m4v

[1.2] RCS Build Aid v0.9.1

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Thanks for making this plugin! I actually used it in the reverse mode - placing the RCS ports symmetrically and then balancing the craft around it - to create my VTOL, the Dragonshy. It worked like a charm!

Oh, and uh, the thing about folks obsessively tweaking until the arrows go away? Guilty... :D

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BUKS30t.jpg

So again, huge thanks for creating this! This build would have been a nightmare without it.

Edited by drewscriver
added images

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One minor bug that I've noticed.

Once you load up the VAB or SPH, I get around 35 fps.

But once I've clicked the Center of Mass-button once, the frame rate goes up to 60 and stays there even if I turn off CoM again.

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@drewscriver, nice!

One minor bug that I've noticed.

Once you load up the VAB or SPH, I get around 35 fps.

But once I've clicked the Center of Mass-button once, the frame rate goes up to 60 and stays there even if I turn off CoM again.

yes, that's an issue that I haven't deal with yet, I didn't think it could get that bad. The plugin searches in every frame for the CoM object until is found, since there isn't (or I don't know) any convenient reference for it. I'll likely have to do something for reduce the overhead.

Edited by m4v

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Btw, something I've noticed... and this doesn't affect the usability or utility of this mod, it's just a quirk... Anyway, when I hit the 'translate forward' key, the thrust vectors indicate the FORWARD FACING thrusters firing, obviously causing the green movement vector arrows to indicate rearward movement. Same thing the other way - 'translate rearward' = rear facing thrusters firing = forward movement. This only seems to be with the forward/rearward axis, though. Up/down and left/right indicate properly. To be clear, this is just with the graphics in the SPH or VAB, when in flight the thrusters behave as they should. No reason they shouldn't, this plugin has nothing to do with actual part function. I just find it odd that that one axis is inverted, that's all. :)

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Somethings wonky with the key bindings in 3.2.22222. The IK and HN are swapped on mine. To solve AbuMaia's issue, couldn't you read the key mappings from file? Maybe load them from an array?

They are also set in the SPH config when I am in the VAB for me. I have to use j/l and h/n for translation and i/k for forward/backward (IIRC)

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So I've been using this to tweak the stock B9 crafts - though I'd have to rebuild some of them to dial some stuff out - and I'm wondering how I ever did without this D:

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This is quite simply one of the best mods for KSP ever. It is absolutely essential for creating balanced rockets and VTOLS!

Thank you creating this awesome plugin.

Now a feature request. I would find it extremely useful If I could toggle engines on and off when in engine mode so I can balance both vertical and horizontal engines.

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Now a feature request. I would find it extremely useful If I could toggle engines on and off when in engine mode so I can balance both vertical and horizontal engines.

Is not documented, only the engines of the bottommost stage are used, so you can "turn them off" by moving them into a higher stage.

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Here's a situation I've run into recently that I haven't seen addressed. :)

So, I'm building a large interplanetary ship, with a very large cargo bay (LLL parts). I also want to use it to ferry space station components to orbit, etc. LLL now has a neat little 'salvage pod' with built in RCS thrusters, and I want to carry 2 of them INSIDE the cargo bay. Here's the problem: When I've got the whole ship built, engines, RCS, cargo and pods in the bay, all ready to go, I can't balance the RCS system at all because, even though I have the pods and cargo (also with ITS own RCS thrusters) set up in separate stages as with the engine balancing, ALL of the RCS thrust vectors on ALL components are shown, regardless of what stage they're in. RCS thrusters can be disabled in flight mode, either individually or via action groups, of course, but there's no provision for that in the editors, as far as I can tell. Nor is there with your (otherwise fantastic) plugin, AFAIK. :P

Any thoughts? Or is this function already built in and I just haven't figured it out yet?

Thanks for your great work, and I hope this issue can be resolved too. :)

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Perhaps you could make versions of them without the thrusters, and with other components of comparable mass as "dummies" to balance the cargo ship - then remove them and put the real ones in.

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Here's a situation I've run into recently that I haven't seen addressed. :)

So, I'm building a large interplanetary ship, with a very large cargo bay (LLL parts). I also want to use it to ferry space station components to orbit, etc. LLL now has a neat little 'salvage pod' with built in RCS thrusters, and I want to carry 2 of them INSIDE the cargo bay. Here's the problem: When I've got the whole ship built, engines, RCS, cargo and pods in the bay, all ready to go, I can't balance the RCS system at all because, even though I have the pods and cargo (also with ITS own RCS thrusters) set up in separate stages as with the engine balancing, ALL of the RCS thrust vectors on ALL components are shown, regardless of what stage they're in. RCS thrusters can be disabled in flight mode, either individually or via action groups, of course, but there's no provision for that in the editors, as far as I can tell. Nor is there with your (otherwise fantastic) plugin, AFAIK. :P

Any thoughts? Or is this function already built in and I just haven't figured it out yet?

Thanks for your great work, and I hope this issue can be resolved too. :)

I can only suggest removing the RCS, and adding them back after balancing. Since the ship is large, the mass of the RCS shouldn't change things. Currently I don't plan in enabling/disabling RCS individually since I'm not sure how to implement it.

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Update


Version 0.4
-----------

* GUI added.
* Show magnitudes of torque, translation and other information.
* Some resource options for DCoM marker.
* Option for hide CoM/DCoM markers.
* Removed M and P keybinds.
* FIX: translation keybindings should match the correct direction in VAB.
(they won't match in SPH)
* FIX: the plugin could cause important fps drops while in VAB/SPH.

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Thanks a lot m4v! This is the only mod I use in every installation of KSP, even the strictly vanilla ones. I am loking forward to test the new version.

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Hey m4v, if I write a derived ModuleRCS class (to support bipropellant usage) would you be willing to add support for it in RCS Build Aid? I'm not sure how you're currently finding RCS modules--you might not even have to change anything, since mine would be derived from it. But if not, you could just check for both, and cast mine to a ModuleRCS.

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Hey m4v, if I write a derived ModuleRCS class (to support bipropellant usage) would you be willing to add support for it in RCS Build Aid? I'm not sure how you're currently finding RCS modules--you might not even have to change anything, since mine would be derived from it. But if not, you could just check for both, and cast mine to a ModuleRCS.

If your module is cast-able to ModuleRCS then I think there shouldn't be a problem.

edit: Although there isn't much you can override in ModuleRCS so I don't think you can subclass it for your purposes.

Edited by m4v

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After looking at the problem more, yeah, I'm thinking this isn't something I want to deal with right now. Shoot.

Well, when ZRM gets back, guess I can ask about the custom version of RCS used for KerbCom, and whether multiple-fuel support could be added to that; and/or if I do get some time I can look into this again. I'll keep you posted.

Bah, squad, you had a perfectly nice system for engines, why not just use that....

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So I'm getting an error saying no RCS thrusters in place. This happens on every ship.

PJQLcHAl.jpg

Whoops, nevermind. Just read the readme. I have kerbcom avionics installed.

Edited by frozenbacon

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Does this work for balancing engine thrust? If so how would one do that? No wings, landing gear? Just the cockpit, body, fuel tanks and your engines?

Getting real tired of my spaceplane spinning into pieces on take off roll, suddenly jerking to one side and off the runway, Or tipping and dragging itself to death on the runway.

Many thanks in advanced.

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Does this work for balancing engine thrust? If so how would one do that? No wings, landing gear? Just the cockpit, body, fuel tanks and your engines?

Getting real tired of my spaceplane spinning into pieces on take off roll, suddenly jerking to one side and off the runway, Or tipping and dragging itself to death on the runway.

Many thanks in advanced.

I can't say that the engine balancing feature is useful for spaceplanes since usually they're asymmetrical, getting it balanced with zero torque might not be feasible (it might not be useful even) but at least it will tell you if the engines are pushing your nose down or up.

And about your plane going to left/right during take off, that's not an engine placement issue, but some sort of an "asymmetrical symmetry" bug in the game. Try placing the landing gear without snapping, it usually works for me.

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Does this work for balancing engine thrust? If so how would one do that? No wings, landing gear? Just the cockpit, body, fuel tanks and your engines?

Getting real tired of my spaceplane spinning into pieces on take off roll, suddenly jerking to one side and off the runway, Or tipping and dragging itself to death on the runway.

Many thanks in advanced.

I think your problem isn't with thrust but wheel placement/wheel load take a look at this page

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52080-Basic-Aircraft-Design-Explained-Simply-With-Pictures

a little more than half way down it talks about wheel placement I found it very useful and hardly every have a spaceplane yaw off the runway anymore. =D

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I can't say that the engine balancing feature is useful for spaceplanes since usually they're asymmetrical, getting it balanced with zero torque might not be feasible (it might not be useful even) but at least it will tell you if the engines are pushing your nose down or up.

And about your plane going to left/right during take off, that's not an engine placement issue, but some sort of an "asymmetrical symmetry" bug in the game. Try placing the landing gear without snapping, it usually works for me.

Not 100% sure what you mean by the snapping part, But i don't think the landing gear is snapping off the plane. Maybe the wheel getting stuck in the runway bug i have heard about but not sure that is what is happening.

I think your problem isn't with thrust but wheel placement/wheel load take a look at this page

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52080-Basic-Aircraft-Design-Explained-Simply-With-Pictures

a little more than half way down it talks about wheel placement I found it very useful and hardly every have a spaceplane yaw off the runway anymore. =D

Ah thanks, good read that link is sad i never found it myself. Thank you for it, I'll have to look and see if i have wheel wobble on the troublesome models. And i've spotted troubles like what is explained in that before with wheels burrowing making the plane wobble tipping side to side after having to correct a plane moving toward the edge of the runway.

thanks again guys I'll see what is going on, also the red arrow is the direction of the torque movement right. Not 100% clear as that as i have read this a few times and confused some still. Unless I missed the explanation of the colors of each arrow and what the represent. Unless that is hidden away in a readme file i have overlooked or in a post here that i did not read close enough. I guess what i am saying it I am shoeles. . . clueless as to what the different arrows mean, red, green, and the red circle arrow. Some i can understand but maybe my old brain just can't wrap itself around this . . . Sometimes being a "have to do it, to learn it" can be a disadvantage most of the time.

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Not 100% sure what you mean by the snapping part, But i don't think the landing gear is snapping off the plane. Maybe the wheel getting stuck in the runway bug i have heard about but not sure that is what is happening.

Angle snapping, what you enable in the editor with the C key.

thanks again guys I'll see what is going on, also the red arrow is the direction of the torque movement right. Not 100% clear as that as i have read this a few times and confused some still. Unless I missed the explanation of the colors of each arrow and what the represent. Unless that is hidden away in a readme file i have overlooked or in a post here that i did not read close enough. I guess what i am saying it I am shoeles. . . clueless as to what the different arrows mean, red, green, and the red circle arrow. Some i can understand but maybe my old brain just can't wrap itself around this . . . Sometimes being a "have to do it, to learn it" can be a disadvantage most of the time.

Green arrow is translation force. The straight red arrow is the torque force and has a circular arrow (which is also red) around it telling you the direction of rotation, so you don't have to use the right-hand rule every time you want to know how is rotating. The torque force is always parallel to the axis of rotation. Edited by m4v

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Angle snapping, what you enable in the editor with the C key.

Green arrow is translation force. The straight red arrow is the torque force and has a circular arrow (which is also red) around it telling you the direction of rotation, so you don't have to use the right-hand rule every time you want to know how is rotating. The torque force is always parallel to the axis of rotation.

Ah ok green is good, its the direction of movement, Straight arrow is bad if long, and the red arrow that is in a circle is torque, so if its only the engines and I have a long red arrow moving to the right or left, and a large red circle that is bad right? And Unless your trying to rotate a larger red arrow circle is bad or a larger one is good? and for moving the craft up down left, right a larger red circle arrow is bad?

Sorry for the questions but i just want to understand more aboot this so i can make better handling craft. Since i have challenge myself to make small "shuttle-craft" like SSTO space planes.

Thanks again!

Edited by Damaske

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Whenever if "big red arrow is bad" or not depends of your craft, I have planes with big torque values yet they fly alright because the lifting force of the wings counters it. But it will be a problem if you plan in going to space I guess.

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Yes, it will as i plan to have them travel out to 100km to 200km and then return under power. Might need refuel in space, but that's another issue.

So let me see if i got this straightened out. A large red torque value is good only in rotating you ship in space, you don't want the green arrow here, or smallest possible. If in Kerbal air-space its ok only as long as your wings counter the force. If your docking you want the smallest torque possible so that your not drifting all over the place.

And once in space you might want to place RCS to counter torque from thrust. Is there a way to show both thrust and RCS at the same time so that one can adjust. Or would that throw off the RCS mode with no engine thrust?

Not sure if i said this but thanks for this Mod! It is something that was MISSING in the game that I feel is needed. Also thanks to the hints and this mod, i have tamed a ship that i named "crash-o-matic" because no matter what i tried it would crash on take off, Or if it made it into the air it would fly till i go to adjust the plane and spin wildly out of control. It has now been taught how to behave and flies very very good. The Snap option for the landing gear was mostly at fault. As with few out of place RCS thrusters as i used them on takeoff to help get a nose up profile. I've also started placing my Wings high up on the body sometimes the center of lift is above the center of mass, yet just behind or dead even with center of mass with fuel. Since i have a fuel balance mod i feel that is the best place to adjust too. But as it gets lighter it tends to drop backwards, so i might change it to dry mass instead.

If i am missing anything here any hints that i've not found out, let me know i will say i this much "When it comes to spaceplanes i am a noob!" But i wish to learn quickly and replace that noob status with something better.

Thanks again for the help m4v, power5000, and anyone else i may have missed,

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