[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[NeoAcario]

I started new carrer, noticed that i can now get science from contracts which make sense (like flight testing components) without old land-click-return science, and started doing them. Then "explore planet ..." contrats, "transmit science data from ..." (which make satellites usefull) etc... I did no "manned" missions, and no missions with return&recovery. Just small cheap single-use probes. Now i still have few nodes to unlock and something like 50M credits. Enough to build something big with current interstellar prices i think....

Touche

I was planning the same thing, just haven't gotten there yet. As I said, I'm still in the Kerbin SOI. I like to 100% science (and get my warp on) before I venture out. I had sats in transit (and set up now), and money really is just a couple of clicks for 30k/60k/75k at a time... even in local space.

Seems like silly planning for the campaign system... that you can keep re-using the same ship.

~Steve

[BigD145]

Anyone know how long till this will update?

Some time in the future. /nod

[larsmaehlum]

If I were to start a game with the experimental build, can I be certain that the save will survive an upgrade when the full update is done, or should I wait?

I wanna do my next series with Interstellar as a part of it, but I'm really itching to get started

[JDCollie]

If I were to start a game with the experimental build, can I be certain that the save will survive an upgrade when the full update is done, or should I wait?

I wanna do my next series with Interstellar as a part of it, but I'm really itching to get started

Same! Starting a career mode game without Interstellar feels like going on a walk without my left leg, but I really want to begin

[krillin678]

I know this might seem a little off topic but is there going to be any changes to the resource He-3. I find it to be extremely difficult to find/mine this resource, to the point where I don't even consider using the antimatter initiated reactor as it is just to much work.

Also I know fractalUK is doing IRL things but I would love to have accurate info on the wiki, or a wiki, or a forum. Look I need hints people. Right now there are upgrades to parts that happen in the tree and those are not reflected accurately on the wiki. ex. Plasma engine upgrade unlocks now with the node for alcie drives, where the wiki says it is supposed to unlock with antimatter reactor node.

[Talavar]

My main concern with the mod isn't really price, Just simply where it is in the tech tree. It's my OPINION (Which means jack **** in reality as a lone kerbal pilot and Lets be clear on that because some people are getting pretty forceful with theirs You should be licking Wave's feet for even doing this for us, so we don't have to) That the parts should come after stock parts. The reason I say this is because the mod has a few game-breaking functions.. For instance, You park a science lab around jool, crank that sucker on, time warp and generate science. So as a rule, that part can be one of the first unlocked AFTER the stock tech tree is completed. Then you use this to generate the immense amount of science to unlock the rest of the parts. The Anti-matter fuel source could be sold at KSP to generate more funds to basically open sandbox mode for you because of the amount of money you recieve for it.. so it should be LAST in the tree.. Im thinking unlockable gameplay.. It's no fun to get everything all at once, and it always gives you something to shoot for. Whether or not Wave considers what I say, I myself am going to tweak the files myself along with unlockables for other mods that come AFTER the original tech tree and with a painful price. therefore, I continually have something to shoot for. I'm going to wait to see what happens with it, then go from there. The mod tree will include (when all are updated and ready for use with .24 if not already) Kethane (which will come before KSPI), Infernal robotics, KAS, KSPI, Extra-planetary launchpads, Then possibly a habitat mod. This will allow me to play through the game slowly building up my space agency then slowly start to hit sandbox-mode with basically unlimited cash in the end. Then I can go about populating other planets with habitats and machines with a purpose.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Talavar

[TechnicalK3rbal]

Some time in the future. /nod

Oh, that helps a lot.

[Tygroux]

My main concern with the mod isn't really price, Just simply where it is in the tech tree. It's my OPINION (Which means jack **** in reality as a lone kerbal pilot and Lets be clear on that because some people are getting pretty forceful with theirs You should be licking Wave's feet for even doing this for us, so we don't have to) That the parts should come after stock parts. The reason I say this is because the mod has a few game-breaking functions.. For instance, You park a science lab around jool, crank that sucker on, time warp and generate science. So as a rule, that part can be one of the first unlocked AFTER the stock tech tree is completed. Then you use this to generate the immense amount of science to unlock the rest of the parts. The Anti-matter fuel source could be sold at KSP to generate more funds to basically open sandbox mode for you because of the amount of money you recieve for it.. so it should be LAST in the tree.. Im thinking unlockable gameplay.. It's no fun to get everything all at once, and it always gives you something to shoot for. Whether or not Wave considers what I say, I myself am going to tweak the files myself along with unlockables for other mods that come AFTER the original tech tree and with a painful price. therefore, I continually have something to shoot for. I'm going to wait to see what happens with it, then go from there. The mod tree will include (when all are updated and ready for use with .24 if not already) Kethane (which will come before KSPI), Infernal robotics, KAS, KSPI, Extra-planetary launchpads, Then possibly a habitat mod. This will allow me to play through the game slowly building up my space agency then slowly start to hit sandbox-mode with basically unlimited cash in the end. Then I can go about populating other planets with habitats and machines with a purpose.

I think the short answer is "no, because we are not ("we" being both modders and squad, and the community in general) balancing for players that try to cheat the system."

Right now you can have infinite money and science with a bunch of SRB, a solar panel, an antenna and a thermometer.

Scott and others have proven a thousand times that it only takes 2 missions to get the totality of the Tech Tree.

And I would go as far as saying it's possible in 1 mission to someone who play the game the extremely non-fun way (but without cheats), using exploits.

So if someone wants to setup a science/AM farm and then timewarp a thousand year, let it be.

In general, if wants to use X exploits or use a method that doesn't imply playing Kerbal Space Program,then... Let them? If use the traditional way, having early AM farm and a science lab is a nice boost, but cost a heavy investment in money, time and skill.

Putting a science lab in jool orbit is not easy ask if you play with TAC and remote tech, accept non-bug/retardmoment related mission failures, and try to avoid kerbal deaths.

And AM is worth more in a single reactor than sold in funds to buy a thousands nukes. Unless you're whackjob in career mode.

And if you spend an insane amount of time and effort to get a giant AM farm to sell... back a few line above.

[WaveFunctionP]

Quick and dirty cost adjustment.

Reduced engine costs by 90%.

Increased reactor costs by 1000%

I'm not done yet, I'm working on having the cost scale by upgrades. I have no eta.

[Atrius129]

Quick and dirty cost adjustment.

Reduced engine costs by 90%.

Increased reactor costs by 1000%

I'm not done yet, I'm working on having the cost scale by upgrades. I have no eta.

I'm trying this out asap. I guess we actually have a reason for doing sundiver solar sat's now. Will have to work on getting the KOSMOS parts working for 0.24.

[Talavar]

I think the short answer is "no, because we are not ("we" being both modders and squad, and the community in general) balancing for players that try to cheat the system."

Right now you can have infinite money and science with a bunch of SRB, a solar panel, an antenna and a thermometer.

Scott and others have proven a thousand times that it only takes 2 missions to get the totality of the Tech Tree.

And I would go as far as saying it's possible in 1 mission to someone who play the game the extremely non-fun way (but without cheats), using exploits.

So if someone wants to setup a science/AM farm and then timewarp a thousand year, let it be.

In general, if wants to use X exploits or use a method that doesn't imply playing Kerbal Space Program,then... Let them? If use the traditional way, having early AM farm and a science lab is a nice boost, but cost a heavy investment in money, time and skill.

Putting a science lab in jool orbit is not easy ask if you play with TAC and remote tech, accept non-bug/retardmoment related mission failures, and try to avoid kerbal deaths.

And AM is worth more in a single reactor than sold in funds to buy a thousands nukes. Unless you're whackjob in career mode.

And if you spend an insane amount of time and effort to get a giant AM farm to sell... back a few line above.

I'm getting your point here. Cost being very restrictive to the point that it doesn't matter if you get it early anyway, because in reality, you won't be able to afford it anyway.. That works too I suppose.. lol .. My main concern is "is it going to be too easy to to do all of this stuff?" Believe me, I'm in no way trying to cheat the system.. my main concern is that it would be simply too accessible without the tweaked prices.. However, in wavefunctionP increasing a reactor cost 1000% makes me a bit happier.. heh

Edited July 24, 2014 by Talavar

[Northstar1989]

I agree with Wave that gameplay is what matters as long as it's vaguely compatible with science. I also think that the time and expense and skill involved in setting up a microwave power network should result in some pretty decent rewards. IMO, the rocket nozzle should probably cost approximately the same as a regular engine (pretend the nontrivial cost is in generating the magnetic confinement and in materials/electronics that can tolerate the magnetic flux and stray energetic particle). You'll still benefit from cost savings on boosters and fuel. If you're not relying on beamed power, you're still going to spend massively less on fuel tanks and boosters, but you're buying the crazy expensive reactors instead.

I need to make this VERY clear- BEAMED POWER DOES NOT REQUIRE MAGNETIC CONFINEMENT. Therefore, the cost of the nozzle is trivial.

Apparently, several of you missed this point when I made it before. Beamed Power systems reach a MAXIMUM temperature of around 2400-2500K. They increase fuel flow to increase thrust further. It's only reactors directly hooked to a fusion or antimatter reactor that would technically require magnetic confinement. Even if you run an antimatter reactor and then beam the power, the temperature in the Thermal Receiver still only reaches 2400-2500K, you just have a LOT of fuel-flow and very high thrust.

For higher ISP and temperatures, magnetic confinement in electrothermal propulsion systems could be used (a technology which I SUGGESTED, but is not currently in KSP Interstellar)- basically highly similar to plasma thrusters, but the internal mechanics resemble those of a Thermal Receiver more, and since it heats the propellant by different methods, the propellent is not as limited, and propellents like methane, ammonia, and water can be used as well as hydrogen...

Regards,

Northstar

[bonesbro]

I need to make this VERY clear- BEAMED POWER DOES NOT REQUIRE MAGNETIC CONFINEMENT. Therefore, the cost of the nozzle is trivial.

Apparently, several of you missed this point when I made it before. Beamed Power systems reach a MAXIMUM temperature of around 2400-2500K. They increase fuel flow to increase thrust further. It's only reactors directly hooked to a fusion or antimatter reactor that would technically require magnetic confinement. Even if you run an antimatter reactor and then beam the power, the temperature in the Thermal Receiver still only reaches 2400-2500K, you just have a LOT of fuel-flow and very high thrust.

For higher ISP and temperatures, magnetic confinement in electrothermal propulsion systems could be used (a technology which I SUGGESTED, but is not currently in KSP Interstellar)- basically highly similar to plasma thrusters, but the internal mechanics resemble those of a Thermal Receiver more, and since it heats the propellant by different methods, the propellent is not as limited, and propellents like methane, ammonia, and water can be used as well as hydrogen...

Regards,

Northstar

It does for the existing plasma thrusters. Which are the only way to get decent ISP on beamed power. Well, unless you use quantum vacuum thrusters, but those are actually just magic.

[Cychotha]

Just wanted to throw out a quick thanks to WaveFunctionP for letting me get some .24 KSPI action going even though the update dropped when Fractal_UK wasn't available. And of course to Fractal for creating a mod that I consider a "must have!"

[iueras]

Is there a specific problem that Wave's version fixes? I am using the stock 0.11 in 64 bit 0.24, and have been from the time the update hit. Is there something in it failing invisibly that I should move to Wave's version instead?

[CaptainKipard]

Are people free to use the precooler module in their own mods?

[bonesbro]

Is there a specific problem that Wave's version fixes? I am using the stock 0.11 in 64 bit 0.24, and have been from the time the update hit. Is there something in it failing invisibly that I should move to Wave's version instead?

There are a lot of "quality of life" issues fixed - much better tooltips, automatic throttling of received power to keep from incinerating little probes, a few bug fixes, etc. He's also balancing (increasing) part costs now that 0.24 is out and the costs suddenly matter.

[Cairan]

A lot of people have weighed in since my post with cost suggestions, but I think 3 main axis can be identified for the cost of parts in KSPi ...

1) Parts having similar functions and similar design should cost about the same as their stock counterparts.

For example, the methane engines or the aluminium rocket should cost about the same as their liquid fueled or solid fueled counterparts, with a little premium for the more advanced tech involved.

2) Cost should be a factor of the heat source rather than the heat sinks.

Radiators shouldn't cost a fortune, it's basically tubing with metal alloys fins. Same goes with the thermal rockets. The thermal jets are another story, since they involve a little more complexity than the stock parts, except there is now another comparable choice: the RAPIER engine. Both can switch fuel, except the thermal jets and thermal rockets are even more versatile in their usable reaction mass. So the thermal jets and rockets should be more expensive than the RAPIER, but not by orders of magnitudes.

The thermal receivers shouldn't be prohibitively expensive either, as I make my point further down... Generators need not be exceptionally expensive either, as it is basically the same as radiators... it's not out-of-this-world technology...

The reactors on the other end are what should be most costly, and with a very steep cost increase as the technology gets more evolved. A fission reactor can be built literally in Jeb's scrapyard (see Radioactive Boyscout ) A fusion reactor, we still haven't managed, and it's been 10 years down the road for the past 50 years... Antimatter reactors are even farther down the road, if ever.

So by making the fusion reactors, say 2 or 3 orders of magnitude more costly than the fission ones, and the antimatter reactors 2 or 3 orders of magnitude more expensive than the fusion ones, we'd have our desired technological speed bump as far as infrastructure goes. Relatively cheap fission reactors, bulky and not quite game breaking. More expensive fusion reactors, which would limit their widespread use in the beginning, but would eventually become the mainstream as funds get available. Antimatter reactors, you might purchase 2 or 3 of the larger ones in the whole Kerbal system if the parts are priced with an exponential scheme.

3) Theoretical science should be much more demanding

The antimatter collector, antimatter reactors and antimatter containment units and the Alcubiere drives should be a LOT more demanding as far as science points goes. IMHO the antimatter tech should be 5 times the science points they now require, and the Alcubiere drive should be in the 50000-100000 range... With contracts it is now much easier to generate science, so I think that having such a high limit would give those of us valuing gameplay and those of us wanting a degree of plausible realism a nice balance, requiring to put in place a science and resource collection infrastructure in the whole system before having the means to leave for the stars.

DISCLAIMER: Those are my opinions and do not reflect negatively in any way, shape or form on the comments of previous contributors nor of the mod's authors and experimental contributors.

[AndreyATGB]

Increasing the warp drive's science cost is irrelevant once the lab is available. All you need to do is time warp until it does its job and gives you however much science it costs.

[undercoveryankee]

Are people free to use the precooler module in their own mods?

The license ( https://github.com/FractalUK/KSPInterstellar/blob/master/FNPlugin/License.md ) permits you to distribute derivative works, so if you follow the terms about using a compatible license and giving credit, no question.

If you just put the module into your part config and depend on the original distribution of the plugin to be present, so the only thing your stuff has in common with Fractal's is the module name, I wouldn't even consider that a "derivative work" subject to the license requirements. I would still follow the license if possible unless I had the copyright holder's assurance that he didn't consider the license applicable, because some people would consider invoking a module to be a derivative work. (E.g. the Kethane license, which purports to limit third-party use to a specified list of "public" modules.)

[Der Kosmos]

Now that costs are a thing, it might be an idea to have new parts for the upgraded things, rather than have them be automatically replaced. The new versions would of course cost more. Or maybe the price of the obsolete versions would go down?

[undercoveryankee]

Increasing the warp drive's science cost is irrelevant once the lab is available. All you need to do is time warp until it does its job and gives you however much science it costs.

I still think the game is more fun if the science you get by actively running missions carries weight all the way to the end. Time warping for longer than an Eeloo transfer at a time shouldn't be the required or optimal way to proceed.

If I'm reading Cairan's point (3) right, I think we're in agreement that to finish the Interstellar tree, you should have to demonstrate mastery of planetary exploration. Here's how I would take a stab at balancing: Add up all of the science available from running stock or Interstellar experiments at all possible locations. Add a percentage margin for renewable science sources like labs, asteroids, and contracts, and subtract a percentage that gets spent on retrofitting upgrades to hardware. I would guess that if the whole KSPI tech tree cost about 110% of what you can get by running experiments, it would feel about right. The tricky part is that so many other mods are science sources, Custom Biomes being a big one. Might need a couple of versions of the tree so you can pick the one that feels right with the rest of your setup.

[undercoveryankee]

Now that costs are a thing, it might be an idea to have new parts for the upgraded things, rather than have them be automatically replaced. The new versions would of course cost more. Or maybe the price of the obsolete versions would go down?

Not a bad idea. On the other hand, I wouldn't want to give up retrofitting. Can you turn a part into a different part in flight?

[MrWizerd]

Now that costs are a thing, it might be an idea to have new parts for the upgraded things, rather than have them be automatically replaced. The new versions would of course cost more. Or maybe the price of the obsolete versions would go down?

This is interesting, though I think there needs to be a way to pay for the upgrade, like if the upgrade can not be made to cost monies, then it should be made to cost resources, like it needs x amount of this that and the other thing to account for the upgrades... this may require use of ore or metal, or something, or just x dollars worth of SOME material so that your paying some sort of cost within the confines of the games engine, having to buy a new part will mean replacing the whole ship and that is a pain.... I think there has to be a way to upgrade still but there be a cost of some sort involved.

[AndreyATGB]

I disagree with having to grind out every single experiment in the game. Collecting science at the moment is a pretty tedious thing to do, and in no way fun if you go to such extremes. Maybe a kind of alternate way to unlock the node like have a ship land and take off of 3-4 planets rewards you a few thousand science (assuming 50k warp). I'd much rather see big rewards for setting up a functional colony and sat network through MKS and RT2 respectively, though I really doubt Fractal wants to make this mod dependent on others to get its trademark feature.