The Grand 0.22 Discussion Thread

[KasperVld]

Maybe because EA and Rockstar are companies worth hundreds of millions of dollars and can afford big server farms and Squad is a little indie company who can't? Boohoo, so you have wait a little longer for such a great game. Your sense of entitlement is amazing. You should be thanking Squad for doing such a great job, not griping if you can't get it in fifteen minutes or less.

People are always excited for a new version. The downloads may have been a bit slow, and people got frustrated 'in the throws of passion'; I can't really blame them for that

Pro tip: if you want the new version within minutes then use the patcher instead of downloading it through the website

[Death Engineering]

Since this is also now the "What do YOU think of 0.22" I'll throw in my two-bits..

1. Not sure why there is no 'science' scoring in sandbox. I get "the tech tree doesn't need to be unlocked, so why score it?" argument, but I am not seeing a reason to not track the effort of doing science in sandbox. IMHO, this should be addressed in an update.

2. Whatever has been done with SAS is clearly an improvement, at least with my spacecraft. This was immediately apparent when I launched a rocket with 5 Mainsails and forgot to disable the gimballing on the 4 outboard engines. In 0.21 this rocket would sway and was difficult to fly without disabling the gimbals, but in this version the rocket is very stable with gimballing enabled on all engines.

3. Lovin' it.

[Jaxal1]

Of course, FTL drives would need to require tons of power/fuel and would need to be very heavy and/or not very effienceint to balance the gameplay. Being able to slap a FTL onto a ship without cons would be incredibly OP

An interesting 'balance' feature for FTL could be that when you turn it off, you still have the same real-space velocity of when you turned it on. So if you warp from Kerbin to Moho (for instance), you're still going to need a long burn with regular engines to match orbital velocity.

That would make it more than a shortcut. In many cases it would require more delta-V than a proper transfer orbit, and you still care about celestial alignments (because it's easier to match velocities when you're on the same side of Kerbos.)

[Aragosnat]

Outside of having rover parts a bit sooner. Since we know they have invented wheels as the hanger has vehicles in it. Othere then that still playing around testing out what works.

Edit: Also it certainly is a challange to play with such limited parts.

[Gummi]

Hello.

Tried a little 0:22 now and is a little disappointed in career mode. No restrictions on things they researched. such a budget to get a specific assignment to do.

The mission is to bring out into orbit or to the moon. then depending on the science points to get more or less budget and progress.

Wondering if anyone knows if this is happening or career mode should be unlimited resources?

[MedwedianPresident]

Congratulations, SQUAD! Great work!

[holton]

I have to say it is awesome, but I wonder if the first gear available for space rockets would be unmanned satellites first. Thinking we put up devices before we sent people. I really expected logging in to send a simple satellite into orbit first, then work with unmanned stuff before going the route of Mercury/Gemini/Apollo stuff.

I am really excited to do something really dumb with kerbals.

[Subbota]

An interesting 'balance' feature for FTL could be that when you turn it off, you still have the same real-space velocity of when you turned it on. So if you warp from Kerbin to Moho (for instance), you're still going to need a long burn with regular engines to match orbital velocity.

Why wouldn't you be able to turn the ship around and fire the FTL again to bring the velocity back to a maneuverable range?

[SteevyT]

Why wouldn't you be able to turn the ship around and fire the FTL again to bring the velocity back to a maneuverable range?

Because it would be a "warp" drive. It doesn't actually add or subtract any velocity from your ship, just moves it to another location. From a stationary observer, the ship will have the same velocity where it ended as when it started.

[Subbota]

Because it would be a "warp" drive. It doesn't actually add or subtract any velocity from your ship, just moves it to another location. From a stationary observer, the ship will have the same velocity where it ended as when it started.

Oh now I understand what Jaxal1 was saying. That's the first I've heard that warp drives magically transport a vessel without velocity. Is that a Star Trek concept?

[SteevyT]

Oh now I understand what Jaxal1 was saying. That's the first I've heard that warp drives magically transport a vessel without velocity. Is that a Star Trek concept?

Not sure about that one, I saw it in a mod for KSP 0.21 that Scott Manly reviewed.

[Traches]

Another quick question - how much science can you get with spaceplanes? I can take temperature readings from various places on Kerbal (haven't researched barometer yet) but the science you get from that is really low, and to be honest it's quicker launching a rocket in an ICBM style! Before I spend precious research points on the supersonic plane parts, will I get points for taking off/landing* with a plane?

* the closest I've managed to get to landing a plane so far is to put a parachute on the cockpit and 'eject' over the airfield, all other attempts have ended in a fireball...

Later in the tech tree you get more instruments - the accelerometer, barometer, avionics package, etc. By transmitting data back and flying around to all the different areas you can build up a decent little chunk, but nowhere near as much as going to other planets. I think spaceplanes need a little science love, given their difficulty!

[Mordecai]

Carreer mode is still in development... If you don't want to play an incomplete version, than wait until they say it is completed.

Oh, and welcome on the forums.

[Lanfranc]

Oh now I understand what Jaxal1 was saying. That's the first I've heard that warp drives magically transport a vessel without velocity. Is that a Star Trek concept?

No, it's a real physical theory called an Alcubierre drive. The idea is instead of propelling the ship itself, the drive shift the space around it, contracting it ahead and expanding it behind. This allow the ship to circumvent relativity and effectively travel faster than light because it itself doesn't break light speed.

It's used in the KSP Interstellar mod.

[The Jedi Master]

Well, it isn't the biggest update, but it's satisfying. My only complaint is how flipping hard it is to get science at the start of the game.

[Eric S]

2. Ability to store more than 1 ground sample in a 3 man / 2 man cap. (its bigger = more room). (or maybe a sample storage container part, so you could sub orbital and collect from biomes)

While I agree with this whole point, samples from different biomes don't count against each other, you can actually get multiple non-transmitted return samples by hopping around the Mun, I've done it.

[FluxCap]

This is just my second day to play with science, so bear with me...

I was expecting science points to accumulate from one mission to another. I need to get 90 science points, but with my current craft can generate 50. So, was hoping to do two of the same type of missions to get 100, but it seems to reset itself when I recover the craft. E.g., I had 45 points, went into LKO to do some experiments and generated 50 points, and when I come back I only have those 50 points to spend.

I am going to place more science parts on the craft to collect more points to bring back, but was curious if this is the design and intention.

[Jaxal1]

Oh now I understand what Jaxal1 was saying. That's the first I've heard that warp drives magically transport a vessel without velocity. Is that a Star Trek concept?

Well, it's how most 'real physics plausible' warp drives would work. (Like the one NASA wants to make.) Mostly because conservation of energy and conservation of momentum mean that if you go from Earth orbit to Jupiter orbit a lot of energy has to some from somewhere.

It's also explicitly how hyperdrive works in Larry Niven's Known Space books, and a few others.

Most Sci-fi franchises don't talk about it, because the relative velocity (and distance, really) between planets and stars is the kind of thing the writers don't want to worry about.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Jaxal1

[Tuareg]

so many shiips

[EatVacuum]

Well, it isn't the biggest update, but it's satisfying. My only complaint is how flipping hard it is to get science at the start of the game.

The only thing hard is not having a clue what to do. But just go out and try doing stuff.

MINOR SPOILER -

You can buy a couple of advances with the science you can get without even launching a rocket. You can do a crew report and eva report by putting a capsule on the launch pad and then having the Kerbal get out. Walk down to the grass next to the launchpad and collect a soil sample and that's more science points. I gues you could walk down to the sea and collect another eva report because it is a different biome.

[Benache]

I'm a very disapoint.

The tech tree is illogical.

It's quite easy at the beginning, and very easy then.

[Sundancer]

I only got round to actually getting stuck into the career mode tonight and oh my! It's fantastic! It's great if you don't have a specific goal in mind. You just think "Right, I need more points for "xyz", how to get them?" and build something to accomplish it.

Something that's probably fairly obvious, but it should be said anyway (for the not-so-great players, like myself). If you're struggling for science, build something that can achieve Kerbin escape velocity and put whatever science parts you have on the final stage. I used a probe core because I'm not abandoning a Kerbal to eternity in pace and just transmitting data back racked up around 400 points.

Next mission is a Minmus flyby and a Mun landing... (I know, newb-tastic).

Thanks, Squad!

[pa1983]

I'm a very disapoint.

The tech tree is illogical.

It's quite easy at the beginning, and very easy then.

yep very easy. I managed 6200 points with two probes in little more then a days worth of playing and Im not even that good at manoeuvring. 2800 more points and the tree is all unlocked for me. So a bit simple but I do think it would be hard for new comers because they have to learn the the game dynamics to.

I hope we get currency soon so things cost money or else career is boring.

[Daddie]

I do not like the "instant" science and data transfer. I would rather see to give a command to research or transmit something which takes x-time to finish. Also the science stuff like the lab and the goo only have one research option. I would like to see more research options per item some of which that can be unlocked when finishing other research, bit like the career mode tree. For example you need to finish some Goo research before other Goo research options are unlocked. Basicly, it should be rewarding to have more stuff in space for a longer ammount of time. Right now I just click research x multiple times and transmit the data to get more science points, it has no time element.

Another part I miss in the career mode are goals. I would like to see some sort of "quest" I need to undertake, this gives goals to the game. Simple tasks like: Get a sample from Mun and bring it back to Kerbal.

The career mode is really fun to do and I expect it is just the beginning.. keep up the great work

[Sundancer]

yep very easy. I managed 6200 points with two probes in little more then a days worth of playing and Im not even that good at manoeuvring. 2800 more points and the tree is all unlocked for me. So a bit simple but I do think it would be hard for new comers because they have to learn the the game dynamics to.

I hope we get currency soon so things cost money or else career is boring.

You can simulate currency, if you're that way inclined. It's what I'm going to do once I've unlocked everything once. Restart career mode but making every mission as cost-effective as possible. Granted it's only going to be numbers on a piece of paper, but it serves the purpose of making the missions that much more challenging.

Edit: What are you guys doing to rake in the points so quickly? There's going to be a lot of revisiting various places as more equipment is unlocked for me, I think. It's getting to the point where grinding will be inevitable.