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Mr. Spink

About planned re-entry heating:

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Would it be toggle-able? If not, I may never leave the vacuum of space EVER.

EEEEVVVEERRRRRR.....:mad:

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I believe the developers have said in a previous thread that it would not be possible to toggle it as you can't toggle heating in real life. However there would probably be some sort of inflatable heat shield to protect the ships.

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I feel like it wouldn't be implemented in Sandbox mode, as that mode is just to have fun in and not have to worry about real-life space program problems like reentry heating and costs. However, I'm just guessing here, it could be the devs have an entirely different plan.

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It will be a significant hurdle to overcome, but it isn't the first. Getting a rocket into orbit when the game was first released was quite the challenge for everyone. Then came the Mun and the challenge of landing there, even without the benefit of landing legs when it first appeared. There will be heat shields and other parts to defend against re-entry heat and perhaps against other forms of heat. Those same parts, as any other, will be able to be modified so one can avoid worrying about coming into atmo too steep. Therefore there is every reason to believe it will be implemented in sandbox mode. If re-entry heat proves to be too tough for you, you can easily modify certain parts to become impervious. Leaving any feature central to the experience of spaceflight out of the game experience would take away from the game tenfold. Consider that achieving orbit with a rocket you build yourself is a significant achievement today that newcomers find mindboggling. If you can achieve that, and even make orbit of another planetary body, then something like atmosphere heat should be considered child's play. The developers have yet to tone down the challenge of the game. Expecting them to do so with a feature such as this only hurts your own experience and expectations.

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If it's not toggle-able a mod will make it so. ;)

I personally look forward to it and my biggest achievement is landing on Mun so far. Haven't had time to play it as much as I'd like.

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If it's not toggle-able a mod will make it so. ;)

I personally look forward to it and my biggest achievement is landing on Mun so far. Haven't had time to play it as much as I'd like.

A mod or a debug menu option

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Yes, and while we're at it, lets make it so crashing into the ground isn't bad and spaceships have unlimited fuel and superengines.

Where are your senses of adventure? Can't you see this would just add to the fun by giving you another obstacle to overcome? Re-entry heat will make the game better in every way.

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I feel like it wouldn't be implemented in Sandbox mode, as that mode is just to have fun in and not have to worry about real-life space program problems like reentry heating and costs. However, I'm just guessing here, it could be the devs have an entirely different plan.

I have fun with re-entry heating. It's quite funny to figure out if your orbit is too deep and your kerbal'll burn to death pr if they'll survive

I don't think it would need to be able to be toggled. As the devs will probably add heat shields to right?

Even with a heatshield, you're not sure you gonna make it ;)

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...Then came the Mun and the challenge of landing there, even without the benefit of landing legs when it first appeared. ...

Not to forget that we had to reach Mun without the help of preplanning our orbits via maneuver nodes :D

And I agree ... the hurdle of reentry-heat will be rather childplay considering the hurdles we had to overcome only 1 year ago, just to get to Mun :D

and I am definitely looking forward to rentry heat (hope it comes with 0.21 :) )

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Hey, if you request it to be toggleable because it's too hard and ruins your creativity, why not just press Alt+F12 to call out Debug Menu?

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I don't see the point of re-entry heating; if all it will require to survive re-entry is equipping an inflatable shield and spending a few orbits decreasing your speed more slowly then literally all re-entry heating will do is make the game more tedious and time-consuming. If it's not toggleable, or a mod doesn't remove it, then tbh I'll probably just end all my missions once I have a return trajectory.

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I think it is a good thing to disable heating in the debug console for developing add ons and what not. But any "true" gamer does not use that menu (except for the whakc a kerbal!)

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IMO the spaceplanes should also have shields, in this aspect we should wait until a more complete vehicle assembling system is released. Implementing diverse shapes of shield for spaceplanes is quiet a challenge, or we set some part as "with heat shield", and it could be toggle in SPH.

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I think it is a good thing to disable heating in the debug console for developing add ons and what not. But any "true" gamer does not use that menu (except for the whakc a kerbal!)

What on Earth is a 'true' gamer?

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I don't see the point of re-entry heating; if all it will require to survive re-entry is equipping an inflatable shield and spending a few orbits decreasing your speed more slowly then literally all re-entry heating will do is make the game more tedious and time-consuming. If it's not toggleable, or a mod doesn't remove it, then tbh I'll probably just end all my missions once I have a return trajectory.

Might be difficult if it is a mission to a planet with an atmosphere ... like Duna, Laythe or Eve :wink:

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I don't see the point of re-entry heating; if all it will require to survive re-entry is equipping an inflatable shield and spending a few orbits decreasing your speed more slowly then literally all re-entry heating will do is make the game more tedious and time-consuming. If it's not toggleable, or a mod doesn't remove it, then tbh I'll probably just end all my missions once I have a return trajectory.

I would imagine that capsules would have built-in heat shields, so the standard mission end wouldn't change much at all. But for something like landing a rover on a body with an atmosphere, you might have to add additional shielding underneath it and ensure that it stays oriented properly instead of just throwing it towards the ground willy-nilly. Although this would probably require slightly more advanced aerodynamics to model properly.

And I doubt you would need to make several passes to deorbit, but it would probably make things like a completely vertical descent from an interplanetary trajectory out of the question.

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Hey, you could always quicksave before deorbiting to see which trajectories are safe. Just like what a lot of people do now before aerocapture or landing.

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I think it is a good thing to disable heating in the debug console for developing add ons and what not. But any "true" gamer does not use that menu (except for the whakc a kerbal!)

What about part clipping? I find that to be a must for my rovers and tiny rockets...

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I don't see the point of re-entry heating; if all it will require to survive re-entry is equipping an inflatable shield and spending a few orbits decreasing your speed more slowly then literally all re-entry heating will do is make the game more tedious and time-consuming. If it's not toggleable, or a mod doesn't remove it, then tbh I'll probably just end all my missions once I have a return trajectory.

First of all, it's a bit more realistic. I know KSP is not a total simulation, but some re-entry heating is something natural and should be implemented. Secondly, you'll have to be a bit more regarding to you re-entry trajectory and don't do those stupid "lemme kill all ma lateral velocity b4 droppin right to the planet at 100 000m/s throught the atmosphere, imma be allright". I play with deadly re-entry and a mission is not significantly longer than when I played without it. You don't have to make 159 orbits around Kerbin when coming back from the Mun to re-enter safely, not even one in fact since, if you set it correctly, your first re-entry'll kill enough velocity to let you land safely on the ground. And last but not least, every part has a max temp set in its .cfg, knowing this, you can even make a re-entry without a heatshield if you have the right angle. So there's absolutly no point in not implementing it.

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Huh. These are good points. Landing(ish) on the Mun was quite a challenge. Doing it again was a bit easier.

I suppose I'll just have to live with it. However, toggling would still be a bit of a good thing, for the people who are simply unable to master it.

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Re-entry heat is needed as there isn't any kind of challenge when re-entering the atmosphere, it will make us think more and prevent a people from just dropping vertically into the atmosphere at 4km/s+ speeds. Plus a little bit of realism, as it would be odd in the completed game to have re-entry graphics but no effects.

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First of all, it's a bit more realistic. I know KSP is not a total simulation, but some re-entry heating is something natural and should be implemented.

Realism is never a good reason to add a gameplay mechanic.

Secondly, you'll have to be a bit more regarding to you re-entry trajectory and don't do those stupid "lemme kill all ma lateral velocity b4 droppin right to the planet at 100 000m/s throught the atmosphere, imma be allright".

Which, I think it's safe to say, nobody does.

I play with deadly re-entry and a mission is not significantly longer than when I played without it. You don't have to make 159 orbits around Kerbin when coming back from the Mun to re-enter safely, not even one in fact since, if you set it correctly, your first re-entry'll kill enough velocity to let you land safely on the ground.

Right, so what you're saying is that it adds no difficulty, and so is pointless.

And last but not least, every part has a max temp set in its .cfg, knowing this, you can even make a re-entry without a heatshield if you have the right angle. So there's absolutly no point in not implementing it.

And there's absolutely no point to implement it, as there's already a mod that does it nicely. I don't see why re-entry heat is any different to mechjeb: mechjeb arguably makes the game more realistic, like re-entry heating, and certainly many more people enjoy mechjeb than re-entry heating, and yet Squad have outright said they won't be adding mechjeb-esque features to the game. Why add deadly re-entry-esque features?

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Realism is never a good reason to add a gameplay mechanic.

Which, I think it's safe to say, nobody does.

Right, so what you're saying is that it adds no difficulty, and so is pointless.

And there's absolutely no point to implement it, as there's already a mod that does it nicely. I don't see why re-entry heat is any different to mechjeb: mechjeb arguably makes the game more realistic, like re-entry heating, and certainly many more people enjoy mechjeb than re-entry heating, and yet Squad have outright said they won't be adding mechjeb-esque features to the game. Why add deadly re-entry-esque features?

I didn't say it doesn't add difficulty. You're interpreting what I said to your convinience. I said you have to set your re-entry correctly wich takes a bit of training to understand the mechanics and that it doesn't increase the mission time as much as you described it. What is the point in a space program semi-simulator if one of the most important feature is ignored in the base game ?! Would you play Football Manager if you just had to launch the game without creating the tactics and just let your player play like they are some child in the kindergarten ? I don't thing so (and I don't care if you don't like football, it's just an example). The point about the re-entry without heatshield is just theorical, I've never seen anyone do this but I know it's possible by setting your re-entry correctly but it should need to be a pretty damn good player. As stated earlier, there's absolutly no challenge in the whole re-entry and you totally could end your flight once you have a re-entry trajectory because nothing will happen unless you do something stupid or you did something stupid in your rocket building. I hope you understand the difference between MJ-esque feature which are more like a gadget and re-entry heating which is something happening naturally and will add a bit more challenge in a part of the mission where there's none.

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