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All craft from my Constellation mission vid


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@Neolegends - That's pretty damn decent. I was a fan of the way Katateochi clipped his VTOL engines into one of the tanks to hide them really well, yours sort of stick out a bit more obviously.

In my own testing I can suggest the LF-A30 engines from I believe KW Rocketry. Actually it might be from NovaPunch. In any case it has 285 thrust with a 375/380 ISP in air/vacuum, which is insanely good for the pile of power the engine provides. 4 of those, 2 on each end of a VTOL craft can lift almost anything. Lot better than the 120 thrust 290 ISP crappy radial stock engines you've got there.

I REALLY love the way you used tricouplers. I think I'm gonna have to play with them a bit more in my designs. I know that Katateochi used NovaPunch adapter plates, which are the same thing, except much more compact. The stock couplers look really good though.

For landing on Duna, those engines are enough as the TWR already is somewhere around 6. They only burn for something like 15s, but that's enough to slow you down enough to prevent the parachutes from getting ripped off. I actually only used half of the fuel available in those little newly added (0.21) tanks. Other than that, I'm not a fan (I actually am, but it kinda annoys me) of such big mod packs that add ALOT of parts to the game as most parts just double over time (like there's multiple engines which all have similar ISP, thrust and weight) and mess up the known part layout you got used to. :D (I do have NovaPunch installed, but I'm kinda unsure about B9 Aerospace and KW Rocketry)

I really gotta make a website at some point that allows you to customize your part packs using checkboxes and custom .zip generation. If anyone could point me to a free ASP.NET hoster, please. :D

For the ship design, I actually used quadcouplers, you just can't see it in the screenshots. My biggest problem with getting the whole package as tight and compact as possible was that you can't bend the hinges from DR in the editor. If I could, would've gotten the rover into a much better position than it is now. I'm still amazed at how kateochi got his ship so tightly packaged. :)

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Ah. I see what you mean. I only usually see thrust to weight to ISP ratios when I look at an engine, just as I only see mass to fuel storage when looking at tanks. Practicality or looks generally take a back seat to efficiency with me. Something I need to work on changing.

I use far, far too many mods. With kw, np, and b9 installed (along with many others) I have something like 8-10 pages of parts on each tab. It gets a little silly. But I love all the parts, though I don't find myself using np very much.

Recently I put together a grand tour ship combining most of the mods I have installed, and I realized when it made its first hop to the mun how bad the lag had gotten. I think the biggest problem is when you run tons of plugins, especially Mechjeb. I get these huge lag spikes in game that sort of drop frames for half a second every 10 seconds or so. I'm also running this on a good quad core with a GTX 690 so I doubt it's my computer as much as congesting the game engine with piles of stuff.

So I decided tonight to start over, and rebuild my grand tour ship with as few parts and mods as possible. I'm still using Kethane, cause I love the logistics of it, and it saves time. Also using the procedural fairings mod, and then KAS and TAC fuel balancer and that's it.

I think it'll be fun for once flying a serious mission without Mechjeb or any other assistance using 95% stock parts. Interestingly, stock designs very often have a way of looking more elegant than mod heavy ones.

Most of my interplanetary stuff is all Swiss Army knife type craft that I throw attachments on for specific things, or rather, carry everything I could possibly need out there, and then decide what I wanna do :P

Anyway my whole point is less mods is probably better overall. I'm really on the fence about the b9 cockpit though - the one with the offset node and the cab with all the windows. I absolutely love using it - especially IVA docking with it, but it's part of the massive pack, and looks out of place on stock craft :(

I'm also a fan of how he packed his craft so tightly together. Guess that's what happens when you design a ship for one specific mission rather than cobble it together out of an existing design. Even his grand tour vessel was tightly packed.

@Katateochi - if you have something like raw footage of the VAB design stages of your crafts, I'd love to see stuff like that. Great for ideas and I'd be interested in knowing exactly how long you spent designing and building that whole mission. I know you stated that the one landing you did took you a week to master (which was damn impressive by the way... Must have been painful at 10 FPS). The design of that setup must have taken at least close to that.

Edited by Immashift
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I use far, far too many mods. With kw, np, and b9 installed (along with many others) I have something like 8-10 pages of parts on each tab. It gets a little silly. But I love all the parts, though I don't find myself using np very much.

Recently I put together a grand tour ship combining most of the mods I have installed, and I realized when it made its first hop to the mun how bad the lag had gotten. I think the biggest problem is when you run tons of plugins, especially Mechjeb. I get these huge lag spikes in game that sort of drop frames for half a second every 10 seconds or so. I'm also running this on a good quad core with a GTX 690 so I doubt it's my computer as much as congesting the game engine with piles of stuff.

That is exactly what annoys me, having to click through tons of part pages and finding the exact right part out of houndreds.

(I'm assuming you have little to no knowledge in programming, I apologize if I'm wrong :D)

Those laggs are a common problem in KSP, it's not because of the mods, it's because how KSP and Unity process the physics: It's not threaded / computed parallely but processed part by part, one by one. That is what makes KSP lagg when you go over ~150 parts. (KSP will be "blocked" until the calculations are done, that's what you experience as laggs)

Parallelizing the calculations would remove the laggs, but that won't be possible in the near future as it's not safe to use Unity's API in parallel, so the devs would have to write LOTS of code to bypass the problems. This is a common topic over in the Unity developers community. Sadly, the Unity devs are relatively silent about that topic. :/


I redid my cargo flight:

The vehicle standing by for launch on the KSC:

KSP-2013-07-28-15-32-41-89.png

Burning my way to Duna:

KSP-2013-07-28-15-49-37-39.png

Aerobraking in Duna's athmospehere, burning a little:

KSP-2013-07-28-16-07-37-14.png

Dunabase management:

The finished base:

KSP-2013-07-28-17-04-31-49.png

Edited by NeoLegends
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Are you using the parts from the part bundle I provided? It's odd that Kopernicus doesn't work but the others do, they are more complex than Kopernicus.

Hey

I know, that's really odd. I will answer on your questions:

Yes, I use your craft bundle. I downloaded and tested 2 packs (old & new mechjeb edition), from KSP Store I downloaded .20.2 and .21.1. First I unpack clear KSP and on this clear game I copied and overwrite files from bundle (MJ1.9.5). I was very hapy, because can play on this amazing ships from nasa presentation where people in future can get the mars ground. First run game, select orion, set on launch pad -> start -> worked -> next ship. All ship I tested on this algoritm. When I come to kopernicus craft and one big WHAT??? (screen on previous post). I solved problem with kopernicus (works good on bundle with new MJ 2.0.9). But Cargo.craft still does not work. Tomorrow or the next day I'll record a video where You can see this problem. I can't edit ship from the game - notepad only.

My question:

Can you check your bundle, because I don't know what is. My mistakes or mistake in package or system -.-, but if B0bby and Xzabath have no problem ... I'm powerless.

Summation:

In cargo.craft parts are, I see profil of rocket, but can't add, remove and move parts from the rocket. When I load craft all buttons on top right are disactive. The only way to exit game is alt+f4 or task manager. I can move camera, zoom, up, down, rotate. In my opinion these parts "wait" for command pod, but in notepad I see used command pod: part = probeStackSmall.

People please help, Ludzie pomóżcie

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Sorry for the delay in replying guys (I've been crashing SSTOs in 21.1 and not getting very far with them).

This is so cool to have you guys taking aspects of my designs and then doing your own variations on it :)

@NeoLegends;

That's very cool, I like the way you've connected the modules to the lander and nice use of the tri couplers, that would make yours have less parts than my design I think (certainly compared to my hab lander!). In the cargo lander I just used girders from a girder pack and they are attached straight down the middle, which actually caused me some issues fitting the modules round it, so I really like the way your girder runs above everything. In the hab lander I used the stock strut parts and small cube thing to make the L-shaped mount that the ascent modules sits on, I think tri or quad adapters might be the way forward for that next time!

Is your rover's arm made of RTG's?! That's different! I also had to really weight my rover down, initially I just used a couple RCS tanks at the back, but then later I added the two command pods and then it was much more stable. Also I've used the large RTG's which I think where once part of NovaPunch but don't seem to exist any more, but I'm still using them as legacy parts.

Thanks for the vid of your rover assembly process, very nice to see it being done differently and as effectively. With your way of mounting the modules on the lander, could you pick them up again and re-attach them to the lander for a totally movable system? That would be epic!

@Immashift;

The engine that I used on both main landers and the little ascent lander was the little RMA-3 engine from NovaPunch. It has an ISP of 410 (in vac) and a thrust of 75 and its nice and compact. I think it's one of my most used the engines for landers, mounted on the stock radial attachment point thing. It's been changed in the new NovaPunch, same stats just different shape, not sure I like it as much as the previous style.

Ah, so you're taking the rover back with you, nice, but yeah your going to run foul of the docking doom. oh, wait...I've got a rover, little folding thing (see my Apollo vid) that uses DR joints to fold up, and (in another craft) I've been re-docking it to a lander and taking off again without issue. I think (not 100% sure) that the problem only happens when there are hinges in between the docking port and the core part of what ever your attaching. So if you had a docking port, or another KAS connector, attached directly the rovers root part or via parts that don't have hinges between them and the root part then I think it will be ok. My folding rover has a KAS connector a couple parts away from the root part, but without hinges in between and I can winch it up and put it in docked mode without horrific exploding.

I like your GT ship. Would definitely like to see the pics of that in action, do PM me when you post them and let me know (I'm crap at keeping track of what goes on on the forum!). I'd really recommend just doing pics rather than trying to vid the whole thing. That turned into more of a mission than the mission itself and took up a ridiculous amount of HD space!

I'm really not sure how my stuff ends up being so tightly packed, it really isn't a concious design goal that I set out with, if just kinda happens. I don't have any footage of the actual building or testing, that would be a very long vid!! The whole thing took a very long time, I actually started building the hab lander in 0.19, I was doing other missions then too, but in 0.20 it became the main focus. Building the cargo lander took a lot less time, thou it took prob around a week of mucking about to workout the KAS and docking port setup to get round the DR issues. For a long time I was just using the KAS magnets to connect to the modules but that was not reliable and would often break things. I actually did the whole mission once before the vid that I eventually made and that was before I'd got the KAS+docking port setup. That was just so much better and I'd made a few other changes so I scrapped that vid and started the whole mission a second time. And before that I did many many test runs on the Mun and a lot of testing just on the runway.

So, you both run with too many mods (I can relate) and want to cut the parts down eh? I might have something that may interest you (and I need testers for it!).

I've written a little program, its just a command line tool for now, but I hope to make a more user friendly interface for it at some point.

Basically you point it at 1 or more craft files in your KSP save dir and tell it to build a bundle (you can tell it do to other things too).

It reads the craft file and looks at all the parts you have installed and complies a zip containing just what is needed for the given craft. that's what I used to make the zips you can download for these craft.

for example;


mod_bundler.exe r:\games\KSP\saves\Katateochi\**\*Constellation* --bundle --include-craft --include-mod-CrewManifest --include-mod-Romfarer-plugins

You could tell it to look at all the craft you have and then it would build a zip that was tailor made for your current craft. You can get it to include stock parts or not (default is not to include stock parts) and include additional mods (ie crewmanifest), or just plugins from certain mods, that won't be reference by the craft files. It can also include the craft if you want.

It can also just be used to tell you what mods a craft uses or if a craft is missing parts. It has some limited support for legacy parts and plugins, the parts are not a problem, its the plugins, it can work some out, for example if you use the old mechjeb parts it will realise it needs the mumechlib.dll from Plugins but it can only do that if the name of the parts and plugins share a common word. With the new GameData structure its much easier.

Its still a WIP, but if you want the current version of it send me a PM and I'll give you a DL link and tell you how to use it. I'd really like to release it as a tool for the community and I need a few test users for it so that would be great.

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That is exactly what annoys me, having to click through tons of part pages and finding the exact right part out of houndreds.

(I'm assuming you have little to no knowledge in programming, I apologize if I'm wrong :D)

Those laggs are a common problem in KSP, it's not because of the mods, it's because how KSP and Unity process the physics: It's not threaded / computed parallely but processed part by part, one by one. That is what makes KSP lagg when you go over ~150 parts. (KSP will be "blocked" until the calculations are done, that's what you experience as laggs)

Parallelizing the calculations would remove the laggs, but that won't be possible in the near future as it's not safe to use Unity's API in parallel, so the devs would have to write LOTS of code to bypass the problems. This is a common topic over in the Unity developers community. Sadly, the Unity devs are relatively silent about that topic. :/

I'm a comp science major but only in my second year. I have no knowledge of the way Unity works no, you got that right :)

I thought it had to be parts chugging the engine and thus the game waits for part calculations or whatever to do its thing. So when I have 500 parts laying around (not even anything built with them, just loaded into the game) the engine just bogs down to the point where that lag spike every ten seconds lasts nearly a full second, making the game rather unplayable. Running 16 gigs of ram so it can't be the issue. It's definitely a processing problem.

The basic solution for me would be to get a better processor. I'm runnung a 2.4Ghz Phenom 9750. It's a great processor, but it's dated and nowhere near top of the line. Granted if Unity was more optimized my issue would dissolve completely, but until then....

One of the issues is it happens in editors too, which I thought was weird, since it's not calculating phsics... Then again, perhaps background flights and such still chug it. I don't have enough knowledge to do anything other than theorize, but thanks a lot for narrowing it down for me. I've always wondered what caused those spikes, as a stock install plays more or less perfectly for me. Now I know :)

ANYWAY, my new, mostly stock grand tour design!

I MAY STILL use the heavily modded install GT design I showed here earlier. I love that design so much, but like I said I'm not sure how much the lag would irritate me, given how I'll have to dock that lander to it a billion times over the course of the grand tour. I burned out to the mun as a test with the GT rig, and I noticed a couple problems...

First off, the lander's drills bugged out and wouldn't mine anything, had to reposition them and ship the new lander over.... Then I realized that the lander can only take about 1k units of fuel back up to the IP stage in addition to what it spends to get back up there, which is really crappy.

The TWR of the craft is really low, and without quantum struts on it flips out at 3x physwarp, which is an issue when your burns are 15 min long. The final problem is that the entire craft doesn't quite carry enough ÃŽâ€v. I realized that problem when my mun injection burn used a quarter of my fuel.

It also had a power problem, which I realized trying to do a burn on the dark side of the mun. I had slapped a token RTG somewhere and assumed it was good enough..

This is .21.1 baby! Everything nom nom noms through power! God forbid I install IronCross and try a grand tour... death by breathing his own Co2 sounds like a poor way for Jeb to go.

Tylo (and LKO in one stage) capable lander, similar to the one Scott Manley used, cause I really liked how well his worked. One thing you can see with most of my designs, especially my landers, is that I HATE dropping bits of it during ascent. I'd rather bring the entire thing back up so I can leave it in orbit and use it again, rather than drop stages:

1iy.png

Interplanetary stage - I wanted a puller design with enough oomph to get between any two planets. Lander will sit in the back, and there will be four small probes connected to that hub I plan on dropping at various places:

j8ka.png

Now to refuel the lander and connect it all together and begin my voyage :D

ALSO, Katateochi - If you want testers for that command line tool feel free to PM me anything you want.

@NeoLegends - So you're iffy on the B9 pack hmm? Let me attempt to sell it to you with this cockpit's IVA :D

My docking-fu is a little rusty and out of practice here, but it's still a pretty view:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHaruLzNCY8

Edited by Immashift
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Awesome!!!!! Would you mind doing a checklist for each ship/lander?

Do you mean a specific list for each craft separately? There is a full list for all the craft together in the first post and you can download a bundle containing everything you need.

Hey

I know, that's really odd. I will answer on your questions:

Yes, I use your craft bundle. I downloaded and tested 2 packs (old & new mechjeb edition), from KSP Store I downloaded .20.2 and .21.1. First I unpack clear KSP and on this clear game I copied and overwrite files from bundle (MJ1.9.5). I was very hapy, because can play on this amazing ships from nasa presentation where people in future can get the mars ground. First run game, select orion, set on launch pad -> start -> worked -> next ship. All ship I tested on this algoritm. When I come to kopernicus craft and one big WHAT??? (screen on previous post). I solved problem with kopernicus (works good on bundle with new MJ 2.0.9). But Cargo.craft still does not work. Tomorrow or the next day I'll record a video where You can see this problem. I can't edit ship from the game - notepad only.

My question:

Can you check your bundle, because I don't know what is. My mistakes or mistake in package or system -.-, but if B0bby and Xzabath have no problem ... I'm powerless.

Summation:

In cargo.craft parts are, I see profil of rocket, but can't add, remove and move parts from the rocket. When I load craft all buttons on top right are disactive. The only way to exit game is alt+f4 or task manager. I can move camera, zoom, up, down, rotate. In my opinion these parts "wait" for command pod, but in notepad I see used command pod: part = probeStackSmall.

People please help, Ludzie pomóżcie

I wasn't sure if they'd work in 21.1 and I've finally got round to trying it out. Sadly I get the exact same issue you've had when loading any of the craft in 21.1, the VAB just freezes and you can't do anything except hit alt-f4.

I have also re-tested them all in a completely fresh install of 20.2, and everything worked just fine. I just got a fresh copy of 20.2 and un-packed it, then into it I put the Parts and Plugins folder from my zip and then I opened the GameData file and copied the contents of the GameData folder from the zip. The only thing I did not copy was the Squad folder from the zip, as that only has a couple resource files (it shouldn't really be in the zip). So everything from the zip except the Squad folder in GameData. Then I started the game, made a new save and once I was in the VAB I then alt-tabbed out and copied the craft into the VAB folder of the newly created save. All the craft worked fine without the VAB freeze that you are getting.

The odd thing is, the freeze that I got when trying them in 21.1 looks just like the one you have in that pic you posted from 20.2. The notable thing is that all the icons from the staging list are off to one side slightly and not in staging, like they were disconnected parts. That exact same thing happens in 21.1 for all the craft. What's odd is that other craft I've made in 20.2 work just fine in 21.1 so I'm a bit puzzled.

I'm going to keep investigating this cos I want these craft working in 21.1 without having to build them from scratch again! I'll let you know if I find a solution.

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@NeoLegends;

That's very cool, I like the way you've connected the modules to the lander and nice use of the tri couplers, that would make yours have less parts than my design I think (certainly compared to my hab lander!). In the cargo lander I just used girders from a girder pack and they are attached straight down the middle, which actually caused me some issues fitting the modules round it, so I really like the way your girder runs above everything. In the hab lander I used the stock strut parts and small cube thing to make the L-shaped mount that the ascent modules sits on, I think tri or quad adapters might be the way forward for that next time!

Is your rover's arm made of RTG's?! That's different! I also had to really weight my rover down, initially I just used a couple RCS tanks at the back, but then later I added the two command pods and then it was much more stable. Also I've used the large RTG's which I think where once part of NovaPunch but don't seem to exist any more, but I'm still using them as legacy parts.

Thanks for the vid of your rover assembly process, very nice to see it being done differently and as effectively. With your way of mounting the modules on the lander, could you pick them up again and re-attach them to the lander for a totally movable system? That would be epic!

[...]

So, you both run with too many mods (I can relate) and want to cut the parts down eh? I might have something that may interest you (and I need testers for it!).

I've written a little program, its just a command line tool for now, but I hope to make a more user friendly interface for it at some point.

Basically you point it at 1 or more craft files in your KSP save dir and tell it to build a bundle (you can tell it do to other things too).

It reads the craft file and looks at all the parts you have installed and complies a zip containing just what is needed for the given craft. that's what I used to make the zips you can download for these craft.

for example;


mod_bundler.exe r:\games\KSP\saves\Katateochi\**\*Constellation* --bundle --include-craft --include-mod-CrewManifest --include-mod-Romfarer-plugins

You could tell it to look at all the craft you have and then it would build a zip that was tailor made for your current craft. You can get it to include stock parts or not (default is not to include stock parts) and include additional mods (ie crewmanifest), or just plugins from certain mods, that won't be reference by the craft files. It can also include the craft if you want.

It can also just be used to tell you what mods a craft uses or if a craft is missing parts. It has some limited support for legacy parts and plugins, the parts are not a problem, its the plugins, it can work some out, for example if you use the old mechjeb parts it will realise it needs the mumechlib.dll from Plugins but it can only do that if the name of the parts and plugins share a common word. With the new GameData structure its much easier.

Its still a WIP, but if you want the current version of it send me a PM and I'll give you a DL link and tell you how to use it. I'd really like to release it as a tool for the community and I need a few test users for it so that would be great.

I actually had real problems getting my crafts around the girder in the middle, or getting the girder out of the way before 0.21, but those quad-couplers just work wonderful, they bring that U-shape into your craft with only three parts.

That reusable design is totally what I'm aiming for, however those engines do not have enough fuel for an actual takeoff, (TWR of 9, but only 15s burning time) so I'd have to mount the modules somewhere else to take them with me. At some point, I'd also consider an entire redesign of the cargo & crew module, probably when I'll try landing that baby on Laythe. :cool:

Unfortunately, I didn't add counterweights to my rover. (As you can see two times in the video where it just tips over and "lands" on the module) I really should've tried out my design before I was heading to Duna with it, but I didn't figure out any way to try out my craft without messing with the launcher part. The arm is not made of RTGs, instead it's a 1m steel beam with four RTGs attached. Admittedly, your idea of using RTGs is brilliant, it's gonna save up some parts and reduce the lagg a little (that's also why I used 1x1 plates to mount the docking ports for the modules on instead of multiple small girders). :) I'll give it a try as soon as I get my next mission launched.

@NeoLegends - So you're iffy on the B9 pack hmm? Let me attempt to sell it to you with this cockpit's IVA :D

My docking-fu is a little rusty and out of practice here, but it's still a pretty view:

Yeah, I already know that cockpit from Scott Manley's reusable space program... It's AWESOME. And I'm not directly iffy on B9 Aerospace, I just don't like having houndreds of parts in my KSP part list. If I uninstalled NovaPunch2, I'd install B9 for sure.


I'd really like to take a closer look at your packaging tool. What language is it written in? I think it'd be a really nice idea to put that features onto a website at some point.

Edited by NeoLegends
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I like your GT ship. Would definitely like to see the pics of that in action, do PM me when you post them and let me know (I'm crap at keeping track of what goes on on the forum!). I'd really recommend just doing pics rather than trying to vid the whole thing. That turned into more of a mission than the mission itself and took up a ridiculous amount of HD space!

Been taking screenshots all along, and will be making a thread for it eventually once complete, I'll definitely PM you. My design changed to a more stock-centric one, but the goal is still the same, and I may well take the other one along too.

For now, here's how not to do a Moho injection - through shear brute force I made orbit, probably shoulda paid attention to phase angle a bit more :/ and have around 2k liquid fuel left. Absolutely no idea if it's enough to land on Moho, but it's all I got. Took about 1k for the mun landing I think. We'll see soon :)

2isw.png

I think getting a Moho injection is somewhat like trying to find a place to park at the shopping mall while driving past it at mach 2.

EDIT: SUCCESS :D 100ish units of fuel left.

Edited by Immashift
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Watched your video and read the thread, DANG I'm impressed! Wish I had that kind of imagination!

Running 21.1 and downloaded your "zip" file (for latest MechJeb) which includes everything needed and ran into an issue or two.

1. ALL of the "parts" in the "PARTS" directory needed to have the "PARTS {}" edited onto the config files. (or at least I did so since they did not have it)

2. I CANNOT get the "DSL_Head" to show up in my parts listing! Even after adding the step above, still does not show up. (RESOLVED)

3. Successfully loaded all craft with the exception of the cargo ship because it requires the DSL_Head. (Part IS in my "parts" directory, just not loading into KSP)

Have not tested the plugins yet, although they do not appear to be causing an issue. Concern was that the supplied plugins were not "21.1" compatible, but I have not witnessed that yet. Since I was already running several of the latest used plugins, I only installed the ones I was missing. I'm thinking that some of the posts (above) may be compatibility issues.

UPDATE: I did follow through and discovered that since I was trying to avoid a conflict issue with potential incorrect plugins, (concerned that the zip file had "older" versions not compatible with 21.1) I did not install the Romfarer dll and that was keeping the "DSL_Head" part from being loaded. The DSL_Head issue is resolved.

BUT

Now what I'm dealing with is (again) all .craft files are loading now with the exception of the Cargo ship! What happens is the screen "freezes". I have a moveable mouse, but unable to click on anything, including exit, parts, ... The stack on the right side does not look correct either. So something still isn't correct. NO parts issues, (or rather it loads the ship and gives no part issue preventing it from loading), but after that, nothing. ANY help would be appreciated!

And this is the ship I was hoping to play with! ;.;

Again, cant' thank you enough for sharing this with us!

TBryson2

Edited by TBryson2
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Hey, hey, hey

Now, for me cargo works perfectly for .20.2 -> solved. I always copied craft to %gamedir%ships/vab. When I copied craft (cargo) to %gamedir%saves/%profile%/ships..... (my stupid mistake)

began to work. And now:

WoWo propably find problem for incompatible for .21.

1. to correct work we need Mech Jeb 2.0.9 -> 2.0.8 is incompatible

2. Cargo doesn't load properly because use incompatible version of Kethane for .21. Only Cargo.craft have inside parts from this mod. When I deleted (in .20.2) kethane parts -> saved -> and copied to .21 ship began work.

#katateochi if you can update the bundle (mods and crafts) for .21 I will be very happy, because IMO .21 looks better than .20 and have upgraded ASAS.

tip -> in .20 remove kethane parts save and only in .21 add back this parts because:

Warning: This is a CRAFT-BREAKING RELEASE. Crafts and save files with Kethane parts from previous versions are unlikely to work.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/23979-Kethane-Pack-0-1-3-Find-it-mine-it-burn-it!-%28project-has-a-new-home%29

the modpack will work I plan to add Constellation Lunar Lander (replica from nasa video) :D

This is 100% Kethane error

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@WoWo ah, glad you got it working in 20.2!

@everyone

I'm currently updating the craft to work in 21.1 and with updated mods (including the kethane one). Basically most parts worked fine with updated mods, just kethane had to go and be different, so I did a find and replace for part names in the craft file and now the cargo loads up just fine.

It's not as stable as it should be thou. The module wobbles around like a crazy thing during launch, so I'm doing a bit of open-craft strut surgery on them. Of Course I'm supposed to be at work right now, but...the rockets, they keep calling me.

So hopefully I should have a 21.1 compatible version for you all to DL by this evening.

Just out of curiosity I used the previous version of kethane in 21.1 and all kinda of things went weird, it wouldn't let me attach the drill to anything (just on a simple test craft) and then suddenly everything just slowed right down, even the sounds of selecting parts went weird. I think it was the kethane mod that caused odd issues when using my 20.2 part bundle in 21.1. So that should soon be fixed.

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Well, it's definitely the Kethane mod killing me! I loaded the latest (0.7.4) and anytime I try to load ANY ship it crashes to the desktop now.

I spent the time to update the TAC Fuel manager, Protractor, KAS, and the latest Kethane MOD. Hopefully someone will find an answer. I'll keep digging.

TBryson2

Edited by TBryson2
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0.21.1 Compatible Version Now Available!

I've now updated the craft to work in 21.1 and with the up-to-date versions of the mods it uses. Kethane was the only one that was problematic one, but a bit of craft file editing sorted it.

I've also replaced some of the parts like the BobCat SAS units with NovaPunch ones (as they are more up-to-date with the SAS changes). For some reason the attachment of the modules to the LV was much weaker than it used to be so some more struts had to be added. They lift of fine thou so long as you are really gentle with the throttle, don't go about 1/4 throttle initially and then slowly ease it up to 1/2, as the boosters come away increase to 2/3 and then gradually bring it up to almost full as you climb into the thinner atmo. Once the first stage has dropped away you can ram it to full throttle.

I've done basic tests with the craft, taken them all to LKO but didn't dock them and send them to Duna. Tested both hab and Cargo modules landing process and the cargo assembly process. Things seem to be working ok! The rover shakes a bit more than it used to, you might want to strut it some more. I also noticed that some of the craft might need to have more power added to them to compensate for the new requirement the control system has. I've added extra batteries to the Kopernicus escape pods, they might want some panels too but I didn't add them as the part count is already high. If you can handle more parts then add 'em.

I've not tested if they can still make it to Duna thou. They should I would think, but there have been some part changes, but nothing big. I will be running this mission again but as I've started my space program over again I still have to get sat-nets setup first. I'll continue to update these craft as I use them and would like to hear if you guys spot any issues with them in 21.1

Well, it's definitely the Kethane mod killing me! I loaded the latest (0.7.4) and anytime I try to load ANY ship it crashes to the desktop now.

I spent the time to update the TAC Fuel manager, Protractor, KAS, and the latest Kethane MOD. Hopefully someone will find an answer. I'll keep digging.

TBryson2

If the Kethane issue is plaguing your other craft and you want to update to the new version then what I did was to do a find and replace in a text editor (I use Vim, but notepad will do). If you search in the craft file for "MMI.K" and then look at the rest of the name that comes after it, IGNORING the long number, then find the updated part in the new kethane and look in its part.cfg to find what the new name is. Only thing to note is that in the part.cfg the name might have underscores, but in the craft the underscores need to be replaced with fullstops.

So for example in the current craft you might have; "MMI.K FuelTank - External_4293450386"

The new name in the part.cfg is "kethane_tankExternal"

So you need to do a find and replace for "MMI.K FuelTank - External" and replace all instances with "kethane.tankExternal"

if you don't mess with the long identifying number then everything should go ok.

Can all this be done with little to no actual in-game flight skill using MJ2, or should I start practicing in stock?

Some of it could be done with MJ I guess. I use MJ as an assistant, I don't ever let it go full auto, I pretty much only use the SURF function and its info about orbits. The ascent autoP will explode most of the craft, they have to be launched quite gently. You can prob do the rendezvous and docking with MJ and the transfers (I don't know tbh, never tried). It will land the craft and get them close, but I doubt that it could land the ascent module back inside the hab module for you.

I would really recommend practicing maneuvers like docking and targeted landing yourself, they take a bit of a knack to start with but its really satisfying when you get it and the game is way more rewarding than just using MJ.

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Thank you for your help and for taking the time to help "us" and share your project. I was able to get the cargo container to work, but ONLY after removing a lot of other parts and mods. I have 8 Gb of RAM and a screaming computer, but I guess KSP really has some limits! Too bad.

Anyway, All is well on my end. Issues have been resolved, although I will probably install the full MODs of the ones you included so I can learn how to use them.

Again, thanks for the assistance!

TB

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Katateochi,

just learned from the RemoteTech thread that you can set the flight computers for multiple ships as long as there are within the draw limit of each other. So, with careful planning, and figuring out correct throttle %s for both ships so their TWR are almost matching, you can have the Hab and Cargo modules launched at the same time. Though, if the ship that isnt in focus leaves that draw distance, the engines shut off, so it can be a little tricky. Using the lazor mod and increasing the distance would help out with this.

I did a test for them to both burn 1000m/s delta-v, and they drifted about 800m apart upon completing the burns.

lfFyyD6.jpg

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Katateochi,

just learned from the RemoteTech thread that you can set the flight computers for multiple ships as long as there are within the draw limit of each other. So, with careful planning, and figuring out correct throttle %s for both ships so their TWR are almost matching, you can have the Hab and Cargo modules launched at the same time. Though, if the ship that isnt in focus leaves that draw distance, the engines shut off, so it can be a little tricky. Using the lazor mod and increasing the distance would help out with this.

I did a test for them to both burn 1000m/s delta-v, and they drifted about 800m apart upon completing the burns.

*snip*

gracae that is awesome!!! I didn't know that, thanks for telling me, OMG the possibilities that opens up! Too cool! I really should RFTM sometimes!

I want to try and control a small fleet of tiny fighter craft with that!

Would you have the coordinates on duna where the surface is flat?

The coordinates I landed at are;

0, 7'22" North by 205, 10'58" West

That area is very flat and there is a large expanse of very flat land just over the ridge from there.

That was in 0.20.2 thou, I've not been to Duna yet in 21.1 so don't know how/if its changed.

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Can all this be done with little to no actual in-game flight skill using MJ2, or should I start practicing in stock?

Pretty easily in fact. Just watch his video again and set with MJ the maneuvers he does.

If you're really really new to the game I'd advise using MJ for what you don't think you can do, but don't use it as a crutch, or you'll never really learn. But watching it do something a couple times and then doing it yourself is how I learned.

@Katateochi - Definitely wish I could use that landing site... If there was any bloody kethane on Duna.... I swear I've done all the way up to 50 degrees of inclination scanning for kethane with my grand tour ship, and there wasn't a single deposit... I'm not sure whether I want to reset the deposit maps or not. This could make a Duna base sort of interesting if I have to haul fuel in from Ike.

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Congratulations on one of the most thought out and innovative KSP videos I have ever seen. The designs are beautifully complicated yet so atheistically pleasing.

I could never attempt such a feat at the moment due to my POS computer but your designs are inspirational.

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