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Sid

Great Googly Moogly, how I hate Windows

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Meh, the only real problems I've ever had with Windows had to do with the INSANE amount of bloatware/crapware that comes preinstalled with most pre-built laptops/desktop PCs.

I mean, seriously, why include utterly redundant network and audio control centers, which do nothing but change settings in the "proper" control panels built into the OS?

And that's not to talk about pre-installed trialware, especially antivirus software...

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you know linux suffers from the same problem. if its not configured right, you are going to have a very crappy experience. of course you can always try various distros till you find one you like and if you are really really good you can get any linux to do what you want. i cant recall ever using an os where i didnt need to tweak something so that it does what i want it to do.
This is actually part of why I love using Linux. I use Arch, which is a very minimal distro. You literally only get a command line, a package manager and a few command line tools. You get to install everything you want/need yourself. It's a bit of a bother to get started, but you get practically zero software bloat since you only install what you want and need, and my finished system with a GUI, good browser, wine, a few native games, and any other tools I might want, takes up less than a tenth of what an equivalent Ubuntu-based distro would, and a twentieth of what Windows would, all the while booting and operating nearly instantaneously thanks to native UEFI support and SSDs, while Windows would take several seconds, since it is awful at optimizing SSDs and can barely run with UEFI in the first place.

So yes, Linux needs a lot of tweaking before you can start using it properly, but once it's up and running, it stays up and running with minimal maintenance, compared to Windows which needs constant disk-upkeep, malware scans, and general tweaking.

Windows 8 is more secure and performs better then any past version of windows. If you have problems with it, you are doing something wrong.
I am forced to rely on a screenreader for most computer activities. Windows 8 is an interface designed around big images with as little text as possible, and with practically zero backwards compatibility for third party screenreaders. On Windows 7, I could do everything on my computer. On Windows 8, I could barely install a proper browser.

That is not good software design, everyone needs to realize that.

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I am forced to rely on a screenreader for most computer activities. Windows 8 is an interface designed around big images with as little text as possible, and with practically zero backwards compatibility for third party screenreaders. On Windows 7, I could do everything on my computer. On Windows 8, I could barely install a proper browser.

That is not good software design, everyone needs to realize that.

Really have no idea what you are talking about. Sometimes updates break things, that isn't bad design, that is just normal. It is up to the software companies to update THEIR software. That isn't Microsofts fault at all.

As for the interface in windows 8, it's the same thing as windows 7, it has the desktop. The only difference is the whole metro interface which will be able to be changed out come the new update.

On top of that, I was talking about performance and security, not design.

Last but not least, I could have sworn Windows 8 comes with it's own screen reader that works perfectly fine or am I mistaken on this?

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Windows 7 > Windows XP. Win7 is just basically WinXP with more features, more optimizations, more awesome (I cannot live without Aero Snap any more). In fact, I will go out on a thick limb to say Win 7 is the greatest OS Microsoft has created so far.

Also, it's really strange, many people have problems with Windows, but just as many people have problems with Mac OSX, and each respective userbase looks at the other and says "I wish I was using that instead of this PoS". The thing with Desktop and Laptop Computers is you're meant to have a massive level of customization ability with them. Literally every complaint for either OS can be disabled. Except for Windows' "Hey, there's an update, instead of asking you I'm just going to restart the computer anyway" nonsense. That's literally my only personal problem with Windows.

Sometimes updates break things, that isn't bad design, that is just normal. It is up to the software companies to update THEIR software. That isn't Microsofts fault at all.

Considering the fact we all play a game where this exact thing happens frequently, and is in fact happening in the very next update, this is a pretty "no-brainer" thing to say on these forums.

Edited by AlternNocturn

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Windows 7 > Windows XP. Win7 is just basically WinXP with more features, more optimizations, more awesome (I cannot live without Aero Snap any more).

Also, it's really strange, many people have problems with Windows, but just as many people have problems with Mac OSX, and each respective userbase looks at the other and says "I wish I was using that instead of this PoS". The thing with Desktop and Laptop Computers is you're meant to have a massive level of customization ability with them. Literally every complaint for either OS can be disabled. Except for Windows' "Hey, there's an update, instead of asking you I'm just going to restart the computer anyway" nonsense. That's literally my only personal problem with Windows.

Think they fixed that in Windows 8. Matter of fact, I used to love to tweak windows, but it just so happens that windows 8 already comes defaulted with all the tweaks you could do to improve past windows. Literally the only change I had to make was the metro interface and use a program called Start8. However, will not even need that soon. Microsoft did a very good job with windows 8.

Funny thing is, I used to believe everyone who ragged on Windows 8. Then one day decided to give it a try myself. I then was like ...

WHAT IS EVERYONE TALKING ABOUT!?!?!? This isn't bad, this is great!

I was pretty shocked. I suddenly remembered why I never trusted anyones biased opinions before.

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Really have no idea what you are talking about. Sometimes updates break things, that isn't bad design, that is just normal. It is up to the software companies to update THEIR software. That isn't Microsofts fault at all.

As for the interface in windows 8, it's the same thing as windows 7, it has the desktop. The only difference is the whole metro interface which will be able to be changed out come the new update.

On top of that, I was talking about performance and security, not design.

Last but not least, I could have sworn Windows 8 comes with it's own screen reader that works perfectly fine or am I mistaken on this?

Windows 8 does come with its own screenreader, but like all Windows screenreaders, it is awful. Microsoft themselves intended it to only be used so the user could install their own screenreader, such as JAWS. The problem is, the Windows screenreader itself can't properly handle the Metro interface, and that pretty much limits me to launching applications with Super+R, which is hardly an acceptable solution. Microsoft don't have a duty to ensure backwards compatibility, of course, but they do have a duty to ensure usability, and they've failed spectacularly on that point.

I'm just lucky I'm skilled enough with computers to install a better operating system if I were to buy something with Windows 8 (not that I would waste money on an operating system in the first place), and I pity those that don't know how to do it themselves.

Microsoft designed a user interface with less usability than their previous ones, and that is a bad design decision. You need to realize that, regardless of whether you happen to like it or not.

Finally, I thought I could demonstrate to you what I'm talking about. Go to a site made entirely out of Flash, and install the Fangs screenreader emulator plugin for Firefox, and try to use the site without looking at it. That's what Windows 8 is like.

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Windows 8 does come with its own screenreader, but like all Windows screenreaders, it is awful. Microsoft themselves intended it to only be used so the user could install their own screenreader, such as JAWS. The problem is, the Windows screenreader itself can't properly handle the Metro interface, and that pretty much limits me to launching applications with Super+R, which is hardly an acceptable solution. Microsoft don't have a duty to ensure backwards compatibility, of course, but they do have a duty to ensure usability, and they've failed spectacularly on that point.

I'm just lucky I'm skilled enough with computers to install a better operating system if I were to buy something with Windows 8 (not that I would waste money on an operating system in the first place), and I pity those that don't know how to do it themselves.

Microsoft designed a user interface with less usability than their previous ones, and that is a bad design decision. You need to realize that, regardless of whether you happen to like it or not.

Finally, I thought I could demonstrate to you what I'm talking about. Go to a site made entirely out of Flash, and install the Fangs screenreader emulator plugin for Firefox, and try to use the site without looking at it. That's what Windows 8 is like.

Bad design decision or not, as I stated before, wasn't even originally talking about that. Sorry it doesn't work for you, doesn't mean the entire thing is bad. Also, no offence I am 100% sure I could easily get it to work fine. However, I know a lot about computers compared to most.

Also, just to be a little frank, no OS is perfect, that is what you need to realize yourself.

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I've tried the Windows 8 previews, right up until the Developer edition. I know, I know, glitches, bugs, unfinished, etc., but I ignored all of the obvious bugs and looked at the underlying system objectively. What I saw, I liked, and at one point I've even used the Developer Edition almost exclusively for a while because I liked it despite some of the minor glitches and odd things. Eventually though, it fell out of favor with me because of how tedious is now was to open up simple things like Computer and Control Panel and also to configure devices etc. I prefer Win 7's streamlined Start Menu version.

My ideal Win 8/9 would be: bring back the Win7-style start menu, keep Metro and dumb it down for the PC, having it only as a place to organize files off the desktop, let me choose between starting up in Metro and starting up on Desktop, and get rid of or revamp the "Ribbons", and I will be a happy camper.

Edited by AlternNocturn

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I've tried the Windows 8 previews, right up until the Developer edition. I know, I know, glitches, bugs, unfinished, etc., but I ignored all of the obvious bugs and looked at the underlying system objectively. What I saw, I liked, and at one point I've even used the Developer Edition almost exclusively for a while because I liked it despite some of the minor glitches and odd things. Eventually though, it fell out of favor with me because of how tedious is now was to open up simple things like Computer and Control Panel and also to configure devices etc. I prefer Win 7's streamlined Start Menu version.

That is going to be fixed with the new update coming out. Back to the old start menu if you like :3. Also you could have fixed that issue even before this update with stardocks program called start8.

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Bad design decision or not, as I stated before, wasn't even originally talking about that. Sorry it doesn't work for you, doesn't mean the entire thing is bad. Also, no offence I am 100% sure I could easily get it to work fine. However, I know a lot about computers compared to most.

Also, just to be a little frank, no OS is perfect, that is what you need to realize yourself.

I want you to go to a forum about the technical aspects of computers and count the positive Windows 8 posts and the negative ones. When I did this just a few months back, I reach 48 negative threads and two positive ones. Your opinion on the operating system is very clearly in the minority.

Also, please clarify at which point I said that any OS is perfect.

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I want you to go to a forum about the technical aspects of computers and count the positive Windows 8 posts and the negative ones. When I did this just a few months back, I reach 48 negative threads and two positive ones. Your opinion on the operating system is very clearly in the minority.

Also, please clarify at which point I said that any OS is perfect.

If you have been reading what I have said, you would know I said windows 8 doesn't deserve the negativity it gets. I really do not know why you are arguing with me.

If you also go through all those negative posts you will find 80 - 90% of those posts are either lies or are about the metro interface. I have read plenty of arguments about windows 8 and the only legitimate argument people have is about the interface, which mind you is going to be fixed soon anyway. It's been tested that the OS performs better then all past versions. Just because the world has negative things to say about it, doesn't mean the OS is bad, it just means people do not know the facts and don't care to look them up.

Go ahead and continue to argue about this. I am just point out the FACTS. Not opinion, FACTS. It is a fact, it performs better then windows 7. It is a fact it's security is better then windows 7. It's been tested plenty of times. You are the one who started this argument, not me.

I do not go by peoples opinions, I go by the facts, end of story. So all the negative posts in the world means nothing. Just means people are ignorant.

Nearly the whole world once thought the earth was flat, didn't make it true.

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If you have been reading what I have said, you would know I said windows 8 doesn't deserve the negativity it gets. I really do not know why you are arguing with me.

If you also go through all those negative posts you will find 80 - 90% of those posts are either lies or are about the metro interface. I have read plenty of arguments about windows 8 and the only legitimate argument people have is about the interface, which mind you is going to be fixed soon anyway. It's been tested that the OS performs better then all past versions. Just because the world has negative things to say about it, doesn't mean the OS is bad, it just means people do not know the facts and don't care to look them up.

Go ahead and continue to argue about this. I am just point out the FACTS. Not opinion, FACTS. It is a fact, it performs better then windows 7. It is a fact it's security is better then windows 7. It's been tested plenty of times. You are the one who started this argument, not me.

I do not go by peoples opinions, I go by the facts, end of story.

First off, you go by your own opinion, not facts. Don't try and say otherwise, you convince nobody but yourself.

The fact is that most people don't like the Metro UI, and the fact is that the Metro UI is the only major feature it adds. Yes, it has marginally better safety than Windows 7, and yes, it boots faster than Windows 7 thanks to their "core hibernation" feature. The fact that Microsoft take criticism well enough to actually give the option to remove Metro is a thing that reflects well on them, but the fact that they didn't listen to people who were complaining already during the testing is a very bad thing. The operating system gets included on every new laptop and prebuilt desktop, and I have yet to speak to anyone IRL who liked it enough to decline my offer to install Windows 7 for them instead. The same thing goes on forums and discussion boards, with overwhelming negativity to Windows 8. Those are the facts. It's a good thing they're returning the start menu, but it's too late to change the fact that it was a flop now, as Windows 8 has EARNED the negativity it's been given, contrary to your belief.

Also, a bit of advice: If you write your posts up in an editor like Word or LibreOffice, they can help you out with your grammar and spelling, which goes a long way towards making your posts look more respectable.

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First off, you go by your own opinion, not facts. Don't try and say otherwise, you convince nobody but yourself.

The fact is that most people don't like the Metro UI, and the fact is that the Metro UI is the only major feature it adds. Yes, it has marginally better safety than Windows 7, and yes, it boots faster than Windows 7 thanks to their "core hibernation" feature. The fact that Microsoft take criticism well enough to actually give the option to remove Metro is a thing that reflects well on them, but the fact that they didn't listen to people who were complaining already during the testing is a very bad thing. The operating system gets included on every new laptop and prebuilt desktop, and I have yet to speak to anyone IRL who liked it enough to decline my offer to install Windows 7 for them instead. The same thing goes on forums and discussion boards, with overwhelming negativity to Windows 8. Those are the facts. It's a good thing they're returning the start menu, but it's too late to change the fact that it was a flop now, as Windows 8 has EARNED the negativity it's been given, contrary to your belief.

Also, a bit of advice: If you write your posts up in an editor like Word or LibreOffice, they can help you out with your grammar and spelling, which goes a long way towards making your posts look more respectable.

First of all, my grammar and spelling isn't THAT bad for you to need to comment on it. Anyone who tends to comment on that type of thing to me, is a troll who only likes to argue about stupid crap. Which so far seems to be the case. I am not an English teacher. Also, keep in mind not EVERYONE started with English. Respectable? I am sorry, but you lost all of it simply by the way you argue about dumb crap like this.

Also, you entirely agreed with me, you said the same damn thing I just said. Yes, it's a damn fact everyone hates Windows 8. Great! We all know that, and that is exactly what I said. Sure you are right, that Microsoft didn't act quickly enough, but that doesn't change the fact the OS is still good despite what you say. Also what I mean by good is it works. It does what is intended. It performs better then past versions. You are arguing with me for no reason at all! Grow the hell up.

Really what needs to be done is a mod needs to lock this topic. All the ignorant people in the world will gather here.

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Spelling and grammar mistakes are not worth getting upset over guys.

Also, OS bashing threads suck, closing.

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