The Warhammer 40,000 / (Fantasy) discussion thread.

[briansun1]

Because I find this forum lacking one I play tau have been for 4 years now

Edited September 11, 2013 by briansun1

[Gniuz]

Blood angels, even though I don't really play any more. Used to play Eldar when I was younger.

I have recently got into playing Talisman.

For the emperor!!!

G.

[Seret]

Never dug 40K, but used to play a bit of WHFB. I've still got tons of High Elves, Lizardmen and DoW tucked away, occasionally get them out and do a bit of painting. Used to do a lot of tabletop wargaming actually, mostly 1/300th moderns and WW2, and Napoleanics in all sorts of scales.

[NASAFanboy]

Never got into Fantasy...I don't know why.

Otherwise, it is a nice genre. Just can't get into it.

My favorite? War hammer 40K. Fantasy in space.

Epic.

[Moon Goddess]

Tyranids!!!!! Never played I just like the critters

[Xeldrak]

Space Marines, but because I lack other players in my neighbourhoodm I never get to play. Would love to get some Dark Eldar.....but without someone to play....meh.

[Seret]

My favorite? War hammer 40K. Fantasy in space.

Epic.

See that's the bit I never got. A sci-fi game with no sci-fi? Hand to hand combat with swords and axes? WTF?

There was more advanced technology in the moderns games I used to play. Far more interested in games like Dropzone Commander for sci-fi. The miniatures are amazing for DC, too.

[air805ronin]

Main army is Imperial Guard, my other armies are my original Space Marine army and Grey Knights.

Warhammer 40k has plenty of scifi involved, but its a future where science fiction happened and then mankind went into a sort of dark ages. So the scifi is there, but its not well understood. Technical procedures are now a religion with its own cult. Its kind of an interesting concept that touches on Europe's own time after the fall of the Roman Empire.

[M.Wolfy]

Currently the only models i have are Space Marines and a Necron Lord (i don't do it anymore due to how expensive it is here), in Dawn of War i have mainly played imperial Guard, in Dawn of War 2, i play space marines in The last stand mode. Though i have to admit, I'm not great at painting the models

(as you can probably tell, I like using space wolves )

Edited September 12, 2013 by M.Wolfy

[KOCOUR]

Never played, dont own any miniatures, but I read the novels and saw the Ultramarines film, that made me huge fan of W40K universe. Also i played the PC games.

Favorite faction is imperial guard, thanks to Dan Abnet.

Edit: I also dislike the svordfigthing and other illogical stuff. I dont mind magic, psychic powers, or other fantasy stuff, I have no problem with ignoring the laws of physics if it serves the storry good, but i really dislike ignoring logic. and logic says, that sword is useless in gunfight.

Thats why i like the Gaunts Ghosts series most. They dont waste time with swords, they shoot the hell out of the enemy.

Edited September 12, 2013 by KOCOUR

[M.Wolfy]

I also dislike the svordfigthing and other illogical stuff.

True that, i would only see swords and chainswords useful if you were put up against a few tyranids (mainly talking about melee tyranids, genestealers etc.), that is, if you don't shoot them before they get to you . OK, you probably wouldn't be put up against "a few"

No, seriously, a "few" is an understatement...

Edited September 12, 2013 by M.Wolfy

[Manifest]

Oh hey, another fan thread that will probably be shot down in the next few days.

But yeah, warhammer is pretty cool in general, but the 40K universe set in a dystopian future is pretty goddamn cool in itself not taking in account it being from the warhammer franchise.

All in all zealous super mutants bent on purging the universe of any kind of quote on quote "heresy", is going to insure it's fare share of humorous events.

[Gniuz]

What's everyones thought on the upcoming Dark Crusade game?

Is it gonna go down like a burning spitfire or will it actually be good?

G.

[briansun1]

you mean the MMO? any way I think it might be fun

[Xorth Tanovar]

Thousand Sons. Magnus the Red is my hero...the Emperor was wrong!

[Seret]

i would only see swords and chainswords useful if you were put up against a few tyranids

Guns work pretty well at point blank range. Even in real life the fact you can fit a bayonet to a rifle is more of a historical leftover than a useful weapon.

[M.Wolfy]

Guns work pretty well at point blank range. Even in real life the fact you can fit a bayonet to a rifle is more of a historical leftover than a useful weapon.

Run out of ammo? keep pulling trigger

(though i don't think normal weapons in warhammer 40K ever run out of Ammo )

[briansun1]

Run out of ammo? keep pulling trigger

(though i don't think normal weapons in warhammer 40K ever run out of Ammo )

game wise never but fluff wise yes. (exept orks )

[Seret]

Run out of ammo? keep pulling trigger

Well yes, that's the only reason you still get bayonet lugs on rifles, but it's not a compelling one. In reality if you kick down a door or jump into somebody's foxhole without a full mag then you're a few sandwiches short of a picnic. And if you can't hit them with 30 rounds at point blank range you're probably in the wrong line of work.

If you're completely out of ammo (and nobody else has any either) then the fight's over whether you've got a bit of pointy metal to put on the end of your rifle-shaped paperweight or not. Time to give up or go home.

[air805ronin]

In an epic conflict of hundreds of thousands crashing into lines of hundreds of thousands, you may find that your allotted spare magazines don't last that long. In the close in fighting, when ammunition is scarce and a rifle could be more of a hindrance than a blessing, a sword can come in handy.

Also worth nothing is space marines are roughly the equivalent of an order of knights on the medieval battlefield. If they get in close with a power sword an entire unit can die (in fluff and on the tabletop). I have had one squad leader with a power weapon carve a hole in an enemy line allowing for the capturing of a victory point.

That said, this is 40k not Afghanistan. In general the conflict and types of fighting are different, and you cannot apply what will work today with what will work in that universe. Implying a modern day battle is over if you run out of ammunition ignores some significant battles from World War I and II where entire units got down to fixing bayonets and praying the enemy didn't attack that night. The last United States bayonet charge I know of was in the Korean War, and it succeeded in saving a fellow unit and taking a hilltop through sheer courage.

Edit: "Capt. Millett, Company E, distinguished himself by conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity above and beyond the call of duty in action. While personally leading his company in an attack against a strongly held position he noted that the 1st Platoon was pinned down by small-arms, automatic, and antitank fire. Capt. Millett ordered the 3d Platoon forward, placed himself at the head of the 2 platoons, and, with fixed bayonet, led the assault up the fire-swept hill. In the fierce charge Capt. Millett bayoneted 2 enemy soldiers and boldly continued on, throwing grenades, clubbing and bayoneting the enemy, while urging his men forward by shouting encouragement. Despite vicious opposing fire, the whirlwind hand-to-hand assault carried to the crest of the hill. His dauntless leadership and personal courage so inspired his men that they stormed into the hostile position and used their bayonets with such lethal effect that the enemy fled in wild disorder. During this fierce onslaught Capt. Millett was wounded by grenade fragments but refused evacuation until the objective was taken and firmly secured. The superb leadership, conspicuous courage, and consummate devotion to duty demonstrated by Capt. Millett were directly responsible for the successful accomplishment of a hazardous mission and reflect the highest credit on himself and the heroic traditions of the military service"

Edited September 16, 2013 by air805ronin

[Seret]

you cannot apply what will work today with what will work in that universe.

Exactly my point. 40K is a bizarre made-up kind of fighting that doesn't actually have any intersection with any historical period or style. That's the reason it doesn't really resonate with me. Tabletop wargames in general are a mix of two conflicting factors: simulation and fun. Too much of one or the other makes for an unbalanced game IMO. The best rule sets (even those in fictional settings) manage to be playable and fun without losing the feel of authenticity. By simply extrapolating the rules and armies for 40K from the fantasy game (which was itself derived from RPGs) 40K hasn't ended up somewhere that I feel represents a good sci-fi feel. The Tau are probably the closest in the game to a real sci-fi force.

As for real-life bayonet charges, even when bayonets are fixed during an attack (as they are routinely) the primary weapons that you use to clear holes and rooms are grenades and lots of full auto. The bayonet is there in case you get the chance to use it, not as the first choice. It's a bit like learning unarmed combat. You learn it, but you don't want to ever have to use it.

I do sometimes wonder if armies keep their bayonets mainly for drill. I certainly fixed a bayonet more often for parades than for poking people when I was in uniform.

[Brethern]

Exactly my point. 40K is a bizarre made-up kind of fighting that doesn't actually have any intersection with any historical period or style. That's the reason it doesn't really resonate with me. Tabletop wargames in general are a mix of two conflicting factors: simulation and fun. Too much of one or the other makes for an unbalanced game IMO. The best rule sets (even those in fictional settings) manage to be playable and fun without losing the feel of authenticity. By simply extrapolating the rules and armies for 40K from the fantasy game (which was itself derived from RPGs) 40K hasn't ended up somewhere that I feel represents a good sci-fi feel. The Tau are probably the closest in the game to a real sci-fi force.

As for real-life bayonet charges, even when bayonets are fixed during an attack (as they are routinely) the primary weapons that you use to clear holes and rooms are grenades and lots of full auto. The bayonet is there in case you get the chance to use it, not as the first choice. It's a bit like learning unarmed combat. You learn it, but you don't want to ever have to use it.

I do sometimes wonder if armies keep their bayonets mainly for drill. I certainly fixed a bayonet more often for parades than for poking people when I was in uniform.

How familiar are you with the F4 phantom? Are you aware that the original was not designed with an internal cannon? A feature that is included on the modern F 22.

At the time it was assumed that missiles would replace cannons.

Well guess what happened? It's been forty years plus since then and like I stated the F 22 has a cannon.

You see it works like this. Technology will fail. A gun runs out of ammo or it will jam or overheat.

A bayonet will not. It also is far superior in hand to hand than trying to swing a bulky rifle around to shoot someone.

[Seret]

How familiar are you with the F4 phantom? Are you aware that the original was not designed with an internal cannon? A feature that is included on the modern F 22.

At the time it was assumed that missiles would replace cannons.

Well guess what happened? It's been forty years plus since then and like I stated the F 22 has a cannon.

Guns on aircraft aren't really the equivalent of a bayonet, they're still a ranged weapon. Air-to-air gunnery would be the equivalent of using a firearm in close quarters battle, which is exactly what I'm saying happens in the real world. Sticking somebody with a bayonet is the equivalent of ramming in aircraft, something that the Russians really did do in WW2. Mostly because they're crazy, mind.

You see it works like this. Technology will fail. A gun runs out of ammo or it will jam or overheat.

A bayonet will not. It also is far superior in hand to hand than trying to swing a bulky rifle around to shoot someone.

Sorry, but how much experience do you actually have using a rifle in CQB? Most rifles these days aren't bulky at all, I've mostly used bullpups and you'd hardly call them difficult to point. Bottom line, if you can get the bayonet into the bad guy, you're already pointing the muzzle at him. Sure, if he's nice enough to be only arm's reach away then by all means jab him with the bayonet while you unload into his unlucky self, but the gun will do far more damage to his wellbeing than the knife will.

Bayonets are only on rifles as a historical leftover from the days before rifles were semi- or full-auto. That's why you don't see them on SMGs, LMGs, etc.

[Brethern]

Guns on aircraft aren't really the equivalent of a bayonet, they're still a ranged weapon. Air-to-air gunnery would be the equivalent of using a firearm in close quarters battle, which is exactly what I'm saying happens in the real world. Sticking somebody with a bayonet is the equivalent of ramming in aircraft, something that the Russians really did do in WW2. Mostly because they're crazy, mind.

Sorry, but how much experience do you actually have using a rifle in CQB? Most rifles these days aren't bulky at all, I've mostly used bullpups and you'd hardly call them difficult to point. Bottom line, if you can get the bayonet into the bad guy, you're already pointing the muzzle at him. Sure, if he's nice enough to be only arm's reach away then by all means jab him with the bayonet while you unload into his unlucky self, but the gun will do far more damage to his wellbeing than the knife will.

Bayonets are only on rifles as a historical leftover from the days before rifles were semi- or full-auto. That's why you don't see them on SMGs, LMGs, etc.

No a cannon is the equivalent of a bayonet or knife. A air to air missile is the equivalent of a rifle.

As for my experience I am currently studying Krav maga. My instructor has shown us what an armed opponent can do and what you can do to him.

I'm also curious are you in the military?

[Seret]

No a cannon is the equivalent of a bayonet or knife. A air to air missile is the equivalent of a rifle.

As for my experience I am currently studying Krav maga. My instructor has shown us what an armed opponent can do and what you can do to him.

Ever heard the phrase "never bring a knife to a gun fight"? Seriously though, somebody with a knife can be dangerous at short range. The police teach their officers that anybody within about 8m could get to them before they've drawn and aimed their weapon. Historically the bayonet existed because rifles were slow to reload between shots and it prevented the soldier from being defenceless in the meantime. These days that's not such an issue. Nobody is trying to defend themselves with a matchlock or a bolt-action.

I'm also curious are you in the military?

I was, not any more. I was an armourer.