[WIP v0.1] Wet Workshops - Live inside your fuel tanksâ„¢

[nyrath]

You probably already know this already, but there are some nifty diagrams of wet workshop space stations constructed out of Space Shuttle External Tanks here:

http://www.astronautix.com/craft/stsation.htm

[betaking]

You know, I wouldn't mind a mod or a branch off this, except with some kind of fairing or interstage covering the tank.. under which we see bits of the tanks inner pressure vessels and components.. there are 2 main reasons to do it this way.

The first reason is that it would allow for things like solar pannels, or satalite dishes to be placed inside the craft and not stick out on the outside like a sore thumb.

The second reason is that it would allow for a better grasp on Why exactly a wet workshop hasn't actually been executed despite being touched upon by numorous studies.

picture having to do EVA's, using KAS to attach components to the side of the tank, having to fly over to the cryogenic components, and adjust them. ect.

PS: sorry if I just accidentally necro'd this thread.

[CatastrophicFailure]

How did I not see this sooner?? Just the thing for aesthetically pleasing single launch interplanetary missions!

[CatastrophicFailure]

Here's a better picture of the problem.. (though not a really good one)...

there is a refit module attached via docking port to the fuel tank.

yet I cannot select "find refit module", nor refit the tank.

I ran into this same issue. In my case, I launched the setup crewless, did what could be done without crew (dump fuel, find refit module, etc), then came back later with a crewed ship to finish it and ran into this. Tried tweaking the quicksave file to force the refit option to come up, and it can't seem to find the refit module (maybe 'cause it already did?).

[Helix935]

i think the main problem for this mod is the conversion rate because it took 48 days for the full conversion of one module for me

[DerekL1963]

i think the main problem for this mod is the conversion rate because it took 48 days for the full conversion of one module for me

That's one the reasons one has never been tried in real life... In the end, the work required to convert a tank into a bare bones useable volume takes a long time and is fairly expensive.

[Helix935]

just so that i can keep this going....

how packing the refit module with more kerbals to increase conversion time or use multiple refit module to convert them faster

[AseaHeru]

I like this, and not just for the fact that it was done IRL, with SkyLab.

Or was it something else? Something starting with sky, american and a station...

[TimothyC]

I like this, and not just for the fact that it was done IRL, with SkyLab.

Or was it something else? Something starting with sky, american and a station...

Skylab was a dry workshop. They took the S-IVB stage and refitted it on the ground, and from there they put it into orbit on an S-1C/S-II stack.

[ThadeusKilgore]

I love this mod but for some reason, after emptying the fuel and putting a kerbal into the refit module; I waited 1 day and still did not have the option to convert the tank. Not sure if one of my other mods is interfering with this or what. (I tried on three seperate occastions)

[Moon Goddess]

I love this mod but for some reason, after emptying the fuel and putting a kerbal into the refit module; I waited 1 day and still did not have the option to convert the tank. Not sure if one of my other mods is interfering with this or what. (I tried on three separate occasions)

I've noticed that is has some issues with docking or switching to another ship, The only way I've made it work is to do all my docking before I put my kerbal in the refit module and stay on that ship until the conversion is complete. Otherwise it simply never gives me the convert option. If I've started the conversion and changed something then it's impossible to complete.

[Helix935]

some one please continue this fabulous mod because this is a great idea that should not go to waste

[thunderstar]

looks nice! ill try it it seems very interesting, also it makes me remember skylab

[Durabys]

Nova? I think this mod could be awesome for those that want to have that "1970's" feel of space travel.

[Der Kosmos]

That's one the reasons one has never been tried in real life... In the end, the work required to convert a tank into a bare bones useable volume takes a long time and is fairly expensive.

But why? In theory it should just consist of filling the rigid structure of the tank with two inflatable bladders. One is filled with fuel, and the other is collapsed. As the fuel is drained from the bladder it will collapse, and the second bladder can be filled with air and lived in.

[DerekL1963]

But why? In theory it should just consist of filling the rigid structure of the tank with two inflatable bladders. One is filled with fuel, and the other is collapsed. As the fuel is drained from the bladder it will collapse, and the second bladder can be filled with air and lived in.

A big empty room (bladder) is as useless on orbit as it is dirtside - it's all the stuff in the room that makes it useful.

Your theory leaves out all the mass that must be boosted into orbit and transferred into your second bladder in order to live in it. It also leaves out all the work involved in taking that mass and putting it to use. (I.E. running cables and ventilation ducts, attaching lights and hardware racks, etc...) And that's not even addressing all the practical engineering problems involved with the bladders.

The devil is in the details as it so often is - and those details take far too many man hours and too much support to put into place to make the conversion economical.

[Wahgineer]

Couldn't you just remove the collapsible bladders?

[Moon Goddess]

Couldn't you just remove the collapsible bladders?

And then what? it's still a lot of work to turn it into a habitat? regardless of the bladders.

Still despite how well this works in reality I like it for KSP

If anyone updates it could you please please make a 3.75m version. I wanna to the Apollo Venus

[Der Kosmos]

You are still underestimating how much of the habitat is just an hollow shell filled with air. Empty fuel tanks are dead weight that cannot be re-used, and there is considerable mass to be saved by re-using them. Sure you still have to send up all the equipment in the habitat, but by re-using the fuel tank, you save having to send up the habitat's structure, which might weigh as much as the equipment it stores depending on various factors.

[Durabys]

So. One of us could talk to Nova and ask him to release the coding of this mod so one of our more programming/texture orientated friends could finish this.

[Wahgineer]

A big empty room (bladder) is as useless on orbit as it is dirtside - it's all the stuff in the room that makes it useful.

Your theory leaves out all the mass that must be boosted into orbit and transferred into your second bladder in order to live in it. It also leaves out all the work involved in taking that mass and putting it to use. (I.E. running cables and ventilation ducts, attaching lights and hardware racks, etc...) And that's not even addressing all the practical engineering problems involved with the bladders.

The devil is in the details as it so often is - and those details take far too many man hours and too much support to put into place to make the conversion economical.

The point of making a wet workshop was to save time, money, and materials. If you wanted to make a tank into a wet workshop, you might install the ducts (which don't have to be that big) and electric cables on the ground, then install everything else (which could be made modular to reduce complexity) in orbit. This would allow the 'station module' to boost itself into the proper orbit, then be converted on site.

[DerekL1963]

You are still underestimating how much of the habitat is just an hollow shell filled with air.

An empty shell filled with air, insulation, cabling, structure, equipment, storage, etc... etc... How much of your house is just an inert empty shell filled with air?

Empty fuel tanks are dead weight that cannot be re-used, and there is considerable mass to be saved by re-using them. Sure you still have to send up all the equipment in the habitat, but by re-using the fuel tank, you save having to send up the habitat's structure, which might weigh as much as the equipment it stores depending on various factors.

That's the theory anyways. In reality, it simply doesn't work that way. Why? Because your theory completely fails to account for the costs of all the weight that needs to be sent up to be installed, and for the costs of all the man-hours, mass, and support needed while converting the empty shell into something useful. Time and mass on-orbit is expensive, very expensive, and will remain so for the foreseeable future. Conversions of this nature tend to increase the time and mass required anywhere from three to five times that of simply launching the module directly.

The point of making a wet workshop was to save time, money, and materials. If you wanted to make a tank into a wet workshop, you might install the ducts (which don't have to be that big) and electric cables on the ground, then install everything else (which could be made modular to reduce complexity) in orbit. This would allow the 'station module' to boost itself into the proper orbit, then be converted on site.

As with Der Kosmos above... your theory fails to take into account anything even remotely resembling engineering reality. Anything installed in the tank before hand needs to be able to survive whatever the tank is filled with (cryogenics, kerosene, or worse yet some of the hypergolics). They need to be engineered so that none of it comes loose and interferes with the flow of the contents of the tank (and since it's immersed in liquid, the loads are higher than if it were simply in air). They need to be designed so that they don't trap (and subsequently outgas) any of the tanks contents (a serious problem with H2, kerosene, or worse yet some of the hypergolics, a potential fire hazard in the case of LOX). They need to not interfere with any of the slosh modes inside the tank in such a way as to cause destructive vibrations... etc... etc...

[betaking]

you can keep cryogenic propellents from pooling/collecting someplace by simply filling the chamber with warmer air, and/or modifying the temperature control systems for life support... I think, though there are probably other problems associated with that, ones that I can't think of.

I think that the major problem with a "wet workshop", at least as far as NASA is concerned, isn't so much with the technological challenges, but the internal/external/political forces.

[Der Kosmos]

An empty shell filled with air, insulation, cabling, structure, equipment, storage, etc... etc... How much of your house is just an inert empty shell filled with air?

The heaviest parts. Also the insulation cabling, and structure are included here. It's the just the furniture and appliances that need to be transported up separately. They do not weigh nearly as much as the actual structure of the house.

[Helix935]

is it just me or has this mod attracted a cult following even though it is unfinished