Kerbal Attachment System (KAS) 0.4.7 - Pipes as fuel lines and even fewer explosions!

[Superfluous J]

makes sense... i just thought there might be a technical reason.... I had a docking port rip off a connecting tunnel, and had spares on a utility rover, only to find I couldn't grab them. i'll probably end up using pipes for the majority of connections within my bases... more flexible, lighter, and compact than having tunnels everywhere...

Actually the "not radially mounted" is the technical reason. You'll note that everything you can pick up in KAS attaches to the sides of stuff, not the attachment points.

[boberts314]

I have a question for those of you who have encountered the issues with the horizontal stack winch controls and GUI.

How many of you are using Action Group Manager?

I recently uninstalled AGM due to an unrelated issue and I've just noticed that the horizontal stack winches appear to be operating normally from both the context menu and GUI.

[Taki117]

How do I place struts while on EVA using this mod? Can't seem to be able to do it.

You need to place two strut ends (One at each end) and then link them together.

[Galane]

I was able to remove a Clampotron Sr as an incidental effect of KAS. I tried mounting a radial mount KAS winch above the hatch on a 2-man can to rappel Kerbals down to the surface. Upon going EVA the Kerbal would pop up *through* the winch, striking the docking port with his helmet and knocking it off the top of the can.

So there's a part I'd like to see, a winch that can mount directly above the hatch on the 2-man can without interfering with going EVA. that would be much simpler than having to angle a ladder out and mounting the winch on a side booster.

[Commissar]

do the errors in this mean anything to anyone? I copied this from my output_log.txt file. there's about 10 thousand of the ModuleDockingNode errors in the log...

my game has also had more lag than I would expect, considering I just cleaned up most of the debreis, and the craft I was controlling only has about 110 parts.

EDIT:after rebooting, errors are gone. still excessive lag, and higher than normal cpu use...

[HighLogic]: =========================== Scene Change : From FLIGHT to SPACECENTER =====================

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/StandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

loading toolbar settings (SPACECENTER)

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/StandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at ModuleDockingNode.<SetupFSM>m__122 (.KFSMState st) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at KerbalFSM.updateFSM (KFSMUpdateMode mode) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at KerbalFSM.UpdateFSM () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at ModuleDockingNode.Update () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename:  Line: -1)

[Kethane] Saving settings

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/StandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

[KAS] OnDestroy(PhysicChild)

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/StandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

[KAS] Stop(PhysicChild)

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/StandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

[KAS] OnDestroy(PhysicChild)

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/StandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

[KAS] Stop(PhysicChild)

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/StandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

NullReferenceException
  at (wrapper managed-to-native) UnityEngine.GameObject:get_rigidbody ()

  at KAS.KASModulePhysicChild.Stop () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at KAS.KASModulePhysicChild.OnDestroy () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename:  Line: -1)

[PlanetariumCamera]: Focus: Kerbin

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/StandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

[KAS] OnDestroy(PhysicChild)

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/StandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

[KAS] Stop(PhysicChild)

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/ea95e74f6e5f192d/Runtime/ExportGenerated/StandalonePlayer/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 54)

NullReferenceException
  at (wrapper managed-to-native) UnityEngine.GameObject:get_rigidbody ()

  at KAS.KASModulePhysicChild.Stop () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at KAS.KASModulePhysicChild.OnDestroy () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename:  Line: -1)

UnloadTime: 866.305847 ms
Unloading 3 Unused Serialized files (Serialized files now loaded: 0 / Dirty serialized files: 0)

Edited February 2, 2014 by Commissar

[Commissar]

ok, i ran into an issue.

carrying a part container bugs out kerbals, they become impossible to control. they clip through the surface slightly, and just jerk around

[kiwiak]

I think kerbals shoudl be able to grab bigger parts, but only in low gravity/zero g.

Just wanted to share that thought.

[PenguingInc]

I have a question for those of you who have encountered the issues with the horizontal stack winch controls and GUI.

How many of you are using Action Group Manager?

I recently uninstalled AGM due to an unrelated issue and I've just noticed that the horizontal stack winches appear to be operating normally from both the context menu and GUI.

Yes. Im noticed a same problem. Horizontal winch gui not working. Only winch gui window show. But this gui has not any buttons.

Vertical winch working normal.

[GavinZac]

Yes. Im noticed a same problem. Horizontal winch gui not working. Only winch gui window show. But this gui has not any buttons.

Vertical winch working normal.

I was able to 're-enable' the winch menu for horizontal winch by deactivating and reactivating key-based controls.

[jpinard]

Is KAS necessary for Kethane extraction and use?

[Superfluous J]

Is KAS necessary for Kethane extraction and use?

It's as necessary as tires are for a car. You don't NEED it but it makes the whole process go a lot easier.

[Pontiac]

No, it isn't necessary.

I don't use KAS for anything. It isn't because KAS isn't USEFUL, but I just don't need it. I prefer making everything dock with each other, ground or space. To move fuel around I use both TAC Fuel Balancer and Goodspeed Auto Fuel mod. I make sure that my converters have one regular fuel tank attached directly to it, then set the attached fuel tank to auto-pump out at level 8. I use TAC Fuel Balancer to highlight the parts required for pumping out, as well as to manually transfer fuel from one location to another.

Both TAC and Goodspeed are partless. There is a single configuration change that needs to be done with a particular config for Goodspeed to get Kethane to auto-pump around, but other than that, its automatic, persistent, and works great on my Kethane tug and fuel station.

My fuel station does all the refining, the tug goes up and down with an 8000L tank of Kethane. The tug automatically offloads all Kethane, and pulls in the Oxi, Mono and Liquid fuel automatically thanks to Goodspeed.

Edit:

To be a bit more clear, here is an image of my current fueling station as a whole, and a closeup of the refinery.

The way Goodspeed works is that it pumps from a higher level, to a lower level. I have 3 orange tanks and two medium sized tanks on my station. The two medium tanks are attached to the two refineries. I'll call those two fuel tanks the refinery tanks. So what I did was setup the refinery tanks to auto-pump and set them for level 8. This pushes all fuel generated by the refineries out to lower level tanks, so they always remain empty. One orange tank is set to auto-pump and set for level 3 (The one at the rear), and the two remaining orange tanks are set for level 2 and to auto-pump. The tug has two fuel tanks as well, and they're set to level 0. When the tug isn't docked, the two level 2 orange tanks are topped off with whatever the refineries produce, then it starts to fill the single level 3 orange tank. When ANYTHING docks that I've not mangled the pump levels on, the tanks are instantly filled up.

With the Kethane, I have 12 of the 1.5m tanks (Or whatever size they are), split into two groups for the two refineries. To keep the mass towards the center of the station, I have the inner fuel Kethane fuel tanks set to level 1, and the outer tanks set for level 2. The tug has an 8000L tank and it is set to level 8. All the Kethane tanks are set to auto pump.

So, even though the KAS solution works, its still manual labor. With Goodspeed and TAC, there's even less to do after the initial setup. That is assuming you get everything docked together.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Pontiac

[jpinard]

Pontiac, thanks for that amazing description. Your fueling station looks so awesome!

[Commissar]

another problem... kerbal doesn't recognize ladders placed in EVA as ladders... you can't use them as ladders....

[a.g.]

another problem... kerbal doesn't recognize ladders placed in EVA as ladders... you can't use them as ladders....

I actually fixed that yesterday (I think ). In the meantime, does saving and reloading help? I have a hunch it should.

[Commissar]

we'll see. i was wondering about that... but anyhow... just discovered that the ladder rungs on the stack batteries are just for show...

edit: the answer is yes. i ended up just building a rover with a bunch of ladders and stuff, anyhow. probably the lowest part count of anything i've made....

Edited February 4, 2014 by Commissar

[Commissar]

I actually fixed that yesterday (I think ). In the meantime, does saving and reloading help? I have a hunch it should.

is that just for the pagasus ladders, or also for the telus extending ladders?>

[Proply]

Quick question: I can't seem to figure out how to attach a grappling hook to a winch while eva. I select the attach option, but the grappling hook is facing the wrong direction to connect it to the winch, and b/n do not rotate the part in the correct plane to enable this.

[Commissar]

Quick question: I can't seem to figure out how to attach a grappling hook to a winch while eva. I select the attach option, but the grappling hook is facing the wrong direction to connect it to the winch, and b/n do not rotate the part in the correct plane to enable this.

you use the plug button, not attatch. you might have to spool the winch out a bit, but you put it on the yellow end connector.

[JonBar]

I've never understood why one would really have need for kethane converters and containers in orbit, it costs more fuel for all that weight. Seems more ideal to have the facilities on the celestial body and do all the work there without expending more fuel for something that will be converted. Also it is lighter to transfer fuel as opposed to kethane. There is the kethane engine, but if I am correct, it is atmosphere breathing, making it all the more clear that such facilities have greater benefit grounded.

[Nabbs1]

Because it costs fuel to land and even more to land near your Kethane base. You would refuel there then use some of it just to take off again back into an orbit. It is ideal to have a Kethane conversion station in space as you can just slip into orbit refuel and be on your way.

[BigD145]

Because it costs fuel to land and even more to land near your Kethane base. You would refuel there then use some of it just to take off again back into an orbit. It is ideal to have a Kethane conversion station in space as you can just slip into orbit refuel and be on your way.

So you have a pipe from the surface to your orbital facility? Or a magical portal?

The previous point made was, kethane is heavy. The fuel it makes is not as heavy. You run the lighter fuel more efficiently to orbit than you would kethane. You still have an orbital facility that has nothing to do with raw kethane... which is heavy... which requires more dV to get into orbit than stock fuel.

[Commissar]

So you have a pipe from the surface to your orbital facility? Or a magical portal?

The previous point made was, kethane is heavy. The fuel it makes is not as heavy. You run the lighter fuel more efficiently to orbit than you would kethane. You still have an orbital facility that has nothing to do with raw kethane... which is heavy... which requires more dV to get into orbit than stock fuel.

well, kethane is more versatile. you can convert it to monopropellant, xenon, fuel, or LOX. and, yes, any one by themselves is lighter, but if you convert to all 4 on the ground, that's 3 separate tanks you need to lift, compared to one tank for kethane. not counting the tanks that the lift craft itself uses. it's alot easier, and a bit lighter to just carry one tank of a universal resource to a station that has all the separate tanks needed.

additionally, for a base, the base would need to have storage for all 4 fuel forms (might as well consider LFO one fuel for these purposes), and be capable of supplying a good deal of power to the converter, and the converter itself. this means at least another 3 fairly large modules for the base, more probably 4 or 5 smaller ones and a large gen station, each having to either land very close to the base, or be capable of moving themselves. that sounds like a PITA to me.

a station, on the other hand, can easily contain all the needed functions in a single craft, merely needing to be supplied with kethane. it's alot simpler to make something that just parks itself in space, and doesn't need to land.

[Diazo]

Okay. This is really a development question, but I don't see a KAS development thread on the first few pages of that sub-forum so I'm posting this here.

I'm attempting to make my Velocity control mod KAS compatible, specifically sky-cranes. In order to this this I need to know the vessel ID's that a crane connects to so I can calculate the mass of the load being carried.

In order to not make KAS a dependency, I was hoping to do this through the default PartModule interface somehow but I'm having no luck.

I do see the GetWinchModuleGrabbed() and KASModuleWinch GetConnectedWinch(Part p) methods in the KAS_Shared.cs module but to use those would require linking to KAS as a dependency, which is what I'm looking to avoid.

I am out of other ideas however so asking here is my last resort before I accept that I will need to call those methods in order to get the information I'm after. (I suspect that is why they exist based on their name, all that's giving me pause is the dependency requirement.)

Any ideas?

D.

[Galane]

Could you make two version of the VVC mod? One that works with KAS to support undocked but attached loads and requires KAS, and one that doesn't work with or require KAS.