[0.22] UbioZur Welding Ltd. 2.0 Dev STOPPED

[HoY]

Nice are you Both doing this? or is this two separate people doing similar things at the same time?

and when installing engines on those hard points can we use symmetry or do we have to place them one at a time?

[Teirusu]

Symmetry works, you just have to enable part clipping in the debug menu for most of the adapters. I'm making these myself at the moment, although UbioZur would be welcome to include these in his mod as long as credit is due. Once I finish them up.

[HoY]

Are you shortening up the tail cones? Would you consider doing the same thing with regular length cones? Could just be the camera angle looking great so far tho!

[Teirusu]

Yes, I'm shortening the tail cones, quite a bit, in fact. I'll consider making them a little longer, or releasing the full length ones. The reason I'm shortening them is because I always found that they tended to get in the way of where I wanted to place radial decouplers and struts, particularly if you wanted to use any tanks shorter then the orange one.

It also seemed odd to me that they'd go up more then half the length of the orange tank. Although, I think I'll agree that I have them a just a little too short at the moment. I'll keep tinkering with them xD

[HoY]

What about for the 12 node cluster leaving them full length, because why would you be putting 2520 kn of thrust under a smaller tank than a jumbo? Lol. Seriously tho I'm sure whatever you decide on will look and work great

[Thrundar]

I think it would be more wise to weld parts that are actually used more(as a quantity on a spaceship), rather than just fuel tanks.

This, however, would mean such parts would be less useful overall due to the larger variety of choices for their placement.

For example RTGs on a 1m fuel tank. Or 4 Solar panels on a crew module, or a chassis for rovers using the all different types of wheels.

The fuel tanks is /are a good starting point, as that is where we all start our launches/flights. The reduction in part count resulted in greatly improved FPS at launch for my old PC. Of course, the more commonly used part combinations welded together the better.

Very nice to see some talent here "tricking" the game engine to perform as it should instead of being such a resource hog.

[praise the suuun]

would it be possible to build a ship completely out of steel panels, entirely in .cfg? im dreaming up something big but im so new to this welding concept.

[UbioZur]

Can you make a double Tri-FL-T800 Fuel Tank?

It's planned

Heres the actual cluster I want you to look at

Cool thanks.

I think it would be more wise to weld parts that are actually used more(as a quantity on a spaceship), rather than just fuel tanks.

This, however, would mean such parts would be less useful overall due to the larger variety of choices for their placement.

For example RTGs on a 1m fuel tank. Or 4 Solar panels on a crew module, or a chassis for rovers using the all different types of wheels.

Different people uses differents sets of parts.

I don't want to remove the flexibility of the game. And slowly I will add more and more as peope will ask and I will need.

would it be possible to build a ship completely out of steel panels, entirely in .cfg? im dreaming up something big but im so new to this welding concept.

It could be possible. as well as pre made fearing.

Teirusu, you are doing a great job.

If you want to help I'll be glad to have you working on this project too. As long as we agree on the direction the mod need to be (Keeping it stock like with CoM / Weight / Price / Ressources /Not too much scaling, not for those til cone. Will send you a pm).

[elkar]

Well, from what I've understood, would be best to make a subassembly similar tool where you can save parts you want to weld togeather. Of courrse for ship/rocket designs it would mean to save/weld each stage differently. But then still a 350 part ship would be 20 parts with 6 stage parts and lets say few decouplers or tricky parts like commandpods. it would be still huge deal to have 60 fps instead of 10.

Now running around, design and test it, then weld it is kinda loong process.

[HoY]

The easiest thing I could see being implemented is an out of game app that takes a small .craft file, reads the positions of the connections then generated a part out of it. Being done out of the game it would need a different, more general programming skillset that wouldn't restrict you to CS programming as I believe the unity engine needs? (Correct me if I'm wrong)

[Moon Goddess]

I wonder how possible it could be to write a program that takes a .craft file, loads up all the .cfgs for the parts and welds the whole thing.....

EDIT: Sorry hadn't refreshed didn't mean to duplicate HoY's post

[InfiniteDice]

I wonder how possible it could be to write a program that takes a .craft file, loads up all the .cfgs for the parts and welds the whole thing.....

EDIT: Sorry hadn't refreshed didn't mean to duplicate HoY's post

Just a guess but you may not want to do something that encompassing having wings on opposite sides of the ship cfg'd together like this might cause issues with the drag/lift or other properties that may need to be independent of one another. Adding multiple parts under one cfg may be essentially grouping/children of/nesting them under one gameobject/parent.

Not sure how this could affect the code on certain parts.

I'd say stick to welding structural parts unless you test and discover that it's safe for other parts.

[HoY]

I was thinking more along the lines of say a backbone structure for a large rover, with Girders and steel plates built into the single part. Having 1 part that has multiple parts that have different functions ie wings or engines or different types of fuel tanks would probably severely break the game. Tho I think having a bunch of the same type of engine clustered onto the bottom of a fuel tank, saved as one part, would simply come out as one engine with the combined thrust and mass, with the same vectoring effect, and also have fuel capacity as built in. The same way the welded rcs and lfo tanks merge their resources.

[HoY]

I was just thinking..... Is there any way to save the part config into the .craft file?? Say if we build a creation using this pack, save it then try to load it in a completely vanilla instillation? Is there some way we can get the information saved in the cfg for that part to actually make the part without it being installed.

I know the .craft saves information from some parts and not just 'this part goes there', as an example look at docking ports that have been modified with lazor cam. It is info saved in the cfg for that part, but if you look in the .craft file the entries are all there from the part cfg.

[Themohawkninja]

This was the very first thing I suggested on the forums, and a dev told me he tried and failed to do this, but you succeeded... sweet.

I think I'll wait until .21 since it's nearly out, but I almost can't believe this now exists!

One question though, does welding wing parts together effectively work?

[UbioZur]

I do spend some times on thinking how a in game tools could be done. The concept itself is there, I just need to find solutions for the parts that are not normalized with the game. Take the FL-T800 tank, the cfg file give it a lenght of 30 and scale of .1, while most of the other are a scale of 1. And it was a pain to weld with a itm of scale 1.

So the ig tool would need to cover that.

Also I have had issue with rew hatch when welding parts, I don't completly understand how they work at the moment.

Animated items will be a pain to weld too.

And items that generates ressources (solar panels), different generations will be a pain to managed.

Multiple docking ports are bad too.

And of course, creating a new .cfg could be find, it would still need to get the game reloading all the data.

So far I keep it theorical concept. and once .21 is out, I will have more trial at the programing itself, to see what I can gather.

I was just thinking..... Is there any way to save the part config into the .craft file??

Eventually it could be possible, but a pain to do as we won't know what is the parent/child connections.

I usualy do my build full vanilla, and then replace with the welded parts. It allow me for more flexibility on the creation and then I ty to reduce part count.

One question though, does welding wing parts together effectively work?

Wings that have the same plan shouldn't be a problem to weld together. it's just about having the position of the center of lift.

[HoY]

Power generation parts like RTG's would be extremely simple to add to something since all you need is the model of it stuck on, and to add full time electrical current of +45 per minute.

Solar panels and other parts with animations would be extremely difficult I agree with you on that.

[Locob]

love it!

I had this idea when I created this large fuel tank in 0.17. In than time (and still) I had no idea how to weld models in one single part or extract them, then I had to create a new one (trying to match the stock)

I am really grateful that you did this.

could you teach how you did it?

BTW: I can't play the game for a long time, and I want to know some thing: the long fuel tanks still have the super overheating problem? if not, how you solved it?

[Morty_jhones]

Could you pleas make a try-fl but with your Jumbo 64-FL-R1 combo instead. would help with big ships

[DaRocketCat]

I think you should make some welded wings and fuselages!

[Teirusu]

I think you should make some welded wings and fuselages!

There's a problem with this idea. People's creations for planes tend to be highly unique, thus it would be almost impossible to have combinations of welded wings and fuselages that would make everyone happy.

More-over, welded wings themselves might incur their own share of problems. Take for example, a long wing make with the Wing Connector part. You have lots of joints within that wing which allows it to bend and flex depending on the G-load. (Remember, the wing is carrying the whole weight of the aircraft.) While this tends to make the plane fly pretty weird usually, this spreads the stresses evenly along the wing's joints. If you were to make 2x or 3x Wing Connector parts and made a wing out of them, you'd be reducing the number of joints in the wing, thus the stresses get concentrated into those fewer joints. The wings will still bend, perhaps not at much, but may be more prone to just snapping off.

I think the Procedural Wing plugin would be better for this kind of thing.

[Apollo_A]

empty welded fuel tanks?

[UbioZur]

I am busy with work at the moment, so I don't come to the forum everyday, and mainly want to chill and rest afterward.

I have decided to integrate Teirusu to the team, as it take time to weld things, and he is doing a great job.

love it!

I had this idea when I created this large fuel tank in 0.17. In than time (and still) I had no idea how to weld models in one single part or extract them, then I had to create a new one (trying to match the stock)

I am really grateful that you did this.

could you teach how you did it?

BTW: I can't play the game for a long time, and I want to know some thing: the long fuel tanks still have the super overheating problem? if not, how you solved it?

Look earlier on the thread, I posted a link t a twich tv stream that will show you how it's done, there is also a link to the wiki about it. we basically the .20 new cfg path.

For the overheating problems, it will mainly always be there as the longer the tank, the further the CoM is from the engine and so the less heat dissipation there is. Unity design!

Could you pleas make a try-fl but with your Jumbo 64-FL-R1 combo instead. would help with big ships

tri-coupler are not 2.5m attachement, so it is possible but I won't do it since I require to scale a part and would make it game changing

I think you should make some welded wings and fuselages!

I do plan on playing with few wings, probably just weilding 2-3 wing connector. After as Teirusu said, it will mess with the flexibility.

empty welded fuel tanks?

I won't empty tank as they are not stock, but you can easily change the cfg to have them empty. Theyre are usualy at the end

RESOURCE
{
 name = FuelName
 amount = 5760 <- Current amount to change to 0
 maxAmount = 5760
}

[firerider521]

Available on Space sport

....Space...Sport?

*nitpicknitpicknitpick*

[Absolute Human]

How about adding more attachment nodes on the M-4x4 Structural Panel like it is actual four 2x2 structural panels?

Or even a node on every key point of crossing lines... Like nine of them in total?

More is better then less! And it will help to place stuff on them with great accuracy.

I would add them myself, but I don't know the exact distance between them, which I guess is easy to figure when editing a part.

And for those who asked- you could create engine clusters by adding more nodes below a fuel tank.

And btw, it looks like the tanks have an invisible surface in the connection between them, or is it me?

Removing all unnecessary textures between the original parts will increase the perfomance a bit, I think.

But, yeh, I can accept that it can be tricky to edit.

*never mind the second paragraph, i've realisised how this stuff in cfg works

Edited August 21, 2013 by Absolute Human