The Eve Circumnavigation Challenge

[Fengist]

This challenge has been expanded and reloaded. You can find the new one here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/86344-Eve-Circumnavigation-Challenge-%28Expanded%29?highlight=eve+circumnavigation

You're still free to do this one tho.

I've seen challenges to fly around Kerbin. I've seen challenges to make an SSTO. I've even seen challenges to fly to another planet/moon and return. Now that you have those skills, it's time to put them to use and do something very different. The Eve Circumnavigation Challenge is one that that will require flying skill, rocketry skill, planning and a good deal of patience if you are to succeed. And a good deal of luck if you're not to explode.

Goal. Circumnavigate EVE with an aircraft. More specifically, a Kethane powered aircraft.

The Challenge

Eve is a fantastic planet for flying. It's atmosphere is as thick as soup and reaches up into the heavens. But it's gravity well is something akin to a black hole. Your goal is to explore Eve in all of it's vastness from the comfortable seat of a pit. This challenge will be loaded with exactly that, challenges. From the skill of learning how to fly a Kethane powered engine to planning and managing fuel stops there will be plenty to do. Carrying enough Kethane to complete a non-stop, though possible, is (I'm thinking unless someone proves me wrong) rather impractical. You'll probably need to make several fuel stops along the way.

Determining how you'll refuel is another set of challenges. Do you mount drills on your aircraft and suffer through their added weight, electrical and fuel consumption or do you pre-position drilling station fuel stops along your planned route?

Whichever solution you choose, this challenge, reminiscent of the days of barnstormers, will provide you with amazing views of the new Eve, challenge both your flying and landing skills as well as your abilities to both think ahead and think quickly.

This challenge is not about speed, it's all about efficiency, planning and being prepared for the worst.

The problems:

Jet engines don't work on Eve. It's atmosphere is totally void of oxygen. But, Kethane burns and Eve has vast stores of the viscous liquid spread over it's surface. Fortunately, there is a jet engine that specifically burns Kethane.

Kethane jet engines love Kethane. A lot. Their efficiency is nothing to brag about. I recently flew twice around Kerbin on 800 jet fuel. 1,000 Kethane only got me 500km (at full throttle). You'll need to be able to pack on a good bit of Kethane to get from one fuel stop to the next and it's not light.

Kethane jet engines do not work with air intakes, they only work with their own internal KIntakeAir sytems. These are beastly devices as they generate air based on not just air speed and altitude, but engine RPM as well. Meaning, the faster you fly, the faster the intake spins, the more air you take in. But, the faster you fly, the less air it's able to take in and the higher you fly, the less air there is for it to take in. Flying a Kethane jet is a delicate balancing act of managing altitude, speed and engine RPM. Doing it efficiently enough to get from one Kethane deposit to the next is a challenge to say the least.

Kethane jets love to flame-out without warning. By the time you hear the whine of the engine start to dwindle, it's usually too late. Furthermore, Kethane engines can't simply be restarted by throttling back. They can ONLY be restarted when your airspeed reaches 80 m/s or less. And, if you try to reduce your speed and throttle your engines all the way back in flight, they will flame out.

Flying a Kethane jet requires skill and attention. They are not speed machines nor are they high-altitude blast furnaces. On Kerbin, you're lucky if they can reach 10km without flaming out and 450m/s going down hill. They can however, be relatively efficient cruising engines if you manage them well.

Eve has large quantities of Kethane buried just under the surface. Drilling it won't be a problem. However, there are often very large distances between deposits and the safest route to fly, may not always be the shortest. While some deposits are in vast mountain ranges and difficult to reach, others are located on tiny islands in Eve's vast oceans. Deciding where to fuel and hoping you have enough to get you there will not only challenge your planning and navigation skills, but your efficient flying skills as well.

I have done this myself and it's very gratifying. And, with all the skills involved, it is a challenge. The good news is, you don't have to complete it all in one sitting and saving your game along the way is a pretty good idea. This is not going to be a 30 minute challenge and then done with nor is it going to be hours of ship building.

And yes, a Duna challenge is on the horizon.

Rules:

1. There are 3 categories for completion. Stock, Assisted Stock and Full Mods. Stock: Your aircraft must be completely stock with the exception of the Kethane mod. No infi-gliding, no part clipping. Assisted Stock: Only MechJeb or other autopilots will be allowed on fully stock aircraft. Full Modified: 'Reasonably' balanced mods and plugins (like FAR) will be allowed but in a separate category. If flying with mods or plugins, you must indicate which you used when you complete the challenge. Plugins or mods cannot be modified from their original distribution. The purpose here is not to limit creativity but to create a level playing field and to give others a fair 'gauge' of what it took to complete the challenge. You must provide a screenshot of this craft so that it's plainly visible.

2. Your aircraft must be piloted.

3. No rocket, srb or jet engines on the aircraft once landed on Eve. Only the Kethane jet engine. You may use rockets or any other stock/non-stock engine to fly your craft to Eve but they must be jettisoned before your initial landing. You may use any 'reasonable' number of Kethane engines. (sucking an entire deposit dry probably isn't a good idea and Kethane jets aren't light either)

4. You may either fly your aircraft to Eve (SSTO) or deliver it via a rocket. You can use non-stock parts and/or autopilots to deliver the aircraft to Eve if needed. The challenge is not getting to Eve but you must use 'conventional' methods to get there. No editing or other means of making your aircraft instantly appear on Eve or in orbit above it. Once your aircraft lands on Eve, it must contain only stock and Kethane parts.

5. Upon landing on Eve you will declare you starting point by taking a Kerbal EVA and planting a flag. This Kerbal can come either from your aircraft or from a base already established there but your aircraft must be at that location. You must provide a screenshot of the flag planting. Flag, flight stats, aircraft resources and plane must be visible to some degree.

6. You must land on Eve with 0 Kethane in your tanks. You may stop en-route for other fuel but you may not take on Kethane until you land on Eve.

7. Your circumnavigation not need take the shortest path and most likely won't. Once you choose your general direction you must continue in that direction. If you choose to fly east to west, you can only reverse direction in order to make fuel stops (should you realize you have to reverse course because you can't make it to the next one) and once fueled, you must continue back on the east to west path. You can of course fly north or south in this example in order to reach fuel stops. The goal is to circumnavigate. That means around. No flying east, then north over the pole then south and then back east. You can do a polar circumnavigation if you choose.

8. Fueling en-route may be either the aircraft fueling itself or from a base. To clarify, you can either pack your own drills or have a vehicle meet you and fuel your aircraft. No unlimited fuel or other such nonsense which defeats the spirit of this challenge. Use of drop tanks, even on a stock plane, will be considered as being in the 'modified' category. It's been proven that this challenge can be done without drop tanks.

9. Your aircraft must land back at your starting point with all the parts it left with. Losing parts anywhere along the way is a disqualification. You must provide a screenshot of the end of flight stats and the starting point flag.

10. Warping. This challenge is about enjoying the view and the flight. I don't encourage it but do it if you must. The only time warping is encouraged is if you are drilling (Depending on your electrical generation, that could take some time. This challenge isn't about watching drill animations.) Be aware that Eve is mostly desert. Warping while landed has been known to have detrimental effects on tires (they get buried in the sand).

Fly safe and enjoy the view.

Came to realize that not everyone is comfortable modding parts. Therefore, to help you test your jets, here's a pre-filled 1000 unit Kethane tank. Simply unzip to your GameData directory.

1000 unit prefilled Kethane tanks

Changes/Additions to rules

Changed the (FAR) category to Full Mods. This will allow usage of nice aircraft mods like PWings and B9. BUT. You must use STOCK Kethane engines and STOCK Kethane fuel tanks. No editing of .cfg files in this category. Challenge yourself, not the mods.

[Eve Kethane Challenge Circumnavigators] (Stock unassisted)

automcdonough | Landed on Eve backward but flew around it forward.

Fengist | Because the OP has to do his own challenge!

[Eve Kethane Challenge Circumnavigators] (Stock autopilot assisted)

Spartwo | Handicapped accessible plane.

[Eve Kethane Challenge Circumnavigators] (Full Mods)

nhnifong Includes a 30 minute narrated slide show of the attempt... umm wow.

Voculus Using Spaceplane+ mods.

[Craft Files]

Kethane Dart Mk2c | Rottielover created this aircraft for use by challengers and made it freely available.

PKP-2 | This is the stock craft I completed the challenge with. Note that the tanks on this craft file are empty. Grab the filled ones linked above and swap them out if you'd like to fly it on Kerbin. Take note this plane is FAR from perfect and is a huge challenge to fly on Eve. Fly it there at the risk of your own sanity.

And how bad is flying on Eve?

Signature sized.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Fengist
Added drop tanks ruling and craft files

[TheCanadianVendingMachine]

Have you tried this yourself?

[Galacticruler]

Untill I hit the "Rules" section I thought I was reading a book.

good work, however I won't be partaking of this challenge.

also I sigged the true statement at the top.

[Fengist]

If you read the wall of text it plainly says, 'I have done this myself and it's very gratifying. '

[Fengist]

Untill I hit the "Rules" section I thought I was reading a book.

good work, however I won't be partaking of this challenge.

also I sigged the true statement at the top.

Wanted to make sure that people knew the difficulties of it. I didn't want them thinking a Kethane engine flies like any of the stock engines. That was basically my advice to 'try before you fly'

[Galacticruler]

Well, still, you did well in the writing of that.

Ever considered writing a KSP novel?

and yes, Kethane engines are much like rich people, it must be PERFECT or I QUIT.

[Fengist]

Have you tried this yourself?

And no, I do not currently have a 'stock' one on Eve. I did this stock before the last patch and did a complete wipe, along with screenshots when the patch came out. What I do have on Eve is a 'modified' B9. It hold 4,000 Kethane in wing tanks and has considerably better performing engines (fuel consumption, definitely not speed). So, I am aware of flight characteristics on Eve, as well as Kethane deposit layouts and know full well a stock plane with Kethane engines can do it. I will rebuild my old stock one and join in none-the-less.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Fengist

[Fengist]

Well, still, you did well in the writing of that.

Ever considered writing a KSP novel?

and yes, Kethane engines are much like rich people, it must be PERFECT or I QUIT.

I was a journalist in the Navy. Had my fill of writing for money.

[Fengist]

For those who may be considering this challenge, here's some shots of my current re-attempt.

So far, only two major problems have come up. The first was the initial landing. After entering the atmosphere my plane, PKP, went into an uncontrolled spin. I was pretty sure the weight distribution with 0 Kethane in the tanks was causing the problem. But, once I got down to 6km, something really odd happened. It smoothed out and started gliding rather nicely... backward.

There's a screenshot. Take a look at the navball. 45m/s in reverse. Fortunately, I hit the ground at around 23m/s... nose.. or is that tail... first and landed unscathed. Only other problem is for some reason it wants to roll to the right slightly and SAS can't seem to correct it. Will cost me some fuel to keep it straight but it's very flyable... now that it's going forward.

Oh, and except for a few flashy pieces on the tug, and the tug RCS ports it's all pretty much stock.

On the Launch Pad

Docked to a tug with a fuel drop tank attached to the rear.

Arrival at Eve. Fuel tank discarded.

Reentry burn complete, lander discarded.

Landing on Eve... backward.

Current Route.

[Bobhendly]

I See B9 Parts in there

[Fengist]

I See B9 Parts in there

Yes, you do. Very observant. Read the rules. Only the AIRCRAFT must be stock. You don't see any on it.

[automcdonough]

I like your plane. Mine is turning out quite different but it's about ready to try flying on eve..

[Fengist]

I like your plane. Mine is turning out quite different but it's about ready to try flying on eve..

Thanks. I did a tradeoff with it. I went for a higher lift than normal because I wanted off the ground rather quickly. On Eve, you don't have that end-of-runway ski-jump.

[automcdonough]

made it!

successful areobrake. currently in polar orbit letting the scanners get all the kethane mapped.

I'm not sure if I ended up with more lift or not, but i found a balanced way to only have 1 engine and 1 drill.

The section with the nuke tank will remain in orbit, it is a return stage with empty seat, if i can get back to orbit then there's a ride home.

i also added brake chutes because i suck at landings. and rover wheels just in case i have a total navigation fail i can limp around to the next pool. I really have no idea how far this can go on the tanks it's got.

there's a small rocket engine onboard to SSTO this thing up to the return module, i must have forgotten the part where you said they have to be jettisoned. they won't be used for the challenge, just dead weight. How can I slide this in? What if I post a screen showing that the fuel tank is emptied out before challenge starts? I don't see how they would benefit the challenge anyway with the horrible efficiency.

edit again: my bad this variant has 2 k-jets.

Edited August 18, 2013 by automcdonough

[automcdonough]

GET THIS PARTY STARTED

Let the record show that all fuel tanks are empty:

Starting position:

35º 34' 37" N

243º 8' 33" E

(35N 117W as shown by Kethane map)

http://i.imgur.com/0YHAaCu.png

Cookin along.

I had a mishap where the engines stalled and I lost control, but was able to recover. As you said they kick back on once the speed goes below 80m/s. For me it seems anything over 30k altitude is too dangerous. For the second leg of my trip I'll try to get up over 25k asap and keep it under 30k. This thing tends to require constant babysitting to keep it in that window. I had hoped to walk away from it for a while.

2nd landing shots:

flag

plane safe and sound

map

(2ºS 142ºE)

As you can see I'm going SE, (hading 250~260º). Seemed like the best arrangement of kethane globs for me.

So on the first leg I made it 37ºS and 101ºE. That's a total distance of 119º. I used 6450 Kethane to do it.

At this rate, the effective range of my plane is 148º. I've got 241º left to go, so there should only be 1 more stop before I make it back to the start point.

edit:

3rd stop

1653 fuel left, used 6347

40S 31E

travelled -2 -111, 111 total

usd 57K per 1º

Took pics but who cares they look the same.

high-alt fast cruise not as efficient. lower ISP up there for sure.. gotta find the sweet spot in the middle.

edit again:

looks like the last leg of the trip is over a huge ocean. I'll have to make an extra stop to fuel up. and this will involve landing on a small island! D:

Edited August 19, 2013 by automcdonough

[Fengist]

made it!

successful areobrake. currently in polar orbit letting the scanners get all the kethane mapped.

I'm not sure if I ended up with more lift or not, but i found a balanced way to only have 1 engine and 1 drill.

The section with the nuke tank will remain in orbit, it is a return stage with empty seat, if i can get back to orbit then there's a ride home.

i also added brake chutes because i suck at landings. and rover wheels just in case i have a total navigation fail i can limp around to the next pool. I really have no idea how far this can go on the tanks it's got.

there's a small rocket engine onboard to SSTO this thing up to the return module, i must have forgotten the part where you said they have to be jettisoned. they won't be used for the challenge, just dead weight. How can I slide this in? What if I post a screen showing that the fuel tank is emptied out before challenge starts? I don't see how they would benefit the challenge anyway with the horrible efficiency.

edit again: my bad this variant has 2 k-jets.

Well done. Interesting looking wing design. I'll let the engines slide provided you don't use that converter to fill them until your circumnavigation is complete. This challenge is more about proving to yourself that you did it within the confines of the rules and not just proving it to me. If you say you made it without using them, I'll believe you. However, I seriously doubt it'll get you back into orbit. Escape velocity from Eve is well over 3,000 m/s.

So, now that you've landed on Eve once or twice, you still think those parachutes are needed?

Edited August 19, 2013 by Fengist

[Fengist]

Cookin along.

I had a mishap where the engines stalled and I lost control, but was able to recover. As you said they kick back on once the speed goes below 80m/s. For me it seems anything over 30k altitude is too dangerous. For the second leg of my trip I'll try to get up over 25k asap and keep it under 30k. This thing tends to require constant babysitting to keep it in that window. I had hoped to walk away from it for a while.

high-alt fast cruise not as efficient. lower ISP up there for sure.. gotta find the sweet spot in the middle.

So far, the short hop that I've done was all below 25k and running about 50% throttle. I know the last leg of my flight will be the longest one and I'm only packing half the fuel you are so I'm still experimenting with efficiency.

looks like the last leg of the trip is over a huge ocean. I'll have to make an extra stop to fuel up. and this will involve landing on a small island! D:

Yep, I've already spotted that island and had it as a planned stop. Let's hope it's bigger than it looks from orbit.

[automcdonough]

Well done. Interesting looking wing design. I'll let the engines slide provided you don't use that converter to fill them until you're circumnavigation is complete. This challenge is more about proving to yourself that you did it within the confines of the rules and not just proving it to me. If you say you made it without using them, I'll believe you. However, I seriously doubt it'll get you back into orbit. Escape velocity from Eve is well over 3,000 m/s.

So, now that you've landed on Eve once or twice, you still think those parachutes are needed?

Yeah I'm a bit worried about that too, if the jets are only good till 30k then that's a lot of ground to cover on the rockets.. and i'm also concerned that they may need fuel faster than it can convert. Only 1 way to find out, and I haven't gotten there yet!

I have not needed the chutes! Or the wheels! Landing this thing is painfully slow.. but it's actually great practice! I've never before landed the same craft so many times in a row successfully. coming in from orbit I had the same issue as you, had to fly it in reverse. It acts better when the tanks aren't empty. Takeoff when full is a bit rough, I had considered adding one more tank in design and I had a gut feel not to. My gut was right.

Putting extra landing gear on the wing tips definitely paid off for me, most of the places I've landed were not perfectly level.

[Alfondoo]

No P-wings? Absolutely love the idea of this challenge but hate the stock wings....hate them a lot.

Any chance you could open up a separate scoring section for controlled mods? P-Wing, B9, Touhou etc. (I only want to use P-Wing but there are loads of balanced aircraft mods that people could be making use of, especially when you consider that you're only letting them use structural parts & wings)

Would open the challenge up to a lot more people as there isn't any aircraft challenges for mod users on this forum

I've been building keth-jets for a while so really interested in doing this.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Alfondoo

[automcdonough]

procedural wings look pretty clean, i'm gonna try that mod out for sure.

[Fengist]

No P-wings? Absolutely love the idea of this challenge but hate the stock wings....hate them a lot.

Any chance you could open up a separate scoring section for controlled mods? P-Wing, B9, Touhou etc. (I only want to use P-Wing but there are loads of balanced aircraft mods that people could be making use of, especially when you consider that you're only letting them use structural parts & wings)

Would open the challenge up to a lot more people as there isn't any aircraft challenges for mod users on this forum

I've been building keth-jets for a while so really interested in doing this.

Tell you what. I'll open it up to full mods under a separate category. That'll give you some nice wings and fuselages with PWings and B9. BUT. The engines must be STOCK Kethane engines. Don't go and do what I did with my B9 and modify the .cfg files so that any jet engine will run on Kethane or any part will hold Kethane. This is supposed to be a challenge. I know full well B9 wings make flying on Eve easy and any part can be made to hold fuel. Challenge yourself. Don't make it too easy. If you do complete it, just let me know what mods you use and I'll include it in the listing. Fair enough?

[Fengist]

Here's a quick update on my status. Two relatively uneventful flights today. One bit of good news for me is the plane has stopped pulling to the right for whatever reason. But, SAS still can't keep it on course and trying to make it perfectly level takes constant attention. Did one of the longer stretches and landed with 1300 fuel left. Gives me confidence that I should make the final and longest leg of the journey with a little fuel to spare... assuming the plane keeps flying forward with vapors in the tanks, which has me a bit concerned.

Coming in for a landing on a rugged peninsula.

Current status.

[Alfondoo]

Tell you what. I'll open it up to full mods under a separate category. That'll give you some nice wings and fuselages with PWings and B9. BUT. The engines must be STOCK Kethane engines. Don't go and do what I did with my B9 and modify the .cfg files so that any jet engine will run on Kethane or any part will hold Kethane. This is supposed to be a challenge. I know full well B9 wings make flying on Eve easy and any part can be made to hold fuel. Challenge yourself. Don't make it too easy. If you do complete it, just let me know what mods you use and I'll include it in the listing. Fair enough?

Of course, thank you very much!! I do think you should state which mods people can use though.

I will only be using Kethane + P-wing to do this. Expect my entry in a few days

[Fengist]

I have not needed the chutes! Or the wheels! Landing this thing is painfully slow.. but it's actually great practice! I've never before landed the same craft so many times in a row successfully.

LOL, welcome to Eve. My last landing I touched down at 12 m/s.

Putting extra landing gear on the wing tips definitely paid off for me, most of the places I've landed were not perfectly level.

Yep, Good choice. Having been to Eve before, I took a 'wide stance' on my landing gear as well. If you see the shot of my landing you'll notice the pods on the wings are the fuel tanks and the forward landing gear are under those. Two more landing gear are on the rear on the outsides of the engines. Good news is, the atmosphere is so thick you can fly so slow that you can damn near land on your tail and survive.

[Fengist]

Of course, thank you very much!! I do think you should state which mods people can use though.

I will only be using Kethane + P-wing to do this. Expect my entry in a few days

If I'm going to open it to one, I might as well open it to all of them as long as they are 'reasonably' balanced and they let me know which ones they use. That way, anyone who sees those that have completed it with mods will have some 'gauge' as to what it took and hopefully want to try it themselves. Again, this challenge is about challenging yourself, not the mods. There is no score for the biggest or fastest and the only 'win' is in the satisfaction of the completion... that and adding my cool logo to your sig.