The Grand 0.22 Discussion Thread

[KasperVld]

No specific reason. Vessels you save are save specific as well. You can copy them from folder to folder manually though, so you can transfer them between saves.

[stupid_chris]

Guys, please don't forget that career mode is very, very far from being complete. We only have R&D for now, many more features will add to this as it goes

[DaRocketCat]

I'm pretty sure a modder can literally take all the current parts, and make a mod in which he rearranges them in the tech tree with different science costs.

The user would have to remove all the original parts, and voila.

[Valley]

To be honest I am underwhelmed by the update. Not sure it is bad or terrible but not really worth leaving all the mods behind. I'll play around with the career mode but still keep the old game with all my mods. Just not really very interesting. Forces me to pilot without mods but that just means at a certain point I'll be forced to stop playing it or find updated mods.

[Katve]

It is awesome in my opinion. I knew career mode will be easy for old players, but it is still funny experience and I think they gave us all that they promised. In my opinion career mode is off to great start and I can't wait for more updates. Also new landing legs are nice addition.

[UbioZur]

I will quote and link harvester about the tech tree:

If you're the sort of player who can max out the tech tree in 5 missions, then in all likelihood you already have a pretty good notion of what all the parts are and what they're meant to do.

The tech tree is balanced to introduce, not to restrict. If we made it challenging to veteran players, we'd be making it downright impossible for new ones.

That said, tweaking the definitions is not only something we expected already, but I'm actually looking forward to see what you guys come up with.

Happy tweaking.

Cheers

Source: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/53140-ScienceDefs-cfg?p=705181&viewfull=1#post705181

Consider this as the foundation of the career mode and all the future updates.

[paleorob]

I am loving it so far. Progressing hasn't been difficult but it has been fun. And it has given me a reason to visit different parts of Kerbin that I've never been concerned about before.

[Silverchain]

was the "fly like 5 times" thing hyperbole?

Pretty sure it was, yes. After 10 missions I've unlocked a handful of tech areas.

[air805ronin]

I don't know how to feel about the update because I can see the promise of the R&D and science additions, but at the same time I get the feeling that budgeting money and assigned missions are needed to add robustness to the singleplayer experience.

If I hadn't of been playing the game for the last year and a half, I think I would find it all a bit confusing.

That said, I did enjoy the feeling of starting over as I got used to the science system. My first rocket was a small one that only got 3/4 of the way out of the atmosphere but I got two crew reports in, then when I landed I took a soil sample and did an EVA report. I enjoyed the quip about spacesuits not being required to get there as he was only a few kilometers away from the space center.

My third launch made it up into orbit and I got to see how to do EVA reports. I launched into a polar orbit and as I crossed different biomes I made different reports and stored each one right after I took it. Then I brought the capsule back down to kerbin in the desert and took a soil sample. I got 82 science for an orbital flight and was quite happy with that. 3 flights and I have the things unlocked I think I need to land on the Mun or Minmus (or both in one mission) so I can see how science can be gathered exponentially and how you can spend it strategically to reach a goal.

I like it, but its not awesome. I think it will get awesome with the extra structure of having to budget money and having missions to accomplish. Career mode, though, definitely needs some narrative introduced through a mission structure and maybe some welcome screens.

[lajoswinkler]

I have visited the nearby island using a rocket and parachute, and climbed the observation tower.

(toggling the HUD with F2 unfortunatelly doesn't remove the charge warning)

133m at the base, 134 at the ground floor, 174m at the top floor.

Let's go, Jeb. There's no elevator.

Clipping shows it's a long way down from the top to the bottom.

My trusty Kraft lies in the grass nearby.

Kerbals can't jump down because they can't climb the ledge. If you try to sample the terrain while being up there, nothing changes. It's still muddy, just like the rest of the island. It probably samples the terrain underneath the structure.

One of the hangars contains that old capsule, an engine and fuel tank, just like before. There's some debris around. The tower is falling apart, too.

All in all, the tower is the most interesting thing there. It would be cool if Kerbal had parachutes and could climb ledges.

[Kosmic Debris]

I like the idea of career mode, and the general structure seems right - accomplish something, get more parts. We can (and will) argue over what should come when, research points and methods, etc....but overall the approach seems right to me. As playtesters, our role isn't really to "like" or "dislike"...but just to provide feedback.

Overall, I'm finding the performance on my system to be better - but as the focus was on career mode there's not a lot different to get wound up about. Still feeling out the SAS/ASAS changes.

So overall, not a really exciting release but great progress on some core work.

[wooaa]

I like the new update a lot, but I realy do not like the new SAS. my ships wobble and don't keep a constant heading.

[lajoswinkler]

It's somewhere between ok and awesome for me. There are some things which were not removed, but many things are added. I expected few more parts, for example a camera. Nothing fancy, simple stuff.

The gap in the poll is too large, but I'll give it an awesome mark because Squad deserves it. This is the best update ever.

[DChurchill]

To be honest I am underwhelmed by the update.

Me, too. It's fun, and a step in the right direction, but I find it's too easy to advance the tech tree. I know the philosophy is to introduce new players to the parts gradually, but I think using that as the sole reason for career mode is a mistake. I love games like Civilization and so many others that have tech tree like features. I like to have a reason to do things in a game. I find pure sandbox boring after a while.

[Whackjob]

You really are a whackjob.

How did you keep the orientation stability?

I didn't have the foresight to have enough delta-v, but I did have a reaction wheel system and eight of the smaller batteries. Just turned on ASAS, and before each time I got out to push, I pointed the whole thing in the direction I wanted to be pushed in. Worked like a charm.

... a five... hour... charm.

[OneEyedShark]

THIS CAME FROM A AWESOME THREAD THAT WAS KILLED BY A MOD D':

I don't understand it... I've posted two post, and both got so many replies

Maybe I am missing something though. I have 4 flights under my belt and I have...something like 3 total research levels unlocked...or was the "fly like 5 times" thing hyperbole?

Well kinda both i've done 4-5 flights (including the "Great Lack Of Struts" colaps) and where over half way through.. so i guess that means it was hyperbole

Edited October 18, 2013 by OneEyedShark

[frizzank]

The research is an awesome step for career mode. Can't wait for money to be put in!

[lazarus1024]

Oh, yes, I'll mention that too. Scene loading seems like it is between 30-70% faster now. I am VERY happy about that.

Booting up the game also seems like it is at least 20-30% faster too.

On the hyperbole, just checking. I was honestly curious if there was some shortcut way to do it all (not that I want to).

I think Research is just the begining. Budgetting and how money is earned in game I think is also going to make a huge difference and I think it is going to be needed to balance Research out and make the game challenging AND entertaining. That and tweaked and balanced research. Just like when money comes in to play later, it probably isn't going to be a perfect implementation.

How many iterations of Sand box have we had now? 21 plus minor releases inbetween? We have effective one release of career now and honestly I think it is a pretty decent first attempt.

Just my thoughts. It isn't the end all be all, but I think a good first start.

[NeoMorph]

I hate this game... HATE IT... Keep trying to make my hardware addons and KSP keeps making me play the game when I should be testing stuff...

THIS GAME IS ADDICTIVE... Digital Drugs...

Nice one SQUAD... the only thing I think is wrong is the start of the tech tree... you should be sending out mini probes first, not stuff Jeb in the can and chuck it into the air.... Should be Sputnik....

[Eric S]

Maybe I am missing something though. I have 4 flights under my belt and I have...something like 3 total research levels unlocked...or was the "fly like 5 times" thing hyperbole?

Possibly, but not definitely. The amount of science you get increases the more you understand how science works, and if you're the kind of player that can do crazy things with minimal parts, that opens up even more science opportunities.

As an example of the first factor, knowing how biomes on Kerbin and the Mun interact with EVA reports can dramatically increase your science generation on early missions involving either of those celestial bodies.

As an example of the second factor, at least one player managed a Duna landing and return using just the parts you get from the very first tech node.

Neither of these are things that someone new to the game are going to be pulling off, and the first isn't something that someone new to career mode and hasn't studied how research works will pull off. Combine both factors, and you get Scott Manley claiming to have done the entire tech tree in three flights, though that was with an earlier build, so it may not be as viable now, and since he didn't show his work it's possible that it was also hyperbole, but I have no reason to think it is.

Personally, while I've done a one way trip to duna using the starting parts, my normal path (yes, I've already done the early part of the tech tree multiple times) seems to be settling into something less ambitious, though I'm sure that there's still room to improve my research methodology:

1) Initial orbital flight, 60+ points, more if I remember to grab a soil sample and do one last EVA report after I recover the craft. This unlocks decouplers (both inline and radial), goo samples, the LV-909 engine, the larger SRBs, and landing struts, all of which play a role in step 2.

2) Mission to Minmus: Minmus doesn't have biomes unless you count the normal three (surface/low orbit/high above), so this is mostly about the goo, a surface sample, and crew reports/EVA reports on the surface of Minmus. I don't remember how many points here, but it unlocks struts, fuel lines, the rockomax 48-7S (which is OP in 0.22), the first solar panel (very big thing), and the materials lab part.

3) Mission to the Mun: the Mun has six or seven biomes that increase the number of EVA reports you can do in an equatorial orbit. I radioed back all of the experiment results from the Mun, and then departed, throwing myself into an orbit that just barely left Kerbin's SoI. Once in the sun's SoI, I did the three goo reports, the materials lab, an EVA report, and a crew report. I headed back to Kerbin, and just the EVA reports and results from the sun's SoI resulted in over 800 research points, on top of over 200 points radioed back.

So three missions that weren't fully optimized, and I'm already done with tiers one through three, have most of tier four researched, and about half of tier five.

On the topic of the OP: Needs something between Awesome and OK. Not sure I'd call it Awesome yet, though tweaking the tree and research rates might tune that up. On the other hand, definitely better than just OK. I haven't voted yet, but given that breakdown, I'd have to go with Awesome. Last night was the second time in months that I've stayed up "way too late" playing KSP, and the other time was right after we saw the initial parts list for career mode and I decided to do a trip to Duna with just those parts (one way in my case, though at least one person has done a round trip with the same parts).

Edited October 17, 2013 by Eric S

[Brapness]

It's somewhere between ok and awesome for me. There are some things which were not removed, but many things are added. I expected few more parts, for example a camera. Nothing fancy, simple stuff.

The gap in the poll is too large, but I'll give it an awesome mark because Squad deserves it. This is the best update ever.

Agreed, a camera would be awesome, especially if it started out fuzzy and low-res and then you could get a better one with research.

On the topic of the thread. I think this update is awesome. I see people going on about maxing out the tech tree in very few flights; that hasn't been an issue for me. It's taking me plenty of time to get things done, but I suppose I'm an average player. I also think some people are overlooking that this is only the first career mode update, and there are plenty of features to be added, like money, which will likely prevent those large builds capable of landing on the Mun happening on their first flight.

I'm having great fun, working with limited parts and having a new reason to visit old places again, I feel like I did when I first started playing KSP.

[Bioman222]

Here's pictures from my ScienceSat-1:

[Wjolcz]

11/10

I like it.

[Lions]

i don't say the update is bad, it is a necessary building block to the end product. I'm just saying that for all the guys that landed on every planet and moon, and did every thing there is to do, that this update did not bring any thing new for us. To be honest if i Had to play ksp for the first time, and it was at .22, i would have fall in love with this game quicker than before . I just want new challenges, even if i have to pay for a DLC or some poo lol

PS.. I voted awesome in any case

Edited October 17, 2013 by Lions

[lajoswinkler]

I went for a stroll down the KSC roads.

Jeb climbed the VAB building. The ladders are now less buggy, but I can't climb up the last ones leading to the helipad, marked red here. I don't know if you can climb down.

When you climb down, some ladders behave weird. You need to face a Kerbal properly, or he'll end up like this.

R&D department looks great. There are lots of tiny streets and some small vehicles. Capsule memorial is still there.

Kerbals can even climb this bridge connecting two buildings.

Taking science samples at KSC says the stuff about wiping feet, so... dirt. The launchpad contains char and some goo.