Jump to content

0.21 update details


kahlzun

Recommended Posts

OK, i've been seeing a lot of people comment about the upcoming release. I was just wondering what information has been confirmed to be in it, ie: new releases etc. Here's what I have:

New craters on the Mun

Pod torque will be lost

SAS is improved

save file compatability broken

Anything I've missed?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nope, pod torque will be gone:

I’ve been working on new SAS / ASAS behavior for the last week. We’re aiming to reduce or eliminate the oscillations that happen in the current system. We’re also removing the automatic torque from command pods and replacing it with a reaction wheel system. The new reaction wheels will actually require power to operate.

Source

Torque will come from reaction wheels, the pods won't provide torque anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nope, pod torque will be gone:

Source

Torque will come from reaction wheels, the pods won't provide torque anymore.

I interpret that as the reaction wheels being a part of the pod and not a new independent "part" nor are they added to the SAS. The pods will just need power now in order to be able to use the reaction wheels. aka pod torque.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That sort of counter logical. A reaction wheel is a system of gyros that allows to rotate in space (normally you need one in the X, Y and Z axis, but I doubt the developpers will add this to the game for everyone's sanity. It would be sort of dumb to say "well pods have torque but you can't use it unless you stick that thing under and it will use electricity to make the pod's torque work". Like why build in a torque system in a pod is it can't use it? I'm pretty sure if you want to add torque you'll have to add torque wheels and they will provide torque using electricity.

Completely misread that, sorry. It's late at night and I'm tired.

Well I doubt so, I think the SAS and ASAS parts will simply be replaced. Saying "we're adding a reaction wheel system that will use electricity" seems illogical if you're not putting it in new part. He could simply have said "well no pods use electricity to provide torque".

EDIT: "We're also removing automatic torque from command pods" also seems to indicate that pods won't provide it anymore. Especially when he precises what it's being replaced with.

Edited by stupid_chris
I'm dumb
Link to comment
Share on other sites

From the look of C7's video from a while back, torque is still there. Skip to half way.

Pods and cores must have wheels, or a multi-axis gyro inside them. But it is a little unrealistic the way they let you turn it from anywhere.

It should turn where the torque source is, not the centre of mass.

You would have to add reaction wheels to all craft, like you do with RCS, putting them right over the centre of mass for effectiveness.

But in that dev build at least, they aren't doing that.

Perhaps they thought it'd be too annoying.

Edited by Tw1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

From the look of C7's video from a while back, torque is still there. Skip to half way.

-snip-

Pods and cores must have wheels, or a multi-axis gyro inside them. But it is a little unrealistic the way they let you turn it from anywhere.

I saw it, but the icons lead me to think there are new parts.

I guess we'll see when the update comes out. He said it himself in the video, that was still in development at the time and it was a while ago (about a month I think), it might have completely changed since then.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder if reaction wheels will be more effective if placed at the center of mass. Hmmm. That'll make for an interesting experiment. :D

That would be the opposite actually. The further away it is, the less force you need to spin something around. The only analogue I can find is with a wrench. The longer the wrench, the less force you have to apply to it at the edge to turn your bolt.

And I doubt it would. I think they'll just let it apply a constant force. I don't particularly want to calculate my CoM each time to be sure it does cross my control wheels.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Removing "Automatic" torque. Now it requires electricity.

I could be wrong. That's just how I interpret it. Another way to interpret it would be that the SAS now has the torque and the electricity requirement. But I heard in an interview that we aren't getting any new parts so... unless something changes, the reaction wheel torque is either still a part of the pod or is now a part of the SAS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That would be the opposite actually. The further away it is, the less force you need to spin something around.

Actually, it would be the opposite, because the ship turns on the axis of the reaction wheel IRL. Placing it away would lead to uneven rotation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, it would be the opposite, because the ship turns on the axis of the reaction wheel IRL. Placing it away would lead to uneven rotation.

Uneven rotation yes, but a wheel further away would produce torque more easily. The question wasn't about it being viable, it was about what would be the strongest.

EDIT:

Removing "Automatic" torque. Now it requires electricity.

I could be wrong. That's just how I interpret it. Another way to interpret it would be that the SAS now has the torque and the electricity requirement. But I heard in an interview that we aren't getting any new parts so... unless something changes, the reaction wheel torque is either still a part of the pod or is now a part of the SAS.

No new parts?

xyu1Fdrh.jpg

Look closely at that image. Smells like a new command probe to me! Looks a lot like the KSPX hecs.

However, the I wouldn't be surprised that the SAS parts will now serve as control wheels, I'm actually expecting it to be this way as they used to provide torque in much earlier versions.

Edited by stupid_chris
No double posting for me tonight.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Uneven rotation yes, but a wheel further away would produce torque more easily. The question wasn't about it being viable, it was about what would be the strongest.

Ideally, a great big, bike wheel like thing, centred on the CoM would be best. The distance between the edge of the wheel and the centre of rotation is more important than distance from the centre of mass.

This is why I tend to put two rings on my stations, otherwise, IRL, they'd spin in the opposite direction to the ring, if there weren't some other counterweights rotating the other way.

j8ckO79.png

Also, with multiple rotation wheels that aren't lined up I imagine you'd get gyroscopic effects like those that prevent a dual rotor helicopter from spinning.

USMC_CH-46.jpg

Edited by Tw1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ideally, a great big, bike wheel like thing, centred on the CoM would be best.

This is why I tend to put two rings on my stations, otherwise, IRL, they'd spin in the opposite direction to the ring, if there weren't some other counterweights rotating the other way.

-snip-

That's a rather large craft too. All I'm saying is that a wheel further out from the CoM would provide much more torque than closer in. Not a set of X, Y and Z wheels, just one wheel on one axis. Would it be useful IRL? Not at all, the chances the wheel happens to be in the right plane of rotation for it to work properly are ridiculously slim, having them all at the center provides much more precision. But It could give a much greater amount of angular moment to the craft. Just not useful angular moment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The astronaut center

What's that gonna be? Just a faccility where you can see your Kerbals or really that you can gonna train them and such?

Probably where you can hire astronauts for their missions. We won't be able to train them yet, it will just be used along with the crew management system for now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see the reaction wheels being different parts. Torque is one of the basic mechanics in the game and having that be a different part, which thus needs to be on 99% of all designs, is just inefficient. ASAS will be incorporated in pods and probes and torque will now require electricity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Reaction wheels are separate modules, as in a separate block of code you can add to any part .cfg file.

Pods will still have a reaction wheel included and you'll be able to add a separate part with a more powerful reaction wheel.

So it'll kind of be like it is now, where command pods provide some torque and you can add SAS parts to provide additional torque. The difference is the new SAS goodness shown in C7's video and that reaction wheels require electricity to work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's a rather large craft too. All I'm saying is that a wheel further out from the CoM would provide much more torque than closer in. Not a set of X, Y and Z wheels, just one wheel on one axis. Would it be useful IRL? Not at all, the chances the wheel happens to be in the right plane of rotation for it to work properly are ridiculously slim, having them all at the center provides much more precision. But It could give a much greater amount of angular moment to the craft. Just not useful angular moment.

It doesn't matter where a wheel is mounted. Torque is Torque. If you place it on a 20m arm or at the C of G, it still produces exactly the same amount of Torque for the power used.

You're thinking force by distance being Torque, which isn't the case here. Reaction wheels just make outright Torque, so the placement means nothing, aside from which axis is effected.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...