PrivateFlip

[1.6] Davon Throttle Control systems mod [v088]

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First of all thank you for the feedback, it's always nice to know someone is using your work.

The effect you mention is a known issue/feature. It could change it back to the normal behavior, but this made the center thrust mode more acute. However from the feedback I've gotten from people actually using this mod nobody appears to be using this mode, which is interesting because it was the reason to make the mod in the first place, so I might change it to approach the normal behavior in future updates.

I think that's because the people who would use the thrust balancer portion go for this mod instead. That being said, the ability to do fine-tuning of specific engines is the thing that is unique about this mod.

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I think that's because the people who would use the thrust balancer portion go for this mod instead. That being said, the ability to do fine-tuning of specific engines is the thing that is unique about this mod.

Yes, I'm familiar with the mod and I assumed the same. Already tested Kerbcom Avionics myself and, after ZRM added gimbal support, the behaviour is quite astounding. Unfortunately the stock engines don't have a big gimbal range so it fell a little short of what i had expected it to be. That said, it's still far more useful than my solution. It's always hard to kill your darlings.

Update: Modified the mod so the engines follow the natural spool up time for engines on which it applies. Timed it with a stopwatch and acceleration and deceleration times are 'identical'.

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Update:

-Made mod compatible with KSP .22

Decided to add the part to the "Specialized Control" tech tree node for now. Testing showed the the plugin was still functional. Not much more to add. I am planning to update the GUI style and layout to something more pleasing on the eye in the near future. Aside from that I do not have any concrete planned features.

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Is it possible to bind an axis of a joypad/stick/hotas to one of the thruster gauges created with this mod? (Or would at least be possible for a mod to do that :P)

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Is it possible to bind an axis of a joypad/stick/hotas to one of the thruster gauges created with this mod? (Or would at least be possible for a mod to do that :P)

With the current mod I don't think it's possible to do so. I could create action groups for each extra throttle so the user could map a key to the action group. The user could then of course map this key to a button on a joystick, but for an additional throttles to be bound to an axis I wouldn't know how to facilitate that at this point.

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Do these functions impact fuel economy negatively?

If I set the engines to level off at say, 80%, and my throttle is at 100%, does that mean that my engines are 1. still running at 80% and 2. the fuel economy would be the same as if they're running at 80%?

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Do these functions impact fuel economy negatively?

If I set the engines to level off at say, 80%, and my throttle is at 100%, does that mean that my engines are 1. still running at 80% and 2. the fuel economy would be the same as if they're running at 80%?

Yes, fuel is handled correctly, so in your example fuel would be expended at a level you would expect for an engine running at 80%.

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With the current mod I don't think it's possible to do so. I could create action groups for each extra throttle so the user could map a key to the action group. The user could then of course map this key to a button on a joystick, but for an additional throttles to be bound to an axis I wouldn't know how to facilitate that at this point.

A bit late, but nonetheless, I felt again the need for that in a plane I was building so I looked a bit around... I noticed that on the sourcode for infernal robotics they call Unity's Input.GetKey function

would adding on the OnUpdate override something like the line below work? (I'm unsure how you would go about to find the axis name, googling for it)

if (joystickIsEnabled) throttle1 = UnityEngine.GetAxis("axisname");

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I actually tested out a bit, Input.GetAxis("axisname"); works, returns a float between -1 and 1 and the AxisName in kerbal has been configurated in InputManager as joyX.Y where X is the number of the joypad in the array you get with Input.GetJoystickNames() and Y is the number of the axis.

Is it ok if I use the mod code to mess around a bit and see if I can do something with it? I doubt I'll be able to make anything significant since I never tried modding for KSP before but who knows :P

PS: 0.23 broke the mod

Edited by TheBard

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I actually tested out a bit, Input.GetAxis("axisname"); works, returns a float between -1 and 1 and the AxisName in kerbal has been configurated in InputManager as joyX.Y where X is the number of the joypad in the array you get with Input.GetJoystickNames() and Y is the number of the axis.

Is it ok if I use the mod code to mess around a bit and see if I can do something with it? I doubt I'll be able to make anything significant since I never tried modding for KSP before but who knows :P

You are free to mess around with the code. (The license also permits this.)

A way to test it would be to go to the throttle window method, aptly named "private void WindowGUITconfig(int windowID)"

and add something along the line off:

Throttleslider1 = (Input.GetAxis("axisname") + 1) / 2 * 100;

at the top of the method. This would convert the axis value (-1 to 1) to a valid slider value (0 to 100). The rest of the code would then take things from there and apply it to the engines set to throttle1.

PS: 0.23 broke the mod

Yip, just now downloaded .23. Not completely but there is definitely some new stuff going on:

Update

-An equivalent to the percentage throttle feature has now become a part of the vanilla game as the Limit thrust setting on individual engines. Because of this the percentage throttle mode in this mod will be eliminated. The other modes will be modified to take into account the limit thrust setting. These modifications have been completed and are currently in testing.

-Also the center thrust mode will be eliminated altogether. Before the improved SAS I believe this feature would have been welcomed in the absence of better alternatives such as ZRM's Kerbcom Avionics. However at this point I do not believe many users would put up with the performance this mode delivers in its current state.

I will try to deliver A 0.23 compatible version with the above adjustments in the weekend.

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Lastly there is the center thrust mode which was the original goal of the mod. Unfortunatly this mode has largely made obsolete by other mods. It works by making adjustments to individual engines to balance a ship and should make asymmetrical ships more feasible.

KerbCom Avionics is in limbo right now, and latest release basically makes KSP unplayable in 0.23 (makes reaction wheels inoperable). I don't know if it will be updated any time soon, but does the above feature basically mirror KerbCom? And if so, are there any known conflicts with MechJeb? KerbCom is known to make MechJeb's auto-docking feature not work.

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KerbCom Avionics is in limbo right now, and latest release basically makes KSP unplayable in 0.23 (makes reaction wheels inoperable). I don't know if it will be updated any time soon, but does the above feature basically mirror KerbCom? And if so, are there any known conflicts with MechJeb? KerbCom is known to make MechJeb's auto-docking feature not work.

It doesn't mirror Kerbcom Avionics in that it doesn't balance RCS and doesn't use gimbal. Also the underlying approach is different; Kerbcom uses a complex mathematical model to calculate necessary thrust of every engine in one solution, this mod makes use of an algorithm to 'walk' the Center of Thrust onto the Center of Mass by making icremental engine adjustments. Previously its performance was slow and it couldn't work under autopilot and would take some extremely disciplined manual steering to get it to stay on course.

BUT (really excited :)) based on this comment and some serendipitous insights I gained while bringing the mod on par with 0.23, I've, instead of dumping the centre thrust mode, made some MAYOR improvements to it.

-It is now so stable it can function under SAS (and with that likely also under Mechjeb).

-It can balance thrust in a few seconds even while on the pad and still fastened in the launch clamps, allowing you to take of straight at the

expense of a little fuel.

Still testing and making improvements for the moment but it's starting to look like the mod I initially wanted to make!

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1 Startup

2 Main window

3 Individual engine configuration

4 Center Thrust

5 Throttles

6 Creating a ship profile

#1 Startup

Add the part "differential thrust module" to your craft. You can find it under the control tab. It is unlocked with the "Specialized Control" tech tree node.

Before any of the functions of the module can be used it must be activated. The system is initiated by clicking the TC icon in the toolbar or by right clicking on the part and selecting "TC systems".

The module does make a backup of the configuration of the individual engine every ten seconds. When the module is reactivated at a later point, or when switching back to the vessel, it will automatically reload these settings to their respective engines and resume operations.

#2 main "Module" window

vlvXynb.png

Activating the module will automatically open the main window. From this window you can acces a number of functions.

All normal: Returns all engines on the craft to normal operation.

Center thrust: This button opens the "Center Thrust" window. This feature allows you to have the module automatically adjust the output of individual engines to bring the Center of Thrust behind the Center of Mass. See paragraph 4.

Throttle 1-4: This button opens the throttle window. This window will give four additional throttles in the form of sliders. Engines can be slaved to these extra throttles, giving more sophisticated manual control over engines. See paragraph 5.

Profiles: See paragraph 6

Deactivate: This button deactivates the entire module. Note that this button is also the only way to completely deactivate the module. Clicking on the TC icon in the toolbar will only close any open windows but the module will keep on functioning.

#3 Individual engine configuration

BLaSV10.png

After activation each engine will have a number of additional settings. These settings have been integrated into the right click menu of the engine. From top to bottom.

Thrust Limit: This setting is present in the stock game. This setting will have the engine operate at a percentage of the requested thrust.

Level Thrust: This setting will level off the thrust when the engine output reaches the set percentage of the maximum thrust. For example: if this is set at 50% of an engine with a maximum thrust of 150 kN, the engine will operate normally up until 75 kn, above this level the engine will however hold at this thrust.

Throttle: This setting allows you to select the throttle which should control this engine. 0 is the stock throttle while 1 through 4 correspond to the extra throttles this mod supplies. See parahraph 5 for further information.

Center Thrust: This toggle will determines the center thrust mode for the engine. It has three settings:

available: the default setting. In this setting the engine is available for center thrust mode corrections.

designated: In this setting the engine is designated as a center thrust engine. If the center thrust mode is set to only make use of designated engines, see paragraph 4, only these engines will be adjusted to center the thrust.

ignore: Engines set to this setting will not be taken into account in center of thrust calculations. This should only be used for engines facing in altogether different directions. This might be the case in certain VTOL designs.

net: This setting can toggled between connected and isolated. When set to 'Isolated' the engine will prevent the engine from being effected by the differential thrust module, additional throttles or other engines. By default this setting is set to 'Connected'.

Sync all: Copies the settings of this engine to all engines of the same model. (unless these other engines are set to Isolated)

#4 Center Thrust

3JGLChL.png

This mode alters the thrust of individual engines to provide a centered thrust to an otherwise unbalanced craft. Although the mode can be used to successfully balance the thrust with a wide variety of vessels you do need some background information for its correct operation and you should read this section in full.

The center thrust window can be opened by right clicking on the part and selecting and selecting "TC systems" and then clicking the “Center thrust mode†button. This opens the center thrust config windwow. (The main "Module" window can be closed if desired.)

The "Center Thrust" window presents a number of options.

Designated/All: This toggle determines whether the center thrust mode uses all engines to center the thrust or only designated engines. See paragraph 3 on how to designate an engine to center thrust mode.

Off/On: Toggles the center thrust mode on and off. When turned on all or a number of engines, depending on whether the mode is set to Designated or All, will be set to center thrust mode. (After turning on the center thrust mode the "Center Thrust" window can itself be closed if desired.)

Direction: This option opens the "Direction" window. If your engines are facing in another direction then backward in relation to the command module the ship is currently controlled from, you should first try to select another command module or docking port. If this is not possible you can use the this window to select the direction the engines are facing in relation to the command module.

This mode makes incremental adjustments to individual engines to over time move the Center of Thrust onto the Center of Mass. In the current version these adjustments are done fast enough to give a near instant corrections when necessary

The center thrust mode assumes all active engines are facing the same direction. This might cause issues in certain VTOL designs which have separate engines for vertical and forward movement. For these specific situations the engines facing other directions should be set to "ignore"; this will cause these engines to be ignored in Center of Thrust calculations.

For VTOL designs Diazo's Automated Vertical Velocity and Altitude Control can be use alongside this mod. It requires the vertical engines to be slaved to the main throttle. This mod can be used to automatically control the main throttle to have the VTOL craft to maintain a hover, or a gradual ascend or descend.

Throttle Steering: When this option is enabled the center thrust mode will offset the center of thrust based on input from the controls and SAS. It will also be used by SAS to stabilize the craft.

The exact amount of torque supplied can be set. The resulting torque will linearly scale with the size of the input. This allows precise control when used in combination with joystick. When used in combination with SAS this will result in a smooth and constant engine output.

The possible torque of throttle steering will in many cases be far greater than what can be supplied by other forms of control.

The default torque value is relatively low, but when the torque is set sufficiently high it can be used in combination with SAS to balance the thrust in response to drag for large unsymmetrical crafts. This is something which the center thrust functionality alone could not do because it does not compensate for drag and drag forces on unsymmetrical vessels are often to strong to compensate by conventional controls. When using the throttle steering in in combination with SAS, monitor KSP's control indicators in the lower left of the screen. When any of the these indicators nearing their maximum it is an indication the current torque setting is too low to compensate for drag forces.

#4 Throttles

yW53mQb.png

The module can supply four additional throttles. To access these throttles right click on the module and select “TC systems†and then click the “Throttles†button. After setting engines to one of the additional throttles, see paragraph 3, these engines can be controlled by the corresponding sliders in this window.

Controls: this button opens the Controls window:

buB35CE.png

Here you can link keyboard keys or joystick axis to a throttle. Select the throttle you want to set.

Enter the keys for throttle up and throttle down. The names of keys follow this convention (without "):

Normal keys: "a", "b", "c" ...

Number keys: "1", "2", "3", ...

Arrow keys: "up", "down", "left", "right"

Keypad keys: "[1]", "[2]", "[3]", "[+]", "[equals]"

Modifier keys: "right shift", "left shift", "right ctrl", "left ctrl", "right alt", "left alt", "right cmd", "left cmd"

Mouse Buttons: "mouse 0", "mouse 1", "mouse 2", ...

Joystick Buttons (from any joystick): "joystick button 0", "joystick button 1", "joystick button 2", ...

Joystick Buttons (from a specific joystick): "joystick 1 button 0", "joystick 1 button 1", "joystick 2 button 0", ...

Special keys: "backspace", "tab", "return", "escape", "space", "delete", "enter", "insert", "home", "end", "page up", "page down"

Function keys: "f1", "f2", "f3", ...

Alternatively enter the joystick number and axis number. This can be usually be accomplished with trial an error. Both joystick number and axis number start of from 0. So if you have one joystick with three axis the joystick number is likely 0 and the correct axis number is either 0, 1 or 2.

Press 'Set' to commit the chosen controls. If both data for keys and for joystick is enter the throttle will default to keys.

Press 'Clear' to remove current control settings from a throttle.

#7 Creating a ship profile

wTkfKzt.png

Right click on the module and select “TC systems†and then click the “Profiles†button. In this window you can save and load profiles for use in multiple ships of the same type. In addition to the configuration of individual engines this mode also saves all the other module settings.

Pro tips.

-If engines burn a different speed they will run out of fuel a different times.

-Be carefull when trying to switch engines to different throttles while mid burn. This will hardly never work out exactly like imagined.

-The configuration of individual engines is only backed up into the central module every ten seconds. This should be taken into account when saving the game. For example: after making prelaunch adjustments to engines configuration you should wait ten seconds before making a your prelaunch quicksave.

Edited by PrivateFlip

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1 Startup

2 Main window

3 Individual engine configuration

4 Center Thrust

5 Throttles

6 Saving and loading

7 Creating a default ship profile

Great update! And thanks for the Joystick, now I'm out for the holidays so I have no way to test it, if it helps (and you haven't noticed already) from what I tested before leaving home some axis on the joysticks need an "invert" options, for example all the throttle levers on the Saitek X65F have a value of 1 on the "off" state, and decreases to -1 while you throttle up.

A question out of curiosity, I've been looking at the code and I saw that (at least the .22 version) you added a module to the engines when the ship is loaded and saved in some strange way the values. I was wondering why is that, wouldn't adding the module to all engines using ModuleManager let you save all the configurations you need in the added module normally? Is it because that way you can add it to all engines without making a .cfg file for all engine/mods or is there another reason?

Thanks again for the mod, I can't wait to test it properly, especially now with the improvements.

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Those fancy options are great, but does this mode have the old good throttle steering option?

I may have missed it somewhere in the thread, then excuse my reading. I remember testing the mentioned Throttle Steering mod, and although it definitelly have had some issues, ASAS seemed to center thrust quite well just by applying inputs without any "center thrust" options, simply by trial and error. Not to neglect any advantages of having many accessable options, but the simplier is the better, huh? Assymetrical fuel consumption is not a big problem when you have a cluster of engines beneath one tank, or you can use the fuel balancer mod.

Also, I remember some other mod, not sure how it was called, that implemented "Isp prioritisation option" for current throttle. It is harder to make working, but is a good option for final enhanced features.

And the last, it is not entirely related to your mod, but there just aren't any working thrust correctors for 0.23 since Arcturus stopped working. ;.; And no, don't point me at KIDS. It, once again, has a lot of different options but not the desired realistic "smaller thrust in atmosphere instead of enormous fuel consumption" that was the goal of Arcturus :( So, yeh, once you now how thrust adjustment work in current version, you could probably fix or rework it, I think it just needs a small hotfix, since the new VAB thrust limiting function broke its logic.

Edited by Absolute Human

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Great update! And thanks for the Joystick, now I'm out for the holidays so I have no way to test it, if it helps (and you haven't noticed already) from what I tested before leaving home some axis on the joysticks need an "invert" options, for example all the throttle levers on the Saitek X65F have a value of 1 on the "off" state, and decreases to -1 while you throttle up.

Yes, the joystick support is still very basic. Will add an invert option soon. Also currently the joystick settings can only be saved in a profile, this will also be changed in later versions.

A question out of curiosity, I've been looking at the code and I saw that (at least the .22 version) you added a module to the engines when the ship is loaded and saved in some strange way the values. I was wondering why is that, wouldn't adding the module to all engines using ModuleManager let you save all the configurations you need in the added module normally? Is it because that way you can add it to all engines without making a .cfg file for all engine/mods or is there another reason?

I have thought about using module manager. Module manager does allow you to add a module to for example every part with an engine module so creating a .cfg file for every engine is not required. However the way this mod takes control over engines is a little invasive. It works for the stock engines but I'd hate to be the one to break another mod which gives a specialized engine. This is why I've chosen to add to modules to the engine dynamically during flight after activation of the module. This way the mod can be turned on and off. In the current version the central module does make regular backups of the configuration of individual engines and automatically loads this back to the engine if it's reactivated at a later point or returning to a save. This makes settings to engines persistent.

Thanks again for the mod, I can't wait to test it properly, especially now with the improvements.

Your welcome, I'm quite proud of the last version.

Those fancy options are great, but does this mode have the old good throttle steering option?

I may have missed it somewhere in the thread, then excuse my reading. I remember testing the mentioned Throttle Steering mod, and although it definitelly have had some issues, ASAS seemed to center thrust quite well just by applying inputs without any "center thrust" options, simply by trial and error. Not to neglect any advantages of having many accessable options, but the simplier is the better, huh? Assymetrical fuel consumption is not a big problem when you have a cluster of engines beneath one tank, or you can use the fuel balancer mod.

Also, I remember some other mod, not sure how it was called, that implemented "Isp prioritisation option" for current throttle. It is harder to make working, but is a good option for final enhanced features.

This mod does not have a throttle steering option, although Ruffus's mod might still work .23.

The center thrust mode adjust the thrust of individual engines so the CoT lines up with the CoM. ASAS does not do this.

To illustrate take the following vessel:

9xsYM70.png

In short this vessel is completely unbalanced. Normally such a vessel would immediately veer off after launch and plow itself into KSP's lawn maybe a little over thirty meters from the launch pad. No manual steering or SAS would be able to prevent this. The center thrust mod will however downregulate some of the outer engines, in this particular example, in such a way that the combined thrust of all the engines lies directly behind the CoM, which will allow the vessel to take of straight. After decoupling one of the outer engine mid flight the center thrust mod will rebalance the remaining outer engines and central skipper to again produce a centered thrust.

And the last, it is not entirely related to your mod, but there just aren't any working thrust correctors for 0.23 since Arcturus stopped working. ;.; And no, don't point me at KIDS. It, once again, has a lot of different options but not the desired realistic "smaller thrust in atmosphere instead of enormous fuel consumption" that was the goal of Arcturus :( So, yeh, once you now how thrust adjustment work in current version, you could probably fix or rework it, I think it just needs a small hotfix, since the new VAB thrust limiting function broke its logic.

Also had some issues with my mod after the .23 update, it was a indeed small hotfix to make it compatible. CaptainArbitrary, hasn't been around for a few months. I'll take a look at this and see if it can be fixed.

Edited by PrivateFlip

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Ruffus's mod might still work .23

Maybe, the problem is it always worked kinda strange, I've tested it few versions ago, and was quite impressed.

No manual steering or SAS would be able to prevent this.

Of course, I mean Throttle Steering actually could!

When your launched an unbalanced craft with it, ASAS (I mean the computer, not the reaction wheel) started to make corrections and they affected the very throttle steering option, making pointing in the right direction possible. That said, it potentially covered your center thrust AND throttle steering option. If you can steer, so why not to simply steer up? The problem of Ruffus's mod was in its weird behaviour in certain situations. For example, you were going up slightly swaying from side to side, and then, after one bigger swing ALL your thrusters started to bate thrust and you quickly found your rocket falling rotating to the ground with almost no thrust. At least I remember it happening. Another thing was when you had thrust set to zero and then started to turn with "throttle steering" on: engines on one side began to burn... or maybe that happened only when you had RCS on. So, "It’s like RCS." as his spaceport page says. I mean, it didn't really maintain the summary thrust equal to throttle, that was the problem. If it also has a limiter for the correction value, about 10%-50% but 100%, It would a very-very good plugin, as now it only counts as an experiment. Why am I saying it to you? Well, there is not such mod around here, and your mod is related with thrust adjusments, and seems pretty promising. I can't believe that thrust correction wouldn't been accepted and come handy in the community. What is the fun in building big wide skycranes if you can steer them only with reaction wheels or RCS? Yep, consider it.

And It will be great if you can fix Arcturus's corrector.

Edited by Absolute Human

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Okay, made some small updates to the last update.

-Aside from joystick support the mod now also has keyboard support for the additional throttles, joystick axis can be inverted.

-In regard to the center thrust mode an engine can be set to not be taken into account. This can be useful for engines which provide thrust in other directions than the one in which the center thrust mode is currently active. Important for VTOL designs.

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Cool mod! Does it work with dtobi's shuttle engines mod?

Edit: did some testing, and no unfortunately... The mod has naturally angled engines(that can be pitched to any angle), which means it's possible for you to have a fuel tank attached without a rocket, but this mod can't angle the rockets to stabilise(here's a pic to help you understand)

8imE3dj.png

As you can see when i decouple the boosters there will be a tank full of fuel and no rocket.

It would be awesome to see support for this kind of thing!(pitch-able vectoring etc.) Again great mod, just doesn't like working with shuttles :P

Edited by Boamere

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Stumbled across this thread and I thought I would chip in...

Regarding sticks, I have a couple of utilities that could be of some use to users of this mod.

The first is called UJR and will allow people to create a virtual joystick with inverted axes if required. This is also useful for other things in KSP, such as making an XBOX pad work better, or combining two racing pedals into a virtual rudder.

The second is currently in it's infancy. It is called MultiThrottle and is another virtual stick app that is designed to let you emulate multiple throttle levers using one physical throttle. ie in this mod, it would let you control all engines with one throttle, but you hold one button to make your throttle control one engine and a different button to make the throttle control another engine.

As it stands, MultiThrottle requires you to install AutoHotkey and my ADHD library, plus configure some values in the source script, but ultimately it should be a stand-alone EXE like UJR, with all options selectable using a GUI. For more information on setting it up, view the source.

Being still in it's infancy, I am open to suggestions as to how the whole thing should work when it is finished.

enjoy ;)

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I have been looking for this mod for a while, searching the forums for "throttle" and "engine" because I forgot what it was called. Can you put "throttle" in the title? It might help people find it. Thanks.

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And It will be great if you can fix Arcturus's corrector.

Okay finally got around to do this. As I attempted to compile the unaltered code to see how it functions in game and how the new 0.23 ModuleEngine conflicts with the mod which wasn't apparent from the code, I ended already solving the problem :)

Here's the download link. If you or anyone familiar with the mod could verify its correct functioning? In my testing the mod did reduces the max thrust at sealevel which slowly climbed up to close to the normal maximum at around 35.000 meter.

-The license as provided by the CaptainArbitrary is as follows: "All the source code is available. Anybody's free to take it and do whatever they want with it. Go nuts."

-Source code is part of the download.

Edited by PrivateFlip

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Those fancy options are great, but does this mode have the old good throttle steering option?

I may have missed it somewhere in the thread, then excuse my reading. I remember testing the mentioned Throttle Steering mod, and although it definitelly have had some issues, ASAS seemed to center thrust quite well just by applying inputs without any "center thrust" options, simply by trial and error. Not to neglect any advantages of having many accessable options, but the simplier is the better, huh? Assymetrical fuel consumption is not a big problem when you have a cluster of engines beneath one tank, or you can use the fuel balancer mod.

Also, I remember some other mod, not sure how it was called, that implemented "Isp prioritisation option" for current throttle. It is harder to make working, but is a good option for final enhanced features.

And the last, it is not entirely related to your mod, but there just aren't any working thrust correctors for 0.23 since Arcturus stopped working. ;.; And no, don't point me at KIDS. It, once again, has a lot of different options but not the desired realistic "smaller thrust in atmosphere instead of enormous fuel consumption" that was the goal of Arcturus :( So, yeh, once you now how thrust adjustment work in current version, you could probably fix or rework it, I think it just needs a small hotfix, since the new VAB thrust limiting function broke its logic.

Incidentally, KIDS does have the ISP thrust adjustment option. It's in the Stock KSP section, and it's called "Thrust varies with ISP"

I've used Arcturus up until it stopped working, and I've always liked it's simplicity. I'm going to compare KIDS to the updated Arcturus mod and see how they differ.

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One thing I noticed trying this out just now is that using the centered thrust stops my sepatrons from firing. A normal run with mechjeb in control they fire off with each staging as usual. I put the control part for this on, configured the booster motors for centered thrust and the sepatrons don't fire when staging. I tried setting the sepatrons as 'ignore' and the net off but it still doesn't fire them.

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