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[0.20.2] Mission Controller v0.10 (06/24/2013) [ALPHA]


nobody44
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Every time I try to install this it just doesn't work. I get a blank window with no missions.

Extracted into the KSP/GameData folder.

If your using .21 and trying to use the version on the front page.. It won't work.. You have to use my Unofficial Version posted above to work in .21. Nobody has not yet updated the official version.

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If your using .21 and trying to use the version on the front page.. It won't work.. You have to use my Unofficial Version posted above to work in .21. Nobody has not yet updated the official version.

Ah, that explains it.

I had seen it edited on the 24th so thought the links in the main post were updated.

Thanks!

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Ok so I will release this Unofficial edit for you guys..

<snip>

THANKS! This is a great mod and I really appreciate you posting your unofficial fix. Hopefully nobody will come back and continue working on it, or at least grant you license to pick up where he left off.

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So, while I love this mod, I had real trouble with the cost balancing. Trusses shouldn't cost 10x as much as probe cores, for instance. Further, heavier items that do the same thing should cost _less_ than lighter ones in many cases, for example five Z100s vs a single Z500. The energy density is higher so the cost should be too.

Finally, in the real world the payload makes up the majority of the cost of the mission. Satellite example: $100m for the payload, $40m for the LV.

So I went ahead and rewrote the cost function to (1) consider part category and (2) consider part modules, and in doing so tried to make particularly command, utility, and science items cost far more, and structural far less. For most parts (3) I consider mass-efficiency: Reactors (treated as big RTGs) will be per-unit-of-generated-electricity more expensive since they're more efficient than the stock RTG. Same goes for fuel tanks, solar panels, batteries, etc.

This means, most importantly, that mods that add overpowered components (compared to stock) will have those components cost way _more_, not way _less_ as it stands now.

I did keep some cost for mass (i.e. construction labor and structural parts) but that is under different multipliers for different kinds of parts.

I tweaked nobody's formula for engines so that gimbal and atmo Isp are taken into account and so that mass-efficiency plays a role: the more mass efficient an engine is for its performance, the more expensive it will be--so if a mod adds an LVT-45-alike that masses only 1 ton, it will be more expensive, not the same cost (MC's current engine formula) or _less_ expensive (MC's engine formula + MC's mass formula). Jets (and the Kethane turbine) are also now included, at at 1/20 price ratio. That works out, because high-performance jets are actually more expensive than rocket engines, IIRC.

Example costs:

Octo2: 2000

Small stack probe: 1200

Mk1 pod (with DRE ablative coating): 7000

Mk1-2 pod (with DRE heat shield): 29000

Science sensor: 250

Antenna: 150

Comm Dish: 750

RemoteTech SatDish 9000: 30,000 + 700 construction

LVT-45: 4000 + 100 in construction costs

SLS Bearcat (NovaPunch; 240 thrust, extra gimballing, similar Isp, still 1.5t): 5400 + 100 construction costs.

DSM Nuclear Reactor: 601,000 + 50,000 or so in construction costs

Structural parts: a few K here and there!

A couple example pictures (note that I've doubled costs for batteries and panels since then, so increase Utility by x2)--note that the total costs should be broadly comparable to where they are in stock MC.

EDIT: Pics fixed.

pWf21aw.jpg

i0mF2Rq.jpg

I _believe_ the license allows me to upload these changes compiled; I can certainly upload the code. (Unless, nobody, you'd rather I not, in which case I absolutely will not!)

Note that I'm still running .20, so malkuth, you'd have to merge the changes in to your .21-fixes branch for .21 compatibility. So...is anyone interested?

Edited by NathanKell
Fixed pics
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Here's the two source files that were changed and compiled DLLs for both 20 and 21 (the latter using malkuth's fix).

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59341658/MC10_NKcostedit.zip

Hmm Ill check it out.. I was working on Taking out the Difficulty part of the Mod and adding a Testing and Experiment stage to the mod.. IE when testing your craft for functionality with a small cost instead of Disabling the mod (You can still disable the mod If you want).. Adds a little more difficulty to the mod without the whole % based cost inflation of the old system.. (which makes mission making hard to plan for)

Anyway I was messing around with the cost Myself.. (I don't really like the way cost are done either) So it will be nice if your Edit makes it even better. Because even though I messed with the values still was not happy.

What I was trying to do was actually make the cost without Fuels actually Match Kerbal Engineer cost as close as possible. And the values were really weird I got it close but still... Anyway Ill check it out. :) thanks.

Edit I don't know about you.. But what do you think of the fuel cost.. This is one of my biggest pet peeves about the mod and is one thing I changed.. But I don't think the fuels should cost More then the vessel itself.. So I changed some of the values a little bit.. And with your edit I like it a lot more. For instance this is the Default Kerbal X cost with both our Edits.

c2DZ2QS.jpg

wbGiO6F.jpg

And This Is the Default Z Imagine Satellite Cost.. Notice the Solid Fuel Cost.. I have no idea why solid fuel is more expensive then Liquid.. So I changed it.. And all other fuel cost for Fuel is not more then the actual cost of the vessel.

Oh I like how you separated all the cost of the Different parts like that. :)

Edited by malkuth
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malkuth, throughout this thread the big issue is that the costs _shouldn't_ be anything like the built-in game's costs (which KER reports), because they have no relation to, well, anything. Like a Mainsail costing as much as an LV909 (or something), or mod parts leaving the default cost. That's why nobody44 developed the new balancing system based on mass, and then fuel and engine costs.

The reason for liquid fuel being so cheap is that, well, it is. It's just kerosine. What's expensive is oxidizer. The way the costs were set up, if you're building a rocket, you either pay for LF+OX, or you pay for solid. So solid should cost more than LF alone, but less than LF+OX. The reason to have LF so cheap is so that jets, which use LF alone, just pay for cheap gas.

But I agree with you that fuel should be (because it is, IRL) cheap. Or at least cheap compared to payload. Under the code I released, fuel should be something like <1/3 the cost of the rocket; payload should be 1/3 to 1/2 (best if >1/2 but that's hard to do), and engines, structure, etc, should be the rest.

What happened to the pod costs for the KerbalX? Did 0.21 change the way pods have modules? That Mk1-2 should be costing upwards of 30k!

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Yes they did well they added new modules to pods with the new reaction wheels which is a new module. Also they increased the electrics of all the pods since reaction wheels use electricity now. Ill take a look at how it effects your code tommorow. How come your still using .20? Oh and the example above the only thing I changed was the fuels didn't touch mass or anything else so the parts you edited should not be effected. Total fuel cost are still pretty high though but at least they are cheaper then the ship itself though.

Edited by malkuth
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I don't mean adding new modules, I mean changing either part category away from Pods (which I doubt) or changing ModuleCommand to be some other class. The recompile should have relinked all the class IDs. But yeah, I should just switch to .21. I haven't yet because there are still core mods I use that haven't been updated (Deadly Reentry), although I probably could recompile against 21, and because some seem still finicky (MJ, and its interaction bug with Kethane). I probably will in the next couple days.

So yeah, seems like they changed the classname or signature or something of the command module; in your editor, check and make sure the check for ModuleCommand is working right. Because the cost should be approx 2k for a probe, and 7k per kerbal in a capsule.

Oh, right--and I'm using FAR, of course, so my ratios will be a bit different. (As you can see from the pics, I need only about 3200 expended, or 3500 vacuum, deltaV to get to orbit with a reasonably aerodynamic rocket). So maybe reduce engine and fuel costs to 75% of what they are now if you want my proposed proportions to work in non-FAR environments.

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Looking it over I don't see anything wrong.. Not sure why its not showing up.. I loaded up another vessel that has the 3 man pod and the 2 man can and only showing up as 10,000.. Which is totally incorrect with what you have for equation.

Something has changed. And I added your files direct into the save.. And just added my fix again.. So.... Guess I will look some more. And they are still calssified as pods.. And ModuleCommand.

Edit.. I fixed it seems your edits are effected by messing around with the Cost in difficulties.. I set them back to normal and the prices went back up..

Edited by malkuth
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Ah, right. I'm using the multiplier for Xenon since it's 10 * difficulty, and there's no _actual_ difficulty modifier I could see, just precomputed ones. Otherwise my costs wouldn't be scaled by difficulty at all.

I didn't get around to rewriting difficulty.cs to abstract all my coefficients, which is what I should have done. I'll try to do that ASAP, and also add them as debugging options so people can change them on the fly.

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Edited I figured it out and implemented the things I wanted.. yay for me. :)

Oh and I still have not heard anything from Nobody.. I did ask him if he would mind me working on the mod while he is gone or too busy.. But nothing yet.. But if you want to work together on pushing this mod foward totally willing to go in with you.. I can tell you right now your a far better programmer then me at this point with what I have seen you do in just the few edits you done. You understand the math stuff better too. ;) Its up to you.. You can pm me if you wish for we don't flood this thread with all this talk.. :)

The New Settings window.

G6vksez.jpg

Edited by malkuth
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Alright starting to test .11 of this mod (if we can actually call it that since its still not Nobody's edits)

So far all features I wanted are in.. Including Nathankell edits.

.11 changes

No more difficulties Replaced with a Testing Mode.

There are now 3 modes to Mission Controller

Testing Mode (3% of cost of Vessel Not including Fuel... So dry cost, and missions don't work this mode adds just a little more challenge to Mission Controller.. Now testing those vessels will cost you money)

Note about testing mode.. Just like in human testing world you can use Test Pilots... test pilots can still die.. Insurance cost apply in this case.

Flight Mode (This mode is normal operations.. Missions Count and work) Also this mode is same as playing on Medium in the old way.. Only with the new values from Nathan.

Disable Plugin (Nothing Works.. Just like the old way

Used Nathans Edits of cost.. Only his. This is a really good edit. It separates the parts into categories and prices them separately.

Have not decided on the fuel issue and if we should cut those down or not.. (would require mission payouts to be adjusted)

Included with .11 will be my mission packs.. Already Delivered.

So the question is.. Should I release this or wait on Nobody? Been over a week and no response.

And If I do release it should It be in this thread or make a new one? What would that require? Rename of the mod? Anyone that understands GPL3 license and all can chime in.

Edited by malkuth
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Release please :D .. or PM me a link to it, and I'll do some testing in the mean time.

Oh its going to be released my friend.. Im trying to find out what I need to do to release it in my own thread though...

Thinking of renaming it Mission Controller Extended... Of course nobody still has his full rights over it if he comes back.. Just think it deserves its own thread... Which is the part im not sure about at this second... And squashing some last minute bugs.

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