malkuth Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Question.. Why not just EVA all your Kerbals... Update to .21 when it comes out.. Then load them into the ship? Bam Now they use the new loading system. Unless EVA is changing too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 That's unfortunate. I'll have to start new I guess. Will crafts be broken as well?I second that question, "Will crafts be broken as well?" Does anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whackjob Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Some of my craft have taken me upwards of sixteen hours to construct just to the absurd complexity I put into these things. If 2.1 comes along and they're all no good, you know what I'm going to do?I'm gonna build it again, but better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostiken Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 While we've been able to maintain compatibility over the last couple of updates, unfortunately this one isn't such a case. The new crew management system changed the format for saving crews (to something much better), and the new format isn't compatible with the old version. Instead of risking breaking things even more by writing some sort of upgrade logic, we decided it was better to just break compatiblity and start fresh.This also gives us a nice opportunity to do other tweaks that we can't usually do, exactly because they tend to break saves. Because we're going to break it anyway, we can push in a lot of other little tweaks that wouldn't have gone in otherwise, so hopefully they will make it worthwhile.You can always manually edit your save so it matches the new format, but that can cause other issues, so we really don't recommend it.Stay tuned for a dev blog soon about new things that we got to add because we decided to break compatiblity. Cheers*Sigh*I'm rapidly running out of patience with you clowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smunisto Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Well, after my persistence file got misteriously broken by the magic of Unity and KSP, after more than 40 hours put into it...now this completely killed my motivation to build everything again from scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) *Sigh*I'm rapidly running out of patience with you clowns.If I must wear a "clown" moniker to get what I thought was a reasonable question answered then so be it. I'm not trolling here. I truly enjoy KSP but I'm not a "real" rocket scientist, programmer, or design engineer. I asked the question about the latest update possibly trashing craft saves so I could hold off on any further designs until the update came online. I read everything in this thread but the answer to my specific question concerning "craft save files" must have eluded me.Dev's and skilled KSP'ers alike need to understand that we lesser skilled "clowns" are not trying to disrupt this awesome forum. Rather, we are trying to understand what seems to be at times impossible to understand. That's what learning is all about. So please don't "run out of patience" and scare us off with insults and jabs.P.S. I wasn't soliciting a verbose and most likely esoteric response to my very simple question. Just a simple "yes it will" or "no it won't" would've been a really good way to respond. Edited July 5, 2013 by Ming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spades_Neil Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I actually restart every update. Provides a fresh new challenge. Plus it lets me go mod shopping and not worry about losing ships with incompatible mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
data3 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 *Sigh*I'm rapidly running out of patience with you clowns.You purchased a game that is in Alpha... That means it is not complete. This means that you have early access to a game under the proviso that they could implement changes that break everything you have already done. If you didn't know this then that is a shame, but it is the reality of where KSP is at this point in time. Once the game actually hits 1.0, one would assume there would be no more 'save breaking' updates at that point in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanamonde Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I'm rapidly running out of patience with you clowns. Ah, Frostiken. We can always count on you for sober, well-reasoned discussion. Though I must admit I'm a bit confused this time. Are you angry because your habitual demands for faster development and new features are not being met, or because we are getting development and new features? I'm not trying to be mean, by the way. This is just the criticism that you deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
data3 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 To have the sorts of opinions he has (Frostiken), he must be a blissfully ignorant - or just plain uninformed - fool. The game is in alpha for goodness sake. Just because you put money on the table doesn't mean everything should be magically complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
data3 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Yeh I don't think he was directing that at you. It looks to me like he was complaining about the devs doing this, with an attitude that assumes that he should never have to suffer such a terrible interruption to his playing of a game that is *unfinished*... I hope you get an answer to your question though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostiken Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) He's breaking the game to push to implement a feature (astronaut training center) that has absolutely ZERO use on its own. At the very worst, we will be able to visit and do nothing. At the very best, you will be able to make some tweaks to Kerbal stats and maybe even train them in things, but these stats and this training will do absolutely nothing in-game. But hey, it might kind of replace Crew Manifest, a mod that is like 200 lines of code and has been around for ages, so I guess that's worth the huge timesink.I'm shocked that you people find it totally unthinkable to, you know, NOT release half-finished features until everything else that complements it is also ready... ie: build the training center, but release it only when the career mode package is done... and it's pretty much 100% likely that the semi-final career mode will break saves once again as well.To do otherwise would be as ridiculous as releasing docking ports before they've even got the docking mechanics functional... versus releasing docking ports and the docking system at the same time. Which is what they did. Because giving us docking ports without any docking mechanics would be kind of dumb.Weird. Edited July 5, 2013 by Frostiken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
data3 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Yeah, because breaking the game to implement a feature that will have absolutely no practical use for several more versions is 'progress'. But wait, we're going to get alleged 'unannounced features', except never mind the fact that he can't describe actually what those features are. But rest assured, he said they exist, so they must!I'm shocked that you people find it totally unthinkable to, you know, NOT release half-finished features until everything else that complements it is also ready.You have classically missed the point. This is a game that is not finished. It is in ALPHA at this point in time, which means that features will be partially implemented often times before they are fully completed. If you don't want to play an unfinished game you shouldn't have purchased an unfinished game. If you can't grasp this concept then that is your fault and no-one elses.Yes, for people who have spent time building up complex save files this is disappointing, but it should be always in the back of your mind - I am playing an unfinished game, this sort of thing could happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fel Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Enough Frost. You had your "Criticisms you Deserve" thread, you don't need to start the same thing here.Question.. Why not just EVA all your Kerbals... Update to .21 when it comes out.. Then load them into the ship? Bam Now they use the new loading system. Unless EVA is changing too.EVA's are Vessels; so yes, "eva" is changing as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanamonde Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 "Breaking the game," as you put it, is not an anomaly, a disaster, or a flaw in anyone's plan. It is an inevitable aspect of developing the game, and this won't be the last time it happens. And we all knew this before we clicked on the button to buy the game. (Or at least you did if you actually read the agreement.) And there's no way they could guarantee that every aspect of the game would advance in lockstep, so that nothing was needed before it arrived, or arrived before it was needed. We had rockets before there were any destinations to fly them to, and we had Kerbals in the ships for many updates before they could get out and do anything. Those pieces were filled in later, as will uses for the crew system. Nothing about this should be surprising. Look, I've got more to lose than most. I've got over 100 missions in progress that will be lost, a station that I started building back in December, a ship that has flown to other worlds 5 times and could just keep going, several tutorials I may need to rewrite, and the several rockets, rovers, and planes I have posted to help newbies may have to be updated or scrapped. And I am angry about this to the degree of zero. Nobody made me do those things, I knew all along that they'd become obsolete at some point, I had fun doing them, and I'll have fun doing them again. Those of you who are frustrated about having to do the same things over again, well, why not simply do something else this time? Your mods may be broken, but the mods are optional and Squad never agreed to or was obligated to support them anyway, and some of us manage to keep ourselves entertained quite nicely without them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbowyer28 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Hmm from what Harvester said with "Tweaks that will also break compatability" I think either some new Planets or Resources, Who wants to bet me on this, I'm taking Designs and Muffins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smunisto Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Resources are not being implemented in any form in 0.21, this has been said already. New planets - no, more likely some already existsing planets will get tweaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptRobau Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I'm quite happy with them breaking the saves and using that opportunity to add some of the much needed tweaks that they've been putting off for so long (how long has it been since the last save-breaking update: 0.17/0.18)? Otherwise that stuff never gets done. If you don't want to break your saves, install the new version in a different location and keep them separate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tw1 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) Somehow I must've sensed this. Maybe that's why I've just been mucking around with probes and starfighters. I do hope craft files can be transferred across though. And flags, I hope to keep the ones that mark certain spots, by copying them across. Apart from that, looking forward to the things this update may lay the groundwork for. They could do so much... Edited July 5, 2013 by Tw1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umlüx Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 it will be a nice opportunity to start fresh.however.. i think i'll spare me the tedious work of assembling my giant space station in orbit again from scratch and just hyperedit it up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techonce Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Craft files: the bits I have read have not stated that will be trashed, but they will have to be reworked at a minimum. With the changes to SAS and it requiring power will force changes. What I know about craft files ( and I am not an expert!), they might be fine since they reference other parts. Save breaking whiners: Grow up. Either stay with the version you are on, or evolve with the game. The only thing whining does is make you sound like 5 year old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaySmoka Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Craft files are still compatible. The only thing that needed to break was save compatibility. Your creations should be safe... Assuming of course it's not using mods that might themselves break, or something else... compatiblity is never simple. In any case I've been using the same stock ships here as always for testing, and they didn't give us any trouble so far.Craft file are safe. For now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spades_Neil Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 tl;dr I don't know what alpha means and get very madface/drama because updates might not work rightI'll give you the long story short. The game is in alpha, meaning, this is the stage of development that they mostly add new features, ignoring all but game breaking bugs.Beta is when they fix the smaller bugs and polish those features and optimize the game, and occasionally add new features.As for the speed of these updates? At least they are coming out. I was quite irritated not long ago by StarForge alpha, because they weren't releasing even their first update on time, features were missing that were listed as already implemented, and so on, like WarZ was doing. Such is not the case here. Squad has a good history of updating their game consistently.If you lose your save files, oh well. Stuff happens. Can't help you there. I delete my save files every update and start over because I like to start with a clean install and reinstall mods from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naten Posted July 5, 2013 Author Share Posted July 5, 2013 Ermagherd. ERMAGHERD. ERMAGHERD! IT'S HIM! REALLY HIM! :D :DThank you for answering. I will inform everyone that you said this. :D Thanks again, HarvesteR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whackjob Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 BREAK THE SAVE! BREAK ALL THE SAVES!If progress means the occasional fatman CRT takes a face dive, so be it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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