keep track of how much supply is left during the mission either. I just make sure they have enough when planning my mission & designing my ships, and if everything goes as planned I know they'll be fine. But when something unexpected happen, for example when that Duna Outpost supply lander crashed, that's things got interesting as I'll have to crunch some numbers & improvise to make sure the crew survives - almost feels kind of Mission Control during Apollo 13

[lyndonguitar]

Is it possible to automatically include life support on all crew carrying parts? For example I have installed lots of mods parts for it, so it can work on everypart, not just stock ones, without manually editing every part.cfg

[elkar]

Hardly, there would have to be another .. mod for it or tool.

[NeoMorph]

The Kerbonauts NEED CARBON DIOXIDE and light... Why? because they are plant based.

Oxygen is like carbon dioxide is to us... They breath in CO2 and breath out Oxygen.

Oooh... imagine a mixed Human/Kerbonaut crew. Would be awesome.

[elkar]

The Kerbonauts NEED CARBON DIOXIDE and light... Why? because they are plant based.

Oxygen is like carbon dioxide is to us... They breath in CO2 and breath out Oxygen.

Oooh... imagine a mixed Human/Kerbonaut crew. Would be awesome.

Doesnt work in most crew support mods ..

[Fel]

Is it possible to automatically include life support on all crew carrying parts? For example I have installed lots of mods parts for it, so it can work on everypart, not just stock ones, without manually editing every part.cfg

@ECHO OFF
set modName=INSERT_NAME_HERE

FOR /R %%A IN (part.cfg) DO IF EXIST %%A (
	set hasMod=before
	FOR /F "tokens=2 delims== " %%i in (part.cfg) do IF %%i EQU %modName% set hasMod=after
	if "%hasMod%" NEQ "after" (
		ECHO MODULE>> part.cfg
		ECHO {>> part.cfg
		ECHO name = %modName%>> part.cfg
		ECHO }>> part.cfg
	)
)

Well, I have no idea what this will do XD It is a .BAT file, I wrote it because I was bored.

In THEORY, it will read each and every part.cfg in a directory structure, see if there is an = ModName, and if there isn't add in the mod.

You can add in another flag (or be lazy ) to check if it has "name = commandModule"

I prefer lazy, so

@ECHO OFF
set modName=INSERT_NAME_HERE

FOR /R %%A IN (part.cfg) DO IF EXIST %%A (
	set hasMod=after
	FOR /F "tokens=2 delims== " %%i in (part.cfg) do IF %%i EQU commandModule set hasMod=before
	if "%hasMod%" NEQ "after" (
		ECHO MODULE>> part.cfg
		ECHO {>> part.cfg
		ECHO name = %modName%>> part.cfg
		ECHO }>> part.cfg
	)
)

ialdabaoth hasn't added in wildcards yet, but this also could help

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/28182-GENTLEMEN-BEHOLD!-Never-have-to-distribute-a-modified-part-cfg-again!

[cesarcurado]

The Kerbonauts NEED CARBON DIOXIDE and light... Why? because they are plant based.

How are they plant based?

Also, if they were/are, they would also need oxygen to live, since plants do photosynthesis at day and "breath" 24/7.

[Sir Nahme]

The Devs have already said they AREN'T plant based, its just a silly rumor that won't die

[lyndonguitar]

ialdabaoth hasn't added in wildcards yet, but this also could help

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/28182-GENTLEMEN-BEHOLD!-Never-have-to-distribute-a-modified-part-cfg-again!

Thanks, I may have to tinker with the bat code you mentioned

and the link is useful too

[paleorob]

There is no evidence that they can breathe the atmosphere of Kerbin or Laythe, since they keep their helmets on even during EVA.

[zzz]

There is no evidence that they can breathe the atmosphere of Kerbin or Laythe

Hangar doors is open during construction but engineers are walk without helmets.

Astronauts are always in helmets because contruction of spacesuits - helmets are welded to suit and after setting they stay in it to whole life(which is not too long)

Edited May 20, 2013 by zzz

[maro]

1. Every crew pod & cockpit can sustain short missions (10 days or less) for its maximum rated # of kerbalnauts.

I want to remember

- Gemini 7: 13 days, 18 hours

- Soyuz 9: 17days, 16 hours

Therefore 10 is probably to less. But its also a question what equipment they have on board beside of foodstuff, water, oxygen and so on.

For EVAs they need a pressure suit, probably they have a rack with experiments on board or goods to transport to a space station.

The weight and space margins are rather complex, but for a simplified rule - 10 days is probably the right number.

[sturmstiger]

I want to remember

- Gemini 7: 13 days, 18 hours

- Soyuz 9: 17days, 16 hours

Therefore 10 is probably to less. But its also a question what equipment they have on board beside of foodstuff, water, oxygen and so on.

For EVAs they need a pressure suit, probably they have a rack with experiments on board or goods to transport to a space station.

The weight and space margins are rather complex, but for a simplified rule - 10 days is probably the right number.

Yes I understand some of these crafts can support longer duration missions. But also consider the one-kerbal pod and cockpits, which seemed unsuitable for anything longer than say 3~4 days if humans were inside. But the real distinction I wanted to make is duration-class of missions: ferrying crews between surface and parking orbit, orbital rendezvous for docking, and touch-and-go (Apollo style) Mun / Minmas missions are all considered "short-missions", which shouldn't take more than 10 days. These are compared to planetary transfers, surface outposts & space station missions, which are usually far longer than 10 days.

[paleorob]

Hangar doors is open during construction but engineers are walk without helmets.

Ooh, didn't consider that! You're right!

[Fel]

Ooh, didn't consider that! You're right!

No he isn't.

It is obvious that kerbals are using some kind of force field; they just need the sunlight to operate.