Modular Fuel System Continued v3.3 (OBSOLETE)

[Gojira]

Is there any way to enable it with the default fuels? If at all possible I'd like to see something of the sort implemented into the tech tree.

[stevron]

I don't know if I'm missing something here but how come despite the LH2 mode on the orbital engines being listed as the highest isp, have the worst dV budget and the worst thrust in comparison to the others that are listed despite showing a far superior isp? I'm using Real Fuels w/ Real Masses, Real Solar System, KWR.

Scratch that. I hadn't realized the huge weight variance with different fuels, I was under the assumption the tanks held a certain weight worth of fuel, not a limited unit count.

Edited November 11, 2013 by stevron

[NathanKell]

Also make sure you're using a cryogenic tank (the Jumbo-64, or the Cryogenic Super-Stretchy).

Gojira: You can reconfigure the engines to use stock fuels, yes. Just edit the engines.cfg file and set all the propellants to LF+OX, and fix the ratios.

[AbeS]

Nathan do you know when will you add the scroll bar? Is it hard?

I'm not desperate though! take your time

[NathanKell]

As soon as I get back from my trip. I know it breaks the game for you and I'm sorry. For now, just remove TANK {} entries in RealTankTypes.cfg for any tank types you don't use. Like, say, Aerozine, Hydrazine, UDMH, and Methane.

[Spanier]

Could you add MFS Support for the Stratus-V Tanks, so we can put normal fuels inside them?

[Starwaster]

I don't know if I'm missing something here but how come despite the LH2 mode on the orbital engines being listed as the highest isp, have the worst dV budget and the worst thrust in comparison to the others that are listed despite showing a far superior isp? I'm using Real Fuels w/ Real Masses, Real Solar System, KWR.

Scratch that. I hadn't realized the huge weight variance with different fuels, I was under the assumption the tanks held a certain weight worth of fuel, not a limited unit count.

Some commentary is in order: Yes, H2 has the highest Isp. What that means is it has the highest amount of thrust per kilogram of propellant. A given quantity of propellant measured by mass gives you a certain amount of thrust.

The reason H2 is used is to lighten the load, especially in upper stages.

[Captain_Party]

He can't share those engines captain some licence stuff

No it's cool, I have them too

EDIT: I've found a bug. MFSC isn't compatible with CrewManifest, I just took it away and all little gimmicks, ie: my rockets wobbling or control flaps going crazy witg FAR, all gone. I don't understand how crew manifest makes a difference.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Captain_Party

[gunnyfreak]

got a little bug, so far confirmed with 2 KW engines

if you get an engine, and configure it so it has a different thrust, then launch, it'll go back to the original thrust value

EDIT: wait.... does the Isp now change thrust instead of fuel consumption? Is that what I'm seeing?

if so: HOLY S***!!! I LOVE YOU!!!

if not: eh well, hope the report helps....

Edited November 11, 2013 by gunnyfreak

[Chestburster]

Not a bug, its intended. Thrust scales with ISP now like it should ;-)

[gunnyfreak]

YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*clears throat

sorry, excuse me

wow... just wow.... love you guys XD

EDIT: so that's why mj and ker have been so confused.... is there a display plugin that accounts for that?

Edited November 11, 2013 by gunnyfreak

[pina_coladas]

is there a display plugin that accounts for that?

I'm pretty sure the latest build of mechjeb does: http://jenkins.mumech.com/job/MechJeb2/ (this is newer than what's in the official thread/spaceport)

I was messing around earlier with an older mechjeb build and yes it's very confusing when your thrust keeps changing when you launch!

[NathanKell]

With a modular engine added to the vessel, open MJ's DeltaV stats. Click All Stats. A new column will show up, SLT. That shows Sea Level TWR. The other TWR measures are for vacuum. Note that Atmo time and Vac Time are now identical since fuel flow is constant.

[gunnyfreak]

thanks

one more question: for the F1 engine, what do you mean by RFRM mode? How do we configure that?

[Chimer4]

slight problem that i have encountered after throwing this mod back in, I cant see all of the MFS options in the action group screen. the last option i can see before it goes off the edge of the screen is remove all tanks. I cant actually use any of the configure tanks options, I have to enter the fuels manually. Is there a way around this, a scroll option perhaps? I'm running at 1366x768 by the way

[AbeS]

He is adding a scroll bar when he comes back from his trip "For now, just remove TANK {} entries in RealTankTypes.cfg for any tank types you don't use. Like, say, Aerozine, Hydrazine, UDMH, and Methane."-NathanKell

[Malsheck]

NathanKell, First let me start of and say thank you for your hard work on this mod. It does not go unappreciated.

I was looking at your .cfg files and was wondering how you came up with the total volume for a given fuel tank? I assuming you have volume multipliers you apply to liquid Oxygen and again to Liquid fuel and add them together to get total volume. I was hoping you could tell me what those were so I could make use of the new tanks that were added to the Shuttle Engines mod by dtobi by making a temporary MM .cfg until this mod was updated. Many thanks and enjoy your trip.

[NathanKell]

gunnyfreak: The version of MFS. MFS with RealFuels with Realistic Masses.

And--aw, thanks.

Chimer4: Yup. It's what I get for developing on a 2560x1600 monitor. If it makes you feel any better I'm in the same boat til I get home--my laptop, at 1280x800, cuts off the GUI too. Really sorry, it'll be fixed ASAP.

Malsheck: Thanks!

Here is your new best friend: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvHneDAy4k99dHlhdktvZW1NS1lndlhNNnRwd3FEblE&usp=drive_web#gid=7

Save a copy so you can edit it. It's what we use for generating engine configs, Isp configs, etc. I settled on 1 KSP Volume unit = 1/200 m^3, based on comparing KSP tank size to existing rocket stages and their fuel volumes. Go to the Volumes page to see all fuels and their volumes (and have a nice mass ratio to volume ratio calculator).

Note that it's not quite up to date, but no fuel stats changed (I just added Methane). MFS v4 will have a bunch of changes.

[NeilC]

NathanKell,

I just started a new sandbox game that I've called "Hard Mode", and I'm really excited about all the mods you're maintaining! Keep up the great work!

I have installed your MFS, DRE, and Stretchy SRB. I also have Ferram's FAR and KIDS. I don't want to take the plunge into a full rescale yet as I like KSP's short orbital periods, but I want to use KIDS' "Far to Real, Adjusted" to approximate realistic rocket sizes and 9k dV launches.

When I change the tech levels on your MFS engines, they clobber the ISPs set by KIDS. It seems that sometimes I'll get KIDS numbers and sometimes the MFS numbers, depending on what I've touched last. It's a bit frustrating.

Have you/Ferram done any testing on the interaction between MFS/KIDS? Is there a way to get them to play nice together?

Thanks again for your contributions!

[NathanKell]

NeilC, thanks! Alas there's no compatibility between KIDS and MFS yet; ferram's been rather busy I think. I added some hooks in v3.1 for easy integration though (two public static multipliers that KIDS can set, and will be applied to all Isps).

For now, go into the MFT folder in GameData, then RealFuels, and open RealSettings.cfg. Just replace each Isp with one a third its value (the first is key = 0 275 so change it to key = 0 91.7 )

Also make sure useRealisticMass is set to true, then you don't need to use "adjusted" mode and can use a straight 1/3 multiplier.

[gunnyfreak]

is it possible to make this compatible with TAC life support? Just let them be resources that we can carry in any tank?

[DasBananenbrot]

I saw it is compatible to Tiberion's awesome NovaPunch Modpack but what about his other work the Shuttle System?

[Malsheck]

Malsheck: Thanks!

Here is your new best friend: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvHneDAy4k99dHlhdktvZW1NS1lndlhNNnRwd3FEblE&usp=drive_web#gid=7

Save a copy so you can edit it. It's what we use for generating engine configs, Isp configs, etc. I settled on 1 KSP Volume unit = 1/200 m^3, based on comparing KSP tank size to existing rocket stages and their fuel volumes. Go to the Volumes page to see all fuels and their volumes (and have a nice mass ratio to volume ratio calculator).

Note that it's not quite up to date, but no fuel stats changed (I just added Methane). MFS v4 will have a bunch of changes.

Ok, here's where I think I got confused.. I thought you were basing the tank volumes off of what ever the set amounts for liquid fuel and liquid oxygen were. That way I could use it in the following example for part km-tank-mid-1:

RESOURCE

{

name = LiquidFuel

amount = 180

maxAmount = 180

}

RESOURCE

{

name = Oxidizer

amount = 220

maxAmount = 220

}

Where I could just do 180*Lv + 220*Ov= Total V and then using your mod type out the following in a new .cfg:

@PART[km-tank-mid-1]{ MODULE { name = ModuleFuelTanks volume = Total V* type = Default }}

[Starwaster]

Ok, here's where I think I got confused.. I thought you were basing the tank volumes off of what ever the set amounts for liquid fuel and liquid oxygen were. That way I could use it in the following example for part km-tank-mid-1:

RESOURCE

{

name = LiquidFuel

amount = 180

maxAmount = 180

}

RESOURCE

{

name = Oxidizer

amount = 220

maxAmount = 220

}

Where I could just do 180*Lv + 220*Ov= Total V and then using your mod type out the following in a new .cfg:

@PART[km-tank-mid-1]{ MODULE { name = ModuleFuelTanks volume = Total V* type = Default }}

No, in the example above, volume is 400 (220 + 180)

also dont do it all as one line or it will confuse module manager.

[Malsheck]

Cool beans, thanks. I was thinking it was more complex than that for some reason.