[1.0.4] SteamGauges V1.7.2 - 27 July '15

[Trueborn]

If you're in career mode, the HUD isn't enabled until you research Electronics.

The button is now bound to Blizzy's toolbar mod, which should be included in the download. You'll want to make sure you have a 000_toolbar folder in your gamedata directory. You can then unlock and move the toolbar around. His thread detailing how it works is here. The toolbar position is stored in a separate file, even though the button position stuff is still in the SteamGauges config file. I'll have to take that out for the next release...

[Camacha]

I really love this mod, as it brings a lot of flavour to KSP. However, I have a couple of notes:

- As a graphically inclined designer, I am not very fond of the fonts used. I do love the way the gauges themselves look, but I think there could be some typographical improvements made.

- I have lost some gauges off screen a couple of times now, with no real way of getting them back other than deleting en reinstalling the mod. Is there an in-game way to do this?

- Would it be possible to get a nice clean airspeed indicator, just like in aircraft? I know the numbers are in the HUD, but those take a lot of direct attention to keep track of. A dial is much easier read from the corner of your eye. Airspeed is absolutely vital for safe flying.

Cheers!

[kiwiak]

Is there any need to have airspeed meter, if there is no wind implemented yet?

And if you mentioned new gauges, we coudl use some sensor panel - showing temperature, pressure etc from spacecraft sensors.

Edited December 20, 2013 by kiwiak

[Camacha]

Is there any need to have airspeed meter, if there is no wind implemented yet?

Yes, there is The lack of wind means that your surface speed is also your airspeed, but the comment about easy readability remains the same. It is not that the value is not currently available, it is just that it is hard to use in a meaningful manner.

During any flying, but especially during take-off and landing you will always keep an eye on your airspeed. The current implementation through the KSP GUI or SteamGauges HUD takes an awful amount of focus to read, which you need for other things in that situation. There is a reason even glass cockpits display analog style gauges and that is easy readability in intense situations.

It is just something I was looking for when doing IVA landings, as it is the one thing you learn to use as a real life pilot.

[Camacha]

And if you mentioned new gauges, we coudl use some sensor panel - showing temperature, pressure etc from spacecraft sensors.

Not the perfect work-around for everyone, but you can easily make those yourself with kOS and Sensor Reporter. Fully configurable too! I used to do that with the altimeter.

[kiwiak]

Not the perfect work-around for everyone, but you can easily make those yourself with kOS and Sensor Reporter. Fully configurable too! I used to do that with the altimeter.

Yes, and there is also graphotron.

[Camacha]

Yes, and there is also graphotron.

Yes, although I think kOS is a little more like an instrument you would see in a real craft - with readouts on a monitor. It kind of reminds me of the space shuttle displays.

[Trueborn]

I really love this mod, as it brings a lot of flavour to KSP. However, I have a couple of notes:

- As a graphically inclined designer, I am not very fond of the fonts used. I do love the way the gauges themselves look, but I think there could be some typographical improvements made.

- I have lost some gauges off screen a couple of times now, with no real way of getting them back other than deleting en reinstalling the mod. Is there an in-game way to do this?

- Would it be possible to get a nice clean airspeed indicator, just like in aircraft? I know the numbers are in the HUD, but those take a lot of direct attention to keep track of. A dial is much easier read from the corner of your eye. Airspeed is absolutely vital for safe flying.

Cheers!

If you have any font recommendations, I would be glad to hear them.

The gauges should clamp to the edges of the screen. I'll take another look at it though. Do you know which ones, specifically? And has anyone else had problems with disappearing gauges?

I'm thinking of building up a new air focused gauge with stuff like Mach number and AoA, maybe some intake stuff. I wasn't planning to include airspeed, partially because its already there (either on the HUD or Nav Ball), and also because it needs to go a lot higher than 200. While not quite as color coded, the HUD tape provides some of the "at-a-glance" feel. In real aircraft there is also a stall bar and Vne bar (generally hash marks) that show up on the tape. Unfortunately, as these are so unique to each vessel (and not really applicable to rockets at all) I haven't looked at implementing them. I can include ground speed in the air gauge, or possibly a side scrolling tape. Hmm, off to go look at pictures of SR-71 cockpits for inspiration...

I hadn't thought of a sensor panel. I'll think about it, but due to the wide variety of sensor configurations it might look a little goofy if say, only temperature were active? For now I'll say something like KOS is a better bet, but if anyone has good ideas for a layout I'm not totally opposed to the idea.

[kiwiak]

Wht about sound larms and annunciator?

Can i hope for something like this?

[Trueborn]

Oh, sorry kiwiak. It isn't at the top of my priority list. That being said, the GPWS certain isn't the same without Betty. Other than that, all I can really think of is a master warning/caution beep for the low lights or something. I'll keep it in mind for the future though.

[Camacha]

If you have any font recommendations, I would be glad to hear them.

I will come back to you on this one when I have some more spare time to look at it properly - and when I have had a chat with a buddy of mine who is a professional illustrator to see what we can come up with

The gauges should clamp to the edges of the screen. I'll take another look at it though. Do you know which ones, specifically?

It was the HUD. I nearly lost the altimeter once too, though that was still partially visible. I run in windowed mode, if that matters.

partially because its already there (either on the HUD or Nav Ball), and also because it needs to go a lot higher than 200.

I was specifically referring to a analog style gauge, as those are a lot easier to read at a glance. The 200 from the one in the picture is an example, I think in reality either a gauge with a selectable order or magnitude or one with some sort of logarithmic scale like the stock variometer would be pretty good - although I fear the latter might be of more limited use. Looking at the SR-71 it surprises me that it actually has a bog standard airspeed gauge with some scaling, along with some more exotic mach gauges.

The problem with the navball speed readout is that it takes (relatively) a lot of attention to read. Not ideal when you are trying to pay attention to nose attitude, speed, descent rate and where the ground is. The HUD ribbon is a little better, but suffers from the same problem of not being visually distinct enough to understand at a glance.

Although such a speed dial is probably of limited use in rockets, it is of great value in any plane. And I guess the variometer does the job for rockets, as going up vertically means that it is pretty much a speed gauge for that direction.

It could just be that I am still a bit too conditioned from my real life flying days and instructors ingraining the speed is life mantra Having no physical reminder of low speed like stick shudder also unnerves me a bit. Those things are so very fundamental.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Camacha

[Trueborn]

After doing a little looking at the SR-71-1 (flight manual), my guess is they actually used the digital readouts as their primary display. This was processed by the air data computer (such as it was) and displayed equivalent airspeed and mach, as well as some form of corrected altitude. The standard airspeed/mach indicator read calibrated values straight from the pito-static system. Looks like it read in hundreds of knots up to about 600, and read mach above ~.15 Part of the issue in KSP is that m/s is a terrible speed measurement for high speeds If I can get a good IAS formula out of the info in game I might make one in km/s. Speaking of which, does anyone know how to get impact pressure?

[diomedea]

Speaking of which, does anyone know how to get impact pressure?

Impact pressure = Total pressure - Static pressure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_pressure)

however, the above will just move the issue to "how to get Total pressure" ?

Therefore, I would use Dynamic pressure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_pressure), and in particular:

q = 1/2*ÃÂ*v2

meaning, dynamic pressure is directly proportional to air density (that is inverse exponential to altitude) and squared speed.

[Nereid]

Very nice, but for me the gauges are useless to some extent because they are to big. Scalling them down to about 20% or even smaller will give them the right size, but then they are barely readable. The radar altimeter is usable at 40% and still way to big. A round radar altimeter (as found in some aircraft) would be way more readable at smaller size.

So, is there any chance to get the gauges smaller without the loss of readability? Or an optional round radar altimeter?

[rottielover]

In my alt+f2 log I'm getting a ton of IO errors with steam gauges looking for a config file.

Thoughts?

[mrfox]

If I can get a good IAS formula out of the info in game I might make one in km/s.

Where

{TAS} is true airspeed

{EAS} is equivalent airspeed

{p0} is the air density at sea level in the International Standard Atmosphere (15°C and 1013.25 hectopascals) (density of 1.225 kg/m3)

{p} is the density of the air in which the aircraft is flying

Edited December 22, 2013 by mrfox

[blizzy78]

In my alt+f2 log I'm getting a ton of IO errors with steam gauges looking for a config file.

Obvious feedback: Please share that part of your log?

[rottielover]

Sure, is the Alt+f2 log the same as output_log.txt or is there somewhere else to grab a copy paste?

[blizzy78]

Sure, is the Alt+f2 log the same as output_log.txt or is there somewhere else to grab a copy paste?

Alt+F2 is the short version, output_log.txt is more detailed.

[Trueborn]

Thanks mrfox, though I think I finally got a CAS formula to work. Helps that I finally found the atmospheric density variable in KSP... That has also lead to a (possibly) more accurate method of calculating Mach as well. Now I just need to decide on layout and how I want to work with intake air.

rottielover, is it just the initial parsing of a bunch of values, or is it a consistent case of can't find config.xml? Even a screenshot of the log would be helpful. That being said, it should rebuild the config file with default values if it isn't there. Second question, what OS are you using? And finally, even with the spam, are all the gauges still working?

As for gauge sizes, I know they're a little on the large size. That's why the bezzels are removable, they're scalable, and you can make them transparent, and toggle them when you don't need one or another. The problem is, analog gauges are big. In real planes, they take up more room than the windscreen (well, for complex aircraft). All that being said, the radar altimeter is pretty big, and I may redesign it in a while. Possibly a round dial, or possibly a sliding scale (similar to Bucky's?) or something else entirely.

[rottielover]

Haven't been home yet to post the log. I'll try and answer.

It was same error over and over that config.xml (I think) wasn't found. All the gauges appeared to be working just fine, though I was using only orbital, radar alt, and node at the time. I'm on Windows 8.

The only reason I even noticed was I had just learned about the alt+f2 thing and was being curious. I promise I will post some output as soon as I can.

[rottielover]

Please ignore me. I found that I had parts of a dev release in with the stable release version. I use SyncToy to keep my KSP mods synced up between a laptop and desktop. I think that might be part of my issue.

[Trueborn]

No sweat. I'm just glad its working for you!

[Camacha]

All that being said, the radar altimeter is pretty big, and I may redesign it in a while. Possibly a round dial, or possibly a sliding scale (similar to Bucky's?) or something else entirely.

A round one would be pretty neat Maybe one that has one full rotation for the smaller numbers and going round the second time for larger numbers, a bit like a classic altitude dial. Of course, it would probably scale somewhat smoothly, not just clunk from one scale into another.

[lewisd]

If you're going to implement a new/different radar altimeter, I'd like to suggest that it use a proper linear or logarithmic scale, rather than jumping from one scale to another as the current one does.

I find it quite jarring to be landing, watching it slide down from 500 though 100 at a fairly constant rate, only to have it suddenly go 4 times faster between 100 and 50, and and 10 times faster between 50 and 10.

It's a useful gauge, no doubt about it, I don't think I'd be able to land manually without it, but I think it would be easier to use if it was less jumpy.