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kiwi1960

Bad news from NASA, should KSP follow suit?

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Now you guys need to relax.... this isn't a one day KSP excursion to the moon.

The Chinese have a habit of planning things decades in advance... generations in advance... no one said anything about mining the moon next year, or even next decade... what i said is that they are planning on doing it. Starting a base would be the start, figuring it out once you are there would be so much easier IF you are there... staking a claim to the real estate would also help... if there is nothing there... then use it as a stepping stone to... Mars?

Also, once resources here start to get scarce, the price will soar so high that mining it on the moon would be very viable.

As to what is on the moon, the real question is, what is under it. Billions of years ago, meteors constantly bombarded the moon, there could be rare metals, iron, even gold... would it be easy to extract... possibly, with help from the lighter gravity.

Would it be easy to get back to earth? hell yes...

But the real idea would be to use those resources on the moon, such as, smelting them into sheets of metal, sending them into orbit where they could be used to build space ships to Mars or further... even if that took 100 years to accomplish, you have GOT to start somewhere.

And Seret, you said it yourself... AT CURRENT PRICES...

I remember when oil was a massive US$3.00 a barrel.... and everyone was complaining about the price then as well... now, its over US$110...

I remember when lead was very cheap... we used to buy it to line our house roof with it.... now, here, crooks are finding these houses and stealing all the lead and copper from the roofs to sell to scrap metal merchants.... people are breaking into empty houses to steal hot water cylinders for the copper....

as the world runs out of these metals, the price will REALLY go through the roof... asteroid mining will be common place in a hundred years or so...

And lets face it... China has the money to really think far into the future... and they have. They have plans to start with the moon, go to Mars and then to the asteroids. These are REAL plans with real funding... but they are in no rush...

And Kryten, going to the moon is the big cost, with its lighter gravity and on atmosphere, getting things OFF the moon would be simple, and very cheap....

rocket rail sleds would force the resources into low moon orbit where it could be collected by robot transports and carried back to Earth... as no people would be involved, (no oxygen or life support systems or food etc etc) then it would be cheap....

Edited by kiwi1960

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How apt, given that white flags are often interpreted as a sign of surrender.

That´s what i thought. That´s just God trying to be funny, it seems. Since it also seems the first time He ever tried that, i´d say: ´Not bad... not bad at all...´ :D

Or in a polythestic version: Maybe whitening and plugging flags on unpopulated worlds is the past time of the gods - sort of like bowling. And that´s why all sentient species have this urge to plant them. It´s all this universe is about, ultimately. Intelligence just serves to qualify as devine bowling-monkeys.

Edited by Mr. Scruffy

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Kiwi, the kind of resources we're running out of are ones that aren't found on Mars or the Moon; for either to be remotely worth it, we'd have to somehow start running out of rocks.

And...could you please...try using...punctuation...other than...ellipses'...they make...your posts...quite difficult...to read...

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Kryten, its good to know the Kerbals also have a grammar Nazi here as well.

FYI, the asteroids that impacted the Moon as well as in the asteroid belt have EVERYTHING we need, from precious metals to who knows what. The reason most of the asteroids that hit Earth are devoid of these minerals is because they were burnt out by the atmosphere here, but even so, asteroids and comets bought water, life and minerals to earth. (by life, I means the chemicals which induced life to start here)

Back in the 1970's I saw an asteroid plummet out of sky and it was amazing, the light from it was green, they said later it was because it was probably mostly copper based minerals. Now, I'd probably say it was Kerbals coming to have a look if there is any intelligent life here! :)

Asteroids are made of rock, metals and other elements. Some even contain water, astronomers say. Asteroids that are mostly stone sometimes are more like loose piles of rubble. Asteroids that are mostly iron are more, well, rock-solid.

Meteorites found on Earth often come from asteroids, and so they help astronomers figure out what's in asteroids. An iron meteorite can be 91 percent iron and 8.5 percent nickel and might also contain cobalt. A stony meteorite can contain oxygen, silicon, magnesium, calcium and other elements.

http://www.space.com/14749-asteroids-composition.html

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What you saw was not an asteroid, but a large meteor, and the green light is the ionized oxygen, not copper.

And "burnt out" doesn't mean "vanished". When stuff burns in our atmosphere, it forms oxides and sometimes nitrides. Everything in space is already here, but somewhat recombined and displaced by air, water and tectonic movement.

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Man Gizmodo sucks. They talk about these high res images and don't link to them. They only link to their own website. And their writing sounds like a middle schooler's

Did anyone manage to find the original LRO images?

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BTW, people, stop picking on the French. Especially you rednecks from the USA!

maybe you didn't know, but if the French had not supported you in the war of independence, you'd still be a colony of Mother England! :)

And they also gave you a gift of a certain statue.... called Lady Liberty!

never forget that! :)

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maybe you didn't know, but if the French had not supported you in the war of independence, you'd still be a colony of Mother England! :)

And they also gave you a gift of a certain statue.... called Lady Liberty!

never forget that! :)

Indeed, and they were fighting the fascists when America was still sticking it's head in the sand and pretending it could stay out of WW2! You Americans should see the fact you got to help liberate them in 1944 as a chance to pay them back for them helping liberate you in the 1770s. The way I see it you guys are at best about even.

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This made me laugh so hard...

We came in peace indeed. And here's the flag to prove it.

Now, take us to your leader.

Well, The flags are white :rolleyes:

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This made me laugh so hard...

Well, The flags are white :rolleyes:

Hmmmm, I doubt that they are totally white... yes, the UV would bleach them but there must be a faint imprint of the former colours in the flag....

Kind of makes it hard if they ever do establish a colony on the moon... they won't be able to hang their washing out on the clothes lines... :(

but at any rate, yes we are doomed, aliens arriving at earth will stop off at the moon, take a flag and then come to earth...

first words they say will be...

"We klingons accept your white flag surrender...."

I don't think NASA ever really thought that out well enough....

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Heh, to those who say we won't go back to the moon, remember Golden Spike (And American Company), and how it has NASA backing and probably funding from NASA. And remember how NASA is pretty enthusastic about building Americaj moonbases with Bigelow.

Sure, NASA won't return to the moon on a goverment spacecraft, but they will return to the moon and build a base with American companies using American matierals.

Yes, I have to admit I'm overly nationalistic toward America by even average standards, but I'm certain NASA will return to the moon and build a base. Even if the Chinese or Russians get there second, we'll probably do an landing within a year of them. It's all good.

Meanwhile, I don't like that idea. No way, no how. You must also realize that those flags where specially made for the mission, and I believe "resistant to radiation" was one thing it was made for. Let us have our KSP flags be made the same way.

EDIT: And this is why I don't like the Chinese return to the moon. I'm sorry, but having an oppressive goverment on the moon is sorta uncomfortable to me.

Free Tibet and unblock Youtube already!

Edited by NASAFanboy

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Heh, to those who say we won't go back to the moon, remember Golden Spike (And American Company), and how it has NASA backing and probably funding from NASA. And remember how NASA is pretty enthusastic about building Americaj moonbases with Bigelow.

Golden Spike doesn't have NASA backing at all, let alone funding.

NASA isn't enthusiastic about building moonbases. In fact, the moon is pretty much off of NASA's roadmap. They have no plans at all to return to the Moon.

And the only plans they have with Bigelow is the closet-sized BEAM module that is flying to the ISS in 2015.

Sure, NASA won't return to the moon on a goverment spacecraft, but they will return to the moon and build a base with American companies using American matierals.

Yes, I have to admit I'm overly nationalistic toward America by even average standards, but I'm certain NASA will return to the moon and build a base. Even if the Chinese or Russians get there second, we'll probably do an landing within a year of them. It's all good.

It takes 10 to 20 years to implement just about any large aerospace project, and given that nobody is actually working on any lunar landing hardware, it will be a looooong time before anyone goes back to the Moon.

You must also realize that those flags where specially made for the mission, and I believe "resistant to radiation" was one thing it was made for. Let us have our KSP flags be made the same way.

No they were not. They were standard issue nylon flags from a normal government supplies catalog.

EDIT: And this is why I don't like the Chinese return to the moon. I'm sorry, but having an oppressive goverment on the moon is sorta uncomfortable to me.

Free Tibet and unblock Youtube already!

Close Guantanamo and shutdown the NSA already ;-) No country is perfect, and if the Chinese are willing to spend money on space, that that's great news for everybody interested in space.

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Golden Spike doesn't have NASA backing at all, let alone funding.

NASA isn't enthusiastic about building moonbases. In fact, the moon is pretty much off of NASA's roadmap. They have no plans at all to return to the Moon.

And the only plans they have with Bigelow is the closet-sized BEAM module that is flying to the ISS in 2015.

It takes 10 to 20 years to implement just about any large aerospace project, and given that nobody is actually working on any lunar landing hardware, it will be a looooong time before anyone goes back to the Moon.

No they were not. They were standard issue nylon flags from a normal government supplies catalog.

Close Guantanamo and shutdown the NSA already ;-) No country is perfect, and if the Chinese are willing to spend money on space, that that's great news for everybody interested in space.

I know. But I'm American, and that's really natural, (And our Congressmen are way worse. No partnership with CNSA? Seriously? Dear Congress: Get your ass off national pride and let us work with the Chinese!)

You might not have heard about it, but NASA and Bigelow are partnering into a study of private spacestations and lunar bases. Will provide link if you want. If the well-supported NASA Authorization 2013 is passed, we'll be returning to the moon in 2022, anyways.

Golden Spike has just has it's lander cleared for design. It's headed by former NASA officials. It's not much, and it'll probably be after China, but it's a start. The Russians are also seeking US Partnership for a moonbase, which could out Golden Spike and Bigelow to good use even if they are not building an "US-only" base. Will provide links to said things if needed.

Sure NASA doesn't want a lunar return (Though Congress will likely force them to at ballpoint penpoint), Bolden has not ruled out a private lunar return, and some high up in NASA are actively supporting a private lunar return. You also must realize that NASA is actively considering the construction of a EML-2 station as a substitute to a lunar base, so if we don't get a moon base, we'll get a moonbase (In a sense).

What is a moonbase? A EML-2 station on the lunar far side qualifies as one in my definination. It doesn't have to be on the surface.

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I think since China is fiddling its currency in its favour... they owe the world...

They should offer a cooperative international effort to build and work a moon base.

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What was the point of necroing this thread if all you have to add is a YouTube video? Isn't that like dropping in to someone's house two weeks after a party just tell a corny joke that is no longer funny?

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While I see no evidence of it now, this came up under "what's new" yesterday... Otherwise I would have never seen it since that's the only way I review the ads here... :-(

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As a non-American I don't see why this is bad news

Edited by Las-pen
removed comic that had already been postet to this thread

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So your telling me, the french own the moon now?

So, you're the 164535th person on this thread to make that unrunny joke? Must be really proud of yourself.

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Hello. I am here to offer important information. :)

The Apollo 11 flag was blown down, sure. But that means that one end of the flag was facing directly up towards space... and one end was facing down, towards lunar dirt.

To quote the article: "...It is likely that these symbols of American achievement have been rendered blank, bleached white by the UV radiation of unfiltered sunlight on the lunar surface." (emphasis added)

Well, one side of the Apollo 11 flag likely hasn't seen a ray of sunlight since 1969. This means that, as long as the other side hasn't caused the entire thing to deteriorate, the Stars and Stripes are still there, to paraphrase Mr. Key. This means that there still is a colored flag on the Moon, but that it's only colored on one side, and that's the side that we can't see. This also means that we could, one day, recover arguably the most important American Flag in history and display it at a museum, with its red and blue coloring intact. C'mon KSP'ers! We're building a Cubesat... now let's recover the Apollo 11 flag*!

*It would be just about impossible to do this, but I guess if we're already attempting some borderline-feasible goals...

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Both sides are blank because the material is not thick and opaque, and UV rays shine through.

They are all very crumbly right now. A slight touch would probably tear them apart.

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Regardless of that, there is probably still a coloured flag on the moon.

V_Pennant_Luna24.jpg

That's on the Luna 24 descent stage. As coloured enamel, it'll be a lot more resistant to UV than dyed fabric. There's also a flag on the side of Chang'e 3, but that'll have gone the way of the apollo flags soon enough.

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True, enamel is basically glass, and the color is due to some ions. It will last as long as it can withstand thermal expansion and compression. If it's in a shade, that's probably millions of years. Not so sure about the ones in the sunshine. Monthly temperature oscillations are enormous.

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