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Warsoul

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Try to keep the textures blended in with the KSP stock parts :) But yeah they do look pretty nice :P

What do you mean ?

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The one you have textured looks like you just applied it everywhere there isnt any continuity it looks cool but doesnt make a whole lot a sense and doesnt look very much like an engine especially when you have textures on one part bleeding over onto another piece. Also the texture on the base seems to be heavily stretched. looks like you just placed a texture straight onto your UV's? I think thats what supervip means

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Looking at your models, you're doing pretty good so far, but you'r models seem to be a bit low-poly, make things a bit more smooth

such as this:

-removed-

This is a model I created a little while ago, and it is licensed under Compact Rocketry. If you make you'r models smooth

like the one above, and you take the textures and make them all continuous to one another, you'll have some top notch parts to play with :)

Edited by Mr.Desmond Tiny

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Mr. Tiny, Warsol in this case is correct. You models are far to generous on sides per cylinder. Smooth shading is a miraculous invention.

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Mr. Tiny, Warsol in this case is correct. You models are far to generous on sides per cylinder. Smooth shading is a miraculous invention.

I just noticed that !) i found the decimate function 2 dayz ago and today i learned the smooth function !)

I'm a industrial CAD and i never use that kind of trick for now because we never need that kind of stuff in CAD. But ty. Some of my model appear bugged with the smooth function others not. If i made the WSL 24 Series Engines (24 sides); it's only because i want to scale them to 5m and more later. More you scale up, more you need sides.. no ?

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If you can tell your thoughts on the basic principle of your engines, maybe I can help balance the things.

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If you can tell your thoughts on the basic principle of your engines, maybe I can help balance the things.

For sure ! I'm sorry; i am on heavy workload and i forgot to explain what i try to do. I apologize !

The 6/12/18/24 are the sames specs but with different mesh and textures quality. 6 sides mesh to 24 sides mesh. For bad computer to good computer.

The Basic engine : An engine for orbital operation with an low fuel consumption combined to an average energy consumption.

The Super engine : An engine for orbital operation with an medium fuel consumption combined to an high energy consumption. Gimbaled 3 to 5 degree for better turning rate.

The Boosted engine : An engine for lifting and landing operation with an medium fuel consumption combined to an huge energy consumption. Does almost nothing in space.

The Hyper engine : An engine for lifting operation with an high fuel consumption combined to an massive energy consumption. Does nothing in space. Can consumme O2. (Need to be implemented in 0.04)

5m 5x1m : The same thing but 3 to 5 times stronger.

For the Kryon engine; i need to set some kryogenised kerbals as propellant mixture with others.

Edited by Warsoul

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For sure ! I'm sorry; i am on heavy workload and i forgot to explain what i try to do. I apologize !

The 6/12/18/24 are the sames specs but with different mesh and textures quality. 6 sides mesh to 24 sides mesh. For bad computer to good computer.

The Basic engine : An engine for orbital operation with an low fuel consumption combined to an average energy consumption.

The Super engine : An engine for orbital operation with an medium fuel consumption combined to an high energy consumption. Gimbaled 3 to 5 degree for better turning rate.

The Boosted engine : An engine for lifting and landing operation with an medium fuel consumption combined to an huge energy consumption. Does almost nothing in space.

The Hyper engine : An engine for lifting operation with an high fuel consumption combined to an massive energy consumption. Does nothing in space. Can consumme O2. (Need to be implemented in 0.04)

5m 5x1m : The same thing but 3 to 5 times stronger.

For the Kryon engine; i need to set some kryogenised kerbals as propellant mixture with others.

Thanks for the information.

For the balancing thing, if the main goal is to make them more powerful and fuel efficient, then there's really no need to 'balance' it, just set the thrust and Isp values ridiculously high and make sure it doesn't collapse.

On the other hand, if the main goal is to make the engines work like realworld engines do, there're some approaches. First, max thrust should be set reasonably considering the size of nozzles and the physical/chemical limit of it. It means, smaller engines are normally not as powerful as those bigger ones are due to smaller nozzle size (which means that it can't redirect too much flame thus can't achieve a high fuel flow rate because of the underexpansion of nozzles). Also, engines that burn woods should have less power than those burn LH2/LO2/Hydrocarbon (xD).

And when it comes to the Isp, well, things are getting complex now. Various categories of engines have different characteristics, but any kind of engines do have a natural limit of Isp. See below.

800px-Specific-impulse-kk-20090105.png

The limit varies with engine type and mach number. Also, design and production process play much more important roles. That's just said, what if we use new type of engines, like those driven by electricity and have way higher Isp.

The main idea is to first work out the certain principle (i.e. how your engines are gonna work), then set the numbers while referring to useful information for given design.

FYI, O2/H2 burners do have higher Isp over HC burners, but no higher than 9000 sec (ASL). There's an exception, the GE CF6 turbofan which powers the Boeing 747s/767s can deliver an Isp of 11700 sec at sea level using hydrocarbon fuel (Jet-A1).

PS: I'm not a programmer, so I don't have an idea on the feasibility of having the Isp gradually reduced as mach number increases in this game. If it is practical, then it's gonna be the best engine mod ever (already is though, lol, nice work bro).

Also, you need to set the mass/cost properly to make it more realistic. Normally (but not necessarily), powerful engines weigh more. But this only applys when same type of engines are compared. Rocket engines are the lightest (TWR, thrust-weight ratio) due to the lack of fans, compressors and shafts which weigh the most in a jet engine, whereas jet engines (turbofan/turboprop/turbojet) weigh much more. Ramjets and scramjets are between that two.

Unit Cost:...um, whatever. When you put more technology (read: metal) into it, it costs more.

More discussion is welcomed and appreciated. Will be happy if I can help.

Edited by KanneRyo
technical errors

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Thank you and nice comments.

My idea for that series of engines; was an high-tech engine with an normal weight with an great capacity to lift under 55km for a decent fuel consumption. But it's cons; you need a really big set of batteries to boost them and a coolant system with jetisson to prevent overheating. Maybe with an turbo air intake to boost the engine under 18km. BOOST and HYPER version only.

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As far as ISP curves in relation to things, if you use a plugin you can literally do whatever you want, it's all a matter of finding the information you want and putting it into formulas. Stock wise, the atmosphereCurve defines ISP as a curve related to atmospheric density on a percent scale based on sea level on kerbin, and the velocityCurve should define your thrust along a curve based on velocity, so you can make an engine work less well at given speeds (ie, less thrust when going slow, but them tapering it off past some limit). Though i do know that KSP does some things weirdly, and impacts thrust instead of ISP or the other way round. Experimenting should show that pretty easily, especially if you get telemachus or graphotron. It's important to note, mach doesn't exist in stock KSP, you should be able to calculate mach values based on atmospheric data but those values have no meaning, and frequently have little bearing on gameplay due to other systems lacking. Mach 3 might turn out to be a pretty low number given ksp's flight dynamics. If you want realism, balance your mod to be played in the presence of a plugin like FAR that makes the environment more realistic, without that, all the graphs in the world (nice graph btw) will only help you start somewhere, and from there you'll have to playtest to find what you actually want.

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You're welcomed.

I understand your concept now. It's kinda like an hybrid engine which incorporates normal rocket engine principle but uses electricity to ionize and boost exhaust gas. Am I right?

Well, if so, it's in fact high-tech. This kinda engine is still under develop in the real world. I think it IS a pretty good idea to have it inside KSP bro, great thoughts.

For this kinda engine, the weight won't bother much cuz the exclusive electric boosting system consists only some wire and metal polar board. But you don't need big nozzles or altitude compensation for this. The gain is massive so the extra weight pays off well. Let's say, about 70%-80% the weight of normal rocket engine for the same amont of thrust, which will give it a perfect TWR number. The unit cost should be a little bit higher due to high-tech (something like 150%).

Since it still uses rocket science to fly except some new tech, the max thrust thing should be (but not dramatically) higher. The nozzle limit (underexpansion) is well eased in this design because electric field has the abiliy to redirect ionized exhaust gas, thus fuel flow can be very high. Max thrust should be about 30%-50% higher than normal rocket engine that has the same size (aspect ratio) of nozzle.

For Isp, the usage of electricity makes the fuel comsumption pretty good at the cost of massive battery charge. For liquid fuel and oxidizer, the Isp should be pretty high over normal rocket engine, depending on the energy rate of electricity. maybe higher than hydrocarbon turbojets. 2000 sec is a good starting point.

Electricity usage can be something like 10 unit per sec at full thrust. Or other reasonable value.

The usage of electric field not only benefits the nozzle size but also improves thrust vectoring. So it should have more angular ability to redirect thrust.

For cooling, I recommend using fuel itself rather than air that creates drag. You can have a small size of intake to work as a radiator that cools down fuel, and let the unused fuel cool the engine.

Here's my thought:

For hyper, max thrust 7500kN (sea level, cooled by fuel with radiator) 9000kN (vacuum, cooled by fuel), Isp at sea level 2000, Isp in vacuum 2500 (lower exit pressure, vacuum permittivity), mass 15 tons, electricity energy rate at full thrust 18 unit per sec. Radiator size: massive, Coolant: Liquid fuel/Redirect air (some flaps around the engine before the nozzle). Jettison seperator max thrust 100kN powered by solid fuel.

Edited by KanneRyo

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In fact, rocket engines have nearly constant Isps at any speed simply because they don't aspirate/suck air. So for this mod, it's not a problem at all.

But we do have a way. KSP varies the thrust according to the velocity, but your throttle (although it's not, let's call it so) is not varied. So, it means KSP varies thrust per fuel flow, thus Isp.

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Thank you guyz and nices comments. How i can set 2 max thrusts ? I saw 2 settings in the .cfg for the isp but only 1 for the max KN. I need to compile a plugin to set it ?

Edited by Warsoul

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IIRC there's a binary value that describe the presence of the atmosphere where 0 means no and 1 means yes.

You can use external album and URL them.

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