[0.22] UbioZur Welding Ltd. 2.0 Dev STOPPED

[Galacticruler]

Jet velocity curve is the time it takes an engine to spin up and/or the max speed it moves at at a set throttle level.

Don't hold me to that, just what I think I remember.

[UbioZur]

Bug report:

If I radially attach things, then I can only attach the welded part to my rocket by the nodes that appear at the radial attachment points.

Example (5x X200-16 tanks arranged in a 4-pointed star using I-beams):

I'm not familiar enough with KSP's part system to derive what's wrong with this, but it simply refuses to attach as a vertical stack.. it'll snap to a node, but when I click the part remains semi-transparent and red-tinged meaning it's placed but not attached... I can successfully radially attach it though.

Also, if I summon one as the root (first) part, I can successfully attach other parts to it.

Thanks for the report, I will have a look at that, you seems not the be the only one having this problem.

Great mod future releases should have better compatibility when trying to weld modded parts as only my stock parts in the weld load and the VAB freezes up after if i use modded parts, so better compatibility with mods would be great

Mods Compatibility

It would take too long to support/test mods parts. So make sure you backup your save file.

Most parts pack should work the same way than stock parts.

Mods that have MODULE{} should be fine as long as you don't merge two parts with similar MODULE{} (A warning message will appear but still allow the welding).

Mods creator can play with the source code to make their mods compatible and then pm me the source so I can merge them. I will not maintain this part of the code as the mod/game get updated.

Feel free to share in this thread what mods works and don't work (work around?) for everyone to know.

Mods I use, and or mods I consider important to have it working for, I may have a look, but considering the amount of mods out there, and the amount of parts, I can't test everything, it's already hard to get all the exceptions from stock parts.

Jet velocity curve is the time it takes an engine to spin up and/or the max speed it moves at at a set throttle level.

Don't hold me to that, just what I think I remember.

Humm ok, I haven't found anything on the wiki for that, so I don't even know what's the numbers are for. If it's the time, then I guess it's working well as is, if it's the max speed, it's not working as it should.

[HoY]

Jet velocity curve is actually the amount of thrust represented by 0-1 for 0-100% of maximum thrust based on your current air speed. For example, the curve of the turbojet engine has its thrust set at 0.5 when it is moving at 0m/s and does not reach its full thrust until airspeed reaches somewhere around 1400m/s. the top end of the curve also has a thrust cut off where the engine simply does not put anything else out. The turbojet is something like 2350m/s for that one

This would look like this in the curve

0 0.5

1400 1

2350 0

[UbioZur]

Jet velocity curve is actually the amount of thrust represented by 0-1 for 0-100% of maximum thrust based on your current air speed. For example, the curve of the turbojet engine has its thrust set at 0.5 when it is moving at 0m/s and does not reach its full thrust until airspeed reaches somewhere around 1400m/s. the top end of the curve also has a thrust cut off where the engine simply does not put anything else out. The turbojet is something like 2350m/s for that one

This would look like this in the curve

0 0.5

1400 1

2350 0

Thanks for that

So it seems that currently if we use the same type of engine, it stays good without modifying it. I just need to consider multiple type of engine. (jet + turbo jet)

[Whackjob]

Might be fun to make these with the aid of this mod.

[Bobhendly]

Im Debating whether I should get this.. Does this mod create its own build tab, and act like a Subassembly mod, with the addition of WELDING The parts? Im already crowded on parts in my build menu.

[Sparker]

Is it possible to weld fuel tanks with Modular FUel System installed?

[UbioZur]

Might be fun to make these with the aid of this mod.

Go for it

Im Debating whether I should get this.. Does this mod create its own build tab, and act like a Subassembly mod, with the addition of WELDING The parts? Im already crowded on parts in my build menu.

Sadly not. I could says use Part catalog, but apparently there is a bug with my mod and Part Catalog (I will try to look into it).

A solution for this is something that I will look for.

Is it possible to weld fuel tanks with Modular FUel System installed?

I don't know. I can't even really see what the mod do, and mainly how it change the data in the game.

[Ryugi]

This plugin is, by far, the single most amazing thing I have seen for KSP. Granted, it doesn't let each part behave like its own physics object anymore, which takes away SOME of the fun of things, but I'd rather have great FPS and huge, complex ships than have each light, RCS tank, strut, etc have its own physics that bog the system down all the time.

Thank you so much for this. My KSP experience will never be the same, and in a good way. =D

[Piloter]

So will it let you semi-break the tree structure (one-to-three adapter, three fuel tanks or whatnot, then a three-to-one adapter that will have ALL the tanks connect)?

[UbioZur]

This plugin is, by far, the single most amazing thing I have seen for KSP. Granted, it doesn't let each part behave like its own physics object anymore, which takes away SOME of the fun of things, but I'd rather have great FPS and huge, complex ships than have each light, RCS tank, strut, etc have its own physics that bog the system down all the time.

Thank you so much for this. My KSP experience will never be the same, and in a good way. =D

Well the idea being to lower the fps by avoid the process of physic on every parts, of course then the physics is not process. After it all depend how badly you merge parts, I like to do it for structural parts (grider/stuts etc) as it's what take the most part amount, and usualy don't get disconected that easily. and also for those dual/tri/quad coupler for the look of them.

So will it let you semi-break the tree structure (one-to-three adapter, three fuel tanks or whatnot, then a three-to-one adapter that will have ALL the tanks connect)?

Yes it does as at the end you end up with just one part.

Edit: Just saw that Scott Mnley did a video, and that anwser your question too Piloter

Edited October 14, 2013 by UbioZur

[Ryugi]

After messing around ingame for a few minutes, I can safely say that the plugin does NOT work correctly with Lack Luster Labs parts. It does merge them together into a single part, yes. However, it doesn't save the orientation of the parts correctly, and what emerges is a horribly disfigured and conglomerated mess of floating boxes, all disjointed and merged in strange ways.

[Ratzap]

I'm sure you're inundated with reports but here's another: welding doesn't work with Hexcans or Extra planetary launchpad bits. I get told there are parts left over and a half fused thing with lots missing

[Sparker]

At the moment the aerodynamic parts of the KSP still use a old pre 0.15 version of the config file. It's a bit harder to merge them. I will have a look for them, but later once everything else is more stable.

I didn't try to weld wings or control surfaces, I only welded some other parts. And after welding these parts standart control surfaces aren't shown in FAR control surface setup.

I think that at this moment this mod isn't compatible with FAR(or vice versa) as I get different aerodynamic results with the same welded and not welded constructions.

[Mishkin_007]

Question - if I weld a series of parts together with a docking port on it...does that docking port still work normally?

[UbioZur]

After messing around ingame for a few minutes, I can safely say that the plugin does NOT work correctly with Lack Luster Labs parts. It does merge them together into a single part, yes. However, it doesn't save the orientation of the parts correctly, and what emerges is a horribly disfigured and conglomerated mess of floating boxes, all disjointed and merged in strange ways.

Thanks for the info.

I'm sure you're inundated with reports but here's another: welding doesn't work with Hexcans or Extra planetary launchpad bits. I get told there are parts left over and a half fused thing with lots missing

The part left over warning is because there are some module that duplicated and it's not managed to know how to do it (mainly all the mods modules, since I can't go through all the mods)

I didn't try to weld wings or control surfaces, I only welded some other parts. And after welding these parts standart control surfaces aren't shown in FAR control surface setup.

I think that at this moment this mod isn't compatible with FAR(or vice versa) as I get different aerodynamic results with the same welded and not welded constructions.

Humm strange, may be FAR add some things to the config file that i don't transfer. thanks for the info.

Question - if I weld a series of parts together with a docking port on it...does that docking port still work normally?

At the current date, one docking port will work as normal, several docking port should work but the undock button doesn't tell you which port it is for.

[Neutrinovore]

I can confirm the non-compatibility with LLL parts. I ended up with a 'ship' that looked more like an abstract Salvador Dali sculpture collided with an office building.

[Gailardia]

I can confirm the non-compatibility with LLL parts. I ended up with a 'ship' that looked more like an abstract Salvador Dali sculpture collided with an office building.

brb welding lack luster parts together

[mythbusters844]

Seems like the new update fixed the unresponsive VAB, but I found something out. It seems as if when you weld a ton of parts together, the drag value gets added. This results in a drag value of 120 for a part with many parts welded with it, which can lower the terminal velocity to as low as 20 meters per second, making ascents impossible. I think the drag value should be averaged over all the parts or just stay 0.2 (the default value). The reason for the drag not being added together is because of how KSP handles drag.

[UbioZur]

I can confirm the non-compatibility with LLL parts. I ended up with a 'ship' that looked more like an abstract Salvador Dali sculpture collided with an office building.

brb welding lack luster parts together

Thanks for the report, I had a quick look and it seems that LLL use texture data in the MODEL {} which I did not managed, it should be easy to fix that. not sure for all the rotation stuff however.

Seems like the new update fixed the unresponsive VAB, but I found something out. It seems as if when you weld a ton of parts together, the drag value gets added. This results in a drag value of 120 for a part with many parts welded with it, which can lower the terminal velocity to as low as 20 meters per second, making ascents impossible. I think the drag value should be averaged over all the parts or just stay 0.2 (the default value). The reason for the drag not being added together is because of how KSP handles drag.

Ok it is how I though it would be managed in game, but I can do the average without problem and we can test if it's better. Thanks for the report.

[KAO]

so I downloaded and welded 4 trusses and 4 radial connector ports to a tank. I select the part and it wouldn't let me connect my command pod to the 2.5m tank that's part of the weld. BUT it does let me connect the truss that's part of the welded part.

so basically: I create a welded part, won't let me connect it normally, only lets me connect if I flip it to the right

[deadshot462]

Very interesting mod.

Are there plans to allow EVA kerbals to use a "welder" to merge parts on launched ships? This would be VERY useful on space stations.

[little square dot]

Very interesting mod.

Are there plans to allow EVA kerbals to use a "welder" to merge parts on launched ships? This would be VERY useful on space stations.

KAS allows certain parts to be attached on EVA, but welding is .cfg based.

[Ryugi]

Thanks for the report, I had a quick look and it seems that LLL use texture data in the MODEL {} which I did not managed, it should be easy to fix that. not sure for all the rotation stuff however.

I hope so. B9 hit my memory cap, so LLL is the only other option with a significant amount of "spacey sci-fi" parts, other than "KSP Interstellar" which I also have. My guess is that the plugin probably doesn't recognize the texture bits in the model, and so tries to spit out the closest approximation of what it thinks it is. It's possible that the collision meshes are where they should be for the parts, but the placement of the texture or what you see isn't properly translated.

Granted, I know nothing about coding or how the guts of things work, but if you fix the compatibility issues with the textures in the model files, maybe the rest of the data will fall in line, and things will line up. If not, well, it sucks, but them's the breaks...

Either way, thanks for this mod. Truly awesome. =D

[Yanek]

Awesome work!

Sadly, it as some compatibility issues with ModuleManager wich is another essential plugin, IMHO... D':

Don't know if something can be done, see here:

ModuleManager cannot tell if you've gone into the debug menu and reloaded all config files! If you do this, you will wipe out all mods.