m4v

[1.2] RCS Build Aid v0.9.1

Recommended Posts

Been using this plugin for a while now, and I must say it is amazing! Docking ships together has never been easier, and since I also use TAC Fuel Balancer I can keep the fuel balanced which keeps the CoM from moving around in flight, this is awesome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would it be possible for the plugin to use the keyboard settings from KSP? I type with the Dvorak layout, not Qwerty, so I've remapped my control keys to use the same physical keys, though they now type different letters. My HNIKJL keys on the keyboard now type as DBCTHN respectively.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Would it be possible for the plugin to use the keyboard settings from KSP? I type with the Dvorak layout, not Qwerty, so I've remapped my control keys to use the same physical keys, though they now type different letters. My HNIKJL keys on the keyboard now type as DBCTHN respectively.
I will see if it can be done. I'm not happy with the current user interface though, so I might redo it at some point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Amazing addon, Sad it fell under. In the pictures it kind of looks like crayon, lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

bump 0.3.2 update.

There's nothing noteworthy in it, it fixes the problem AbuMaia had and has support for display forces of main engines (only for engines in the lowest stage) but I want to downplay the usefulness of this feature a lot. I have been using it and is not really practical for balancing VTOLs or asymmetrical rockets, torque forces are really sensitive to CoM movement and if you have wings then they are not accurate at all. I might need to rethink how to deal with engines or just remove it, you're better off using other plugin that keeps the vessel balanced while in flight.

Besides that, there isn't a reason to update. The RCS balancing aspect of this plugin didn't change.

Edited by m4v

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Somethings wonky with the key bindings in 3.2.22222. The IK and HN are swapped on mine. To solve AbuMaia's issue, couldn't you read the key mappings from file? Maybe load them from an array?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The IK and HN are swapped on mine.
The keys should match the translation direction, not the thrust of the RCSs. So the translation you see in VAB is the same than in flight.
To solve AbuMaia's issue, couldn't you read the key mappings from file? Maybe load them from an array?

Shouldn't be needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The keys should match the translation direction, not the thrust of the RCSs. So the translation you see in VAB is the same than in flight.

I know how it works brother, I'm telling you the keys are wonky on 3.2.22222. H should be forward and N should be back. The N and K are swapped and the H and I are swapped. I verified this by re-installing 3.1.21228. I'm Windows 7 PCs and have tested this on two machines. Personally, I don't care 3.1.21228 works fine for me. Just thought you'd like to know...

H and N keys on 3.2.22222:

ChK7Kdy.jpg

5XGLHXI.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This has probably been suggested before... but would it be possible to get some extended arrows on the axes of the dry weight indicator? When you get the two close together, the dry weight indicator disappears inside the loaded weight indicator and you're left guessing exactly where it is...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This mod conflicts with KerbComAvionics, sadly. the Dry CoM marker still shows up, but the RCS translation guides do not, and when pressing a RCS directional key this mod believes there are no RCS units on the vessel.

I'm not familiar enough with KerbComAvionics to tell you why exactly that's happening (perhaps its substituting some custom propulsion type for the rcs units, I don't know).

Edited by hawkwing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you think you could create a version that deals with thrust? It would be very helpful for vtols. I know you can line up the CoT with the CoM, but I'd like to see rotation, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Do you think you could create a version that deals with thrust? It would be very helpful for vtols. I know you can line up the CoT with the CoM, but I'd like to see rotation, too.

The current version already includes this feature. :D Just activate the CoM indicator then press the 'P' key, it will display thrust vectors of all engines on your ship, and how they affect rotation. Hit 'P' again to turn off, and of course your RCS translation controls will still work. Hope this helps. :)

Btw, since this feature has been added, I've found balancing my VTOLs to be MUCH easier! :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The current version already includes this feature. Just activate the CoM indicator then press the 'P' key, it will display thrust vectors of all engines on your ship, and how they affect rotation. Hit 'P' again to turn off, and of course your RCS translation controls will still work. Hope this helps.

Btw, since this feature has been added, I've found balancing my VTOLs to be MUCH easier!

Oh my god, thanks! But can you toggle engines on and off in the display? Or will I just have to add counter weights for where my other engines should be?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm not familiar enough with KerbComAvionics to tell you why exactly that's happening (perhaps its substituting some custom propulsion type for the rcs units, I don't know).

That is exactly what it is doing, it's dynamically replacing ModuleRCS with it's own RCS implementation and confusing everyone else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This mod conflicts with KerbComAvionics, sadly. the Dry CoM marker still shows up, but the RCS translation guides do not, and when pressing a RCS directional key this mod believes there are no RCS units on the vessel.

I'm not familiar enough with KerbComAvionics to tell you why exactly that's happening (perhaps its substituting some custom propulsion type for the rcs units, I don't know).

That is exactly what it is doing, it's dynamically replacing ModuleRCS with it's own RCS implementation and confusing everyone else.

I had the impression that KCA replaces ModuleRCS when the flight starts, so while you're in VAB/SPH there should be no problem. Maybe I was wrong.

@hawkwing

Just to be sure, you didn't replace "ModuleRCS" by "MyRCSModule" in the .cfg files of the RCS?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Do you think you could create a version that deals with thrust? It would be very helpful for vtols. I know you can line up the CoT with the CoM, but I'd like to see rotation, too.
Oh my god, thanks! But can you toggle engines on and off in the display? Or will I just have to add counter weights for where my other engines should be?

Well, that's what I thought I would have to do too, but you really don't. :) First, in answer to you question, no, you can't have the Build Aid 'ignore' certain engines, at least I haven't discovered how to. - Aside to the dev, that'd be a helpful feature, no? :) - But here's what I do: When designing my VTOL craft, I decide ahead of time roughly where I want the center of mass to be, usually somewhere centered on the length of the ship. I get the structure the way I like it, and then place ALL the engines where I want them to be, keeping in mind that any vertical engines need to be approximately the same distance from the CoM, of course. At this point the actual CoM is probably way off, usually way to far to the rear. So I start trimming the craft by adding weight where necessary, usually in the form of rtgs or fuel or monoprop or whatever. Counterweights, whatever you need to get the CoM back to roughly where you want it. Now you'll press 'P' with the CoM indicator on and you'll have a big red circle arrow. :) At this point you should have pretty much everything on the ship you want, landing gear, ladders, antennae and other assorted greebles, but NO RCS thrusters yet. YET. Now, start adjusting your counterweight(s) and/or engines up & down or back & forth as necessary until you get the red circle-arrow to disappear. Yes, it will show that your overall thrust vector is angled way forward and up, and yes, that's the direction you'd go if you had all your engines on at once, but even if you only have one set (either VTOL or forward thrust) active it won't matter, because your center of thrust will still be aligned with your center of mass, get it? It took me a while to trust this, but it really does work. :) Oh, and if you're using rotating VTOL engines like the B9 ones, or the new MSI Rotatrons, you can use the same technique, you'll just have to manually rotate the engines in the editor, just make sure that you've got no red circle in BOTH orientations.

Finally, once your engines are balanced, add your RCS thrusters last, and balance those as usual. Their weight will probably alter the thrust vector slightly, I usually have to go back and forth a few times to get everything balanced out. The system isn't entirely perfect, I guess because there's still room inside the yellow CoM marker to have a very slight imbalance, but this plugin sure helps you get a lot closer a lot faster than without it. :)

Phew, sorry for the long-winded post. Again, I hope this helps. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, that's what I thought I would have to do too, but you really don't. :) First, in answer to you question, no, you can't have the Build Aid 'ignore' certain engines, at least I haven't discovered how to. - Aside to the dev, that'd be a helpful feature, no? :)

For now you do that by playing with the engine staging, the plugin only uses the first stage that has engines, so for "disable" an engine you just move it to a higher stage.

But here's what I do: When designing my VTOL craft, I decide ahead of time roughly where I want the center of mass to be, usually somewhere centered on the length of the ship. I get the structure the way I like it, and then place ALL the engines where I want them to be, keeping in mind that any vertical engines need to be approximately the same distance from the CoM, of course. At this point the actual CoM is probably way off, usually way to far to the rear. So I start trimming the craft by adding weight where necessary, usually in the form of rtgs or fuel or monoprop or whatever. Counterweights, whatever you need to get the CoM back to roughly where you want it. Now you'll press 'P' with the CoM indicator on and you'll have a big red circle arrow. :) At this point you should have pretty much everything on the ship you want, landing gear, ladders, antennae and other assorted greebles, but NO RCS thrusters yet. YET. Now, start adjusting your counterweight(s) and/or engines up & down or back & forth as necessary until you get the red circle-arrow to disappear. Yes, it will show that your overall thrust vector is angled way forward and up, and yes, that's the direction you'd go if you had all your engines on at once, but even if you only have one set (either VTOL or forward thrust) active it won't matter, because your center of thrust will still be aligned with your center of mass, get it? It took me a while to trust this, but it really does work. :) Oh, and if you're using rotating VTOL engines like the B9 ones, or the new MSI Rotatrons, you can use the same technique, you'll just have to manually rotate the engines in the editor, just make sure that you've got no red circle in BOTH orientations.

Finally, once your engines are balanced, add your RCS thrusters last, and balance those as usual. Their weight will probably alter the thrust vector slightly, I usually have to go back and forth a few times to get everything balanced out. The system isn't entirely perfect, I guess because there's still room inside the yellow CoM marker to have a very slight imbalance, but this plugin sure helps you get a lot closer a lot faster than without it. :)

Phew, sorry for the long-winded post. Again, I hope this helps. :D

With the few experiments I did I have found the feature to be too underwhelming, not having a way to tweak the dry CoM is a problem, and parts that have mass in the editor but have none in flight don't help either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Do you think you could create a version that deals with thrust? It would be very helpful for vtols. I know you can line up the CoT with the CoM, but I'd like to see rotation, too.
For now you do that by playing with the engine staging, the plugin only uses the first stage that has engines, so for "disable" an engine you just move it to a higher stage.

AH HAH! Thank you, I didn't know that about the staging thing! When I build a VTOL, I leave all the engines in one stage and activate/deactivate them with action groups, so I never discovered that feature. Excellent! :D

With the few experiments I did I have found the feature to be too underwhelming, not having a way to tweak the dry CoM is a problem, and parts that have mass in the editor but have none in flight don't help either.

Yes, I can see that that would be a problem. I play 'Sci-Fi' style, if you will, infinite fuel and such, so I don't really even put fuel tanks on my ships anymore, or if I do it's strictly for structural or cosmetic purposes, and it's either empty (via edited configs) or I don't care how much it weighs, and anyway my ship won't change weight or CoM during flight. So I just ignore the dry CoM indicator if I get it. :)

And as I said before, this system isn't totally perfect for me, and I can see where it would be even less so for others, I was just trying to give some tips to Acealeam regarding the thrust vector indicator.

Hmmm... now that you mention it, your comment about parts that have no mass in flight clears up some things for me. Sometimes I set up my thrust vectors as balanced in the SPH, and then when I try to VTO the ship nosedives or pitches up uncontrollably anyway... well, like I said, that 'splains that. :)

Thanks, m4v, you've once again proved the adage that we all do indeed learn something new every day, lol!

Happy rocketry everyone, Neutrinovore out. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm... now that you mention it, your comment about parts that have no mass in flight clears up some things for me. Sometimes I set up my thrust vectors as balanced in the SPH, and then when I try to VTO the ship nosedives or pitches up uncontrollably anyway... well, like I said, that 'splains that. :)

The greatest offender I can think are landing gears, they have 0.5 t of mass, and in flight they are not accounted for physics calculations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FYI This mod is great for VTOL balancing too, Just place a RCS block on all the engines used to VTOL press the key that makes you transition up, (blue arrows are pointing to the ground) and instead of moving the blocks move the engines!

The only way to VTOL!

Edited by Tidus Klein

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Can confirm this mod isn't compatible with Kerbcom =/

Can't do much about it since Kerbcom replaces stock RCS modules when the game is loaded. Maybe you can poke ZRM about this? if Kerbcom replaced them only when the flight starts then there would be no conflict, I had the impression his plugin already did that so maybe is a bug in Kerbcom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.