anyone land a space plane on eve?

[mattig89ch]

Hello all,

I was watching scott manley's eve or bust episode. And a thought occured to me. Eve had a think and large atmosphere. Atmospheres allow for quite a bit of gliding with winged aircraft. So...space plane on eve.

Has anyone ever tried a rocket powered space plane on eve?

[Deadpangod3]

If you manage to get a spaceplane to orbit from the surface of eve you let me know... I can't even get planes off the ground on Kerbin!

[Rage097]

I can make Flyable planes, But getting them into Orbit is impossible for me. Hopefully in this upcoming update I'll be able to attatch a plane to a rocket in subassembly.

[Luuko]

It's been awhile since my last doing so, but yes.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/22230-Rite-of-Passage-Functional-Shuttle-ExcaliburShuttle-1-%28Stock-17%29

[MrIronMoose]

I flew this on Eve (gliding down from orbit), but when I opened the intakes/started the engines the wings ripped off. It did glide very well though, and probably would've been fairly straightforward to land. (landed on parachutes)

[Zedrophobia]

I've hyper edited a prototype plane that would glide in and use powered flight to takeoff. Rockets only jets don't work with intakes and the gravity is so massive you need so much speed and lift your plane will have to be massive. My plane was as massive as the hanger and it will never take off from kerbin without breaking.

[Rage097]

An ultra-light Ion powered spaceplane with a interplanetary stage that can be left in orbit and re-docked to, would minimize the need for massive planes. of course, quite a few Ion engines would be needed.

[mattig89ch]

hm, I was going to try along these lines.

1. Make a rocket powered plane that will fly on kerbin (doign that now, harder then it sounds)

2. Import said plane into the vab, and attach it to a rocket.

3. test to make sure it can glide down on kerbin

4. send it to eve and see what happens.

I have been using probes to pilot these things. I can't even seem to make a rocket powered plane that will take off period. But I'll keep at it.

Anyone else ever make a plane to do just this?

Edit: Luuko, nice shuttle. Oh, if it helps anyone, I'm trying to do this with vanilla parts. no mods.

[Rage097]

Is the problem that it's too heavy and runs out of space on the runway? or does it spin out and crash on the runway?

[KerbMav]

Electric propeller planes anyone?

[Zedrophobia]

Well a plane that takes off on kerbin doesn't seem to be able to reach the same speed on eve, it's like the thick atmos that makes a plane a great idea is to thick to allow the plane to reach takeoff speed.

[mattig89ch]

Is the problem that it's too heavy and runs out of space on the runway? or does it spin out and crash on the runway?

The one I was trying to get to fly was just running out of runway...and grass. It acted like i really wanted to fly, but couldn't get enough speed in time. I was trying to use poodle engines, just couldn't get enough speed.

That said, I started from scratch and came up with a design that does get into the air. But sucks up fuel like its going out of style. This new one uses 2 aerospikes. I'll get some screenshots in a moment.

Edit:

2nd Edit:

Electric propeller planes anyone?

I'm trying to do this with vanilla parts. no mods.

3rd edit: I can confirm that this thing glides like a sack of batteries. that is to say, the only forward motion that I can see comes from the egines momenum. besides that, when you turn them off, it drops like a stone.

Edited September 11, 2013 by mattig89ch

[Epthelyn]

The one I was trying to get to fly was just running out of runway...and grass. It acted like i really wanted to fly, but couldn't get enough speed in time. I was trying to use poodle engines, just couldn't get enough speed.

That said, I started from scratch and came up with a design that does get into the air. But sucks up fuel like its going out of style. This new one uses 2 aerospikes. I'll get some screenshots in a moment.

3rd edit: I can confirm that this thing glides like a sack of batteries. that is to say, the only forward motion that I can see comes from the egines momenum. besides that, when you turn them off, it drops like a stone.

Replace the two outer engines with jet engines and put the aerospike in the middle, then make sure your centre of mass and centre of lift are roughly in the same place. That thing looks like it'd be very nose-heavy, hence why it doesn't want to take off.

[Skorpychan]

Replace the two outer engines with jet engines and put the aerospike in the middle, then make sure your centre of mass and centre of lift are roughly in the same place. That thing looks like it'd be very nose-heavy, hence why it doesn't want to take off.

But jet engines would be useless for something meant to fly on Eve; no oxygen for the intakes.

[mattig89ch]

But jet engines would be useless for something meant to fly on Eve; no oxygen for the intakes.

Thank you my good man. The entire purpose of this craft is supposed to be able to glide down to eve.

Anyone know how I could make it less top-heavy?

I would try to take the two aerospikes and fuel tanks off, but I do need that rear docking port for when I, eventually, attach this thing to a rocket.

[roosterr]

I dont see an advantage between gliding down to Eve or parachuting down to Eve. They both can make a soft landing using little or no fuel, and then either way you are stuck with a mass that needs enough delta-v to get back into Eve orbit. The only thing that may help is IF jets work in eve's atmosphere, I dont know, but still you could mount jets onto a rocket core just the same.

Edited September 11, 2013 by roosterr

[PotatoOverdose]

Gliding down to eve allows you better control of your landing site, so you could, for example, land on top of a 6km high mountain far more easily with a glider than with parachutes. That's the core concept anyway, but there are other reasons why gliding down on eve isn't a good idea.

[British_Rover]

Normal jet engines don't work on Eve but Kethjets do.

See this challenge

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/46323-The-Eve-Circumnavigation-Challenge?highlight=circumnavigate

[RickRastardly]

Unfortunately I have no pictures but in a previous version of KSP (0.18 I think) I did manage to land a space plane onto Eve without to much trouble. Getting back into orbit again though was an impossibility, because you cant use air breathing engines on Eve there doesn't appear to be any advantage in using a space plane to achieve orbit again than you are using a dirty great big lander vehicle.

If you were going to do this it you could glide down full of fuel then get back into orbit using stages like a normal rocket. An SSTO (which a lot of people seem to be thinking about) on Eve would be impossible methinks.

[DisarmingBaton5]

I think the atmosphere on Eve slows things down so much that planes have trouble with sustained flight. Not only that, but jets do not operate in Eve's atmosphere, so you lose the efficient power provided by jets.

[mattig89ch]

but there are other reasons why gliding down on eve isn't a good idea.

like what? I've never been there before so I really don't know.

I hear alot of people saying that this wouldn't be a good idea. Mainly because jet engines wouldn't work. But thats the entire point, for me. I want to try and get a plane to glide down and gently land. Then use rockets (the things that do work within eves atmosphere) to take off again.

Perhaps I fail in this endevor, perhaps not. But, wheres the reward without risk? And besides, this would be done with a probe. No kerbals would be harmed during this crazy idea of mine.

Does anyone have any usefull or helpfull ideas how I might get a rocket powered plane to fly?

Edit: the center of mass needs to be in front of the center of lift, correct?

Cause thats where it is now:

Edited September 11, 2013 by mattig89ch

[Moar Boosters]

Sounds like an awesome mission to me!

That think looks like it'd fly. The problem is the atmosphere is really thick so planes are going to fly really slowly, so I'm not sure if it'd have much range at all.

Still, there's only one way to find out....

Personally if I were to do this mission I'd try and design a hybrid craft that has rover wheels which touch the ground when you retract the plane wheels. That way it'd turn into a regular rover when you're out of fuel and have to land again.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Moar Boosters

[PotatoOverdose]

like what? I've never been there before so I really don't know.

I hear alot of people saying that this wouldn't be a good idea. Mainly because jet engines wouldn't work. But thats the entire point, for me. I want to try and get a plane to glide down and gently land. Then use rockets (the things that do work within eves atmosphere) to take off again.

Perhaps I fail in this endevor, perhaps not. But, wheres the reward without risk? And besides, this would be done with a probe. No kerbals would be harmed during this crazy idea of mine.

Does anyone have any usefull or helpfull ideas how I might get a rocket powered plane to fly?

Edit: the center of mass needs to be in front of the center of lift, correct?

Cause thats where it is now:

It depends what you're going for. If you are just going to land, fly around a bit, and then land again it will work just fine.

If you're hoping to land, take off, and re-orbit, odds are you wont do so well. Reason being that due to the thicker atmosphere, and having only rocket engines available, the optimal launch trajectory is a pure vertical ascent until you pass through the thickest part of the atmosphere. Wings don't really help with that and just weigh you down.

But if you are using an expendable probe, it really doesn't matter too much. As for useful tips: for just flying around keep your rocket throttle low, a plane flying around at 5 atmospheres of pressure has a somewhat lower terminal velocity on eve than what you'd expect on kerbin. Also, you don't need that many solar panels. In fact you could probably replace all of them with a single RTG and be able to fly around at night as well, and with a better frame rate.

Edited September 11, 2013 by PotatoOverdose

[mattig89ch]

Thanks for the support!

I'm actually experimenting with the idea of using rover wheels that tough the ground after I retract the gear. Trouble is, any craft I seem to make turns into a sac of bricks when I cut the engines.

This craft needs to be able to glide down and land safetly w/out parachutes. Anyone know of a way to make a good glider with rockets?

[dudester28]

While a space plane should be able to land on eve quite easily, it would not be very efficient to use rocket power to take off like a space plane. The thing is that for descent, most people just slap on a parachute or two because it's easier that way.