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Apollo13

Why the Hate Towards Mods

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I'm curious why people always have to qualify just what they use MechJeb for during a mission?

There are people who proffer a mindset that using MJ is cheating and will always be cheating, but if it is cheating then NASA cheats because they have autopilots and computers that do some of the same stuff as MJ does.

I think KSP asks a player, "How do you want to play?" And it's up to that player to decide the answer. For me, I use MJ sometimes to get into orbit, other times I do it manually. I never used the autopilots until I learned how to do it manually. Most of the time now I am using just for the TWR/DV calcs and the time warper it has. Saves me from overshooting maneuver nodes.

This is how I play and it makes the game fun and interesting for me. Some people want total control of every and some people want to hand off the "Did this 1000 times" over to something like MJ.

I don't like to use a lot of part addons. I try and stay as stock as possible. Other people love millions of parts to choose from.

My point: There is not WRONG way to play KSP. It's single player. Enjoy it how you want.

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I'd mention if I've used MechJeb, but I don't consider it cheating. I don't see why should that be connected. Is mentioning "without MechJeb" such an issue?

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I'd mention if I've used MechJeb, but I don't consider it cheating. I don't see why should that be connected. Is mentioning "without MechJeb" such an issue?

Not at all. I just find it amusing when I see posts like "WITHOUT MechJeb", as if the author has some insecurity about using it.

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If you're having fun, you're probably doing it right.

I do missions with and without MechJeb, depending on what factors I consider important for that mission. Sometimes I'm doing a challenge, either from the forums or from reddit, in which case I stick to the allowed mods if any, as otherwise, there's no real way to compare results for the mission. Other times, I'm wanting to test a ship design, at which point the piloting skill isn't what I want to measure, so it isn't particularly relevant, and letting mechjeb babysit the craft means I can do something else. I'm well beyond the point where keeping the ship aimed at the maneuver node marker is interesting or challenging in most cases.

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Not at all. I just find it amusing when I see posts like "WITHOUT MechJeb", as if the author has some insecurity about using it.

If someone doesn't use MechJeb, it immediately makes everything harder.

I've tried using it. It's ok, it's especially useful when landing on an exact spot on an atmosphere covered planet. It makes all so much easier. I don't object and whine about people using it, I don't consider that as cheating, but it two people run the same mission, one with and one without MJ, I'll recognize the latter as a greater achievement.

However I've stopped with it because it took the fun out of KSP for me. I don't do repetitive launches just to make a large station with tons of fuel, where no MJ would mean tedious work. I do small projects. Probes, weird orbits, visiting interesting places. And I enjoy developing rockets. Watching them fail can sometimes be half the fun. :)

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If someone doesn't use MechJeb, it immediately makes everything harder.

Eh, I have to disagree. There is no "hard" involved in baby-sitting a fifteen-minute nuclear engine burn, unless you count staying awake... Docking without wasting RCS is literally so easy that there is no reason to let MechJeb do it. As for launching, MechJeb is a lot harder on the controls than the new SAS so I don't exactly know how it makes that easier. It also can't plot a Hohmann transfer outside optimal, so it's not exactly helpful there.

Basically MechJeb is a great assistant, not a great take-over-the-game-from-you-er, which is why I find statements like this so funny:

However I've stopped with it because it took the fun out of KSP for me.

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I would like to thank you for being civil in your discussions so far, but don't get hung up over "to mechjeb or not to mechjeb" and the "cheating vs real world autopilot" aspects. Threads like this always seem to end up getting stuck here, and it never ends well. This particular issue has been beaten to death over and over again.

That said, you're welcome to continue discussing the advantages and disadvantages of using or not using mods so long as you avoid getting hung up on one topic and continue civil discussion.

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There are people who proffer a mindset that using MJ is cheating and will always be cheating, but if it is cheating then NASA cheats because they have autopilots and computers that do some of the same stuff as MJ does.

I could give you several reasons why that is quite possibly the stupidest argument possible, but I've already done that 100x before. So all I' going to say is; No, you're wrong.

Anyway, on these forums at least I rarely see any "hate towards mods", and when I do it's barely noteworthy.

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There's no real sense in "Mod hate", addoms really expand the game and for a great many people they make KSP more fun, there's just a group who think they are somehow pure if they eschew mods.

I fly stock mainly because I can't keep track of too many addons in my parts lists, but I know how much mods add to KSP, and try them from time to time.

Squad want KSP to be modded, the game is open to addon makers, this is deliberate, why complain about it?

Some people like to fly by hand, others not so much but they still like to build and be a part of the KSP community, and the MechJeb hate just gets old real quick now, it's unnecessary, and never has been.

MechJeb isn't cheating, using addons isn't cheating, unless you're competing in a challenge where addons are not to be used, go ahead and install what you like.

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Eh, I have to disagree. There is no "hard" involved in baby-sitting a fifteen-minute nuclear engine burn, unless you count staying awake... Docking without wasting RCS is literally so easy that there is no reason to let MechJeb do it. As for launching, MechJeb is a lot harder on the controls than the new SAS so I don't exactly know how it makes that easier. It also can't plot a Hohmann transfer outside optimal, so it's not exactly helpful there.

Basically MechJeb is a great assistant, not a great take-over-the-game-from-you-er, which is why I find statements like this so funny:

Whether you babysit the engine or not, it doesn't really matter. If your rocket is stable, with SAS and electricity, it won't divert from its course. Waiting is an essential part of KSP, even with physical time warp. With that alarm clock mod, it boils down to the same thing.

Launching... I'd say it depends on the rocket. Larger and more complex rockets tend to work worse on MJ because MJ doesn't know what we want the design to do if **** hits the fan. It's easy then you've got three simple stages, but with lots of appendages you get more room for error. Mitigating errors in an intelligent way is something only a human can do. There were lots of opportunities where I'd have to transfer fuel midflight and then dump excess tanks just to get something working.

Manual docking is the best, I agree. :)

Nevertheless, I like doing everything manually, except in very rare circumstances. When I've actually bought v0.21, I didn't bother to install it.

I'd really like to land on Tylo by my own, or to reach actual land on Laythe without help.

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WHAT no flame war what sorcery is this?

but in all seriousness i agree mods are a fun and easy way to make KSP broader i use a TON of mods and i love each and every one of them and (gets into 10 fire retardant suits) I use mJ VERY HEAVILY

here comes the flame war (puts on 10 more fire retardant suits)

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but if it is cheating then NASA cheats because they have autopilots and computers that do some of the same stuff as MJ does.

I have two eyes, the president of the USA has two eyes, that means i am The President of the United States

Even ignoring than NASA does it because ACTUAL LIFES and MILLIONS OF DOLLARS are on the line, NASA MAKES they own autopilots from zero

Did mechjeb users program MJ from nothing? No, they download a program and call it a day

So can we stop this nosense argument without feet or head? Because is annoying than your guys depreciate NASA just so you can justify using a mod. Its not helping Mechjeb imagen and is not helping your imagen either.

If you want to actually "experience the NASA experience" (which i honestly dont think most of you actually do) get kOS or make your own autopilot

Till then, you have ZERO rights to claim than your guys are "like NASA"

Signed: The President of The United States of America

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INASA MAKES they own autopilots from zero

Did mechjeb users program MJ from nothing? No, they download a program and call it a day

"NASA" got theirs from a guy who wrote the program, too. Regardless of the fact that he may work for NASA, it's not like the pilots wrote their own autopilot. So if I fly and Sarbian wrote my autopilot, what's the difference?

I actually saw some mental pygmies criticizing someone for using MechJeb to launch and fly the BURAN. Seriously, why do we allow people that stupid to even speak?

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I have two eyes, the president of the USA has two eyes, that means i am The President of the United States

Even ignoring than NASA does it because ACTUAL LIFES and MILLIONS OF DOLLARS are on the line, NASA MAKES they own autopilots from zero

Did mechjeb users program MJ from nothing? No, they download a program and call it a day

So can we stop this nosense argument without feet or head? Because is annoying than your guys depreciate NASA just so you can justify using a mod. Its not helping Mechjeb imagen and is not helping your imagen either.

If you want to actually "experience the NASA experience" (which i honestly dont think most of you actually do) get kOS or make your own autopilot

Till then, you have ZERO rights to claim than your guys are "like NASA"

Signed: The President of The United States of America

wow I lost IQ points just reading that...

nobody move until I find them

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wow I lost IQ points just reading that...

nobody move until I find them

I'm still dizzy from all the circular logic. :confused:

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So kOS is kinda awesome. Steep learning curve.. but it adds another layer to the building process. I love having to write a new autopilot thats custom to each new rocket. And seeing it all operate perfectly is the reward.

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I don't use many mods as it makes sure i'm not disappointed with future updates. If squad releases an update which mods have been doing for ages then people complain and get bored of the new feature quickly. :P

Post 1.0 i'll probrably use mods as the updates will probrably slow down.

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WHAT no flame war what sorcery is this?

but in all seriousness i agree mods are a fun and easy way to make KSP broader i use a TON of mods and i love each and every one of them and (gets into 10 fire retardant suits) I use mJ VERY HEAVILY

here comes the flame war (puts on 10 more fire retardant suits)

Oh look, Slendy was right. :D

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Alright guys.

We appreciate your input, but this discussion has run it's course and it has derailed into a MechJeb debate that is starting to ignite sparky replies, despite the previous warnings, so we'll stop it now. Anyway, hate towards mods is silly, your KSP save file concerns only yourselves :)

Thread closed.

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