Inline advanced stabilizer and Inline reaction wheel confusion in v0.22

[lajoswinkler]

I see 0.22 still has the same parts and the same properties.

Obviously every command piece, whether it's pod or probe, has onboard computer and weak rection wheels. While I understand the need for additional torque, supplied by Inline Reaction Wheel , why do we need an additional part (Inline Advanced Stabilizer ) with onboard computer?

What does it do that capsules and probes (with IRW attached) can not? In understand the difference between those two parts, but I fail to see the need for the latter.

Please, use the new nomenclature to avoid confusion. No SAS and ASAS, just forget about those names. It's October 2013, v0.22.

ANSWER

IAS is an obsolete part that exists only to avoid breaking the older saves. If you need more torque, use IRW. All probe cores, remote units and capsules already have the SAS function built in.

Edited October 17, 2013 by lajoswinkler

[Godot]

IIRC IAS are the ones that help you stabilize your craft ... that is, the behavior you get when you toggle "T"

(with other words, if you are rolling and toggle "T", the roll of a spacecraft that is equipped with one or more IAS pods is stopped faster than that of a spacecraft that isn´t equipped with one).

In contrast to this IRS help you move (i.e. initiating a roll with WASDEQ)

[lajoswinkler]

As I've said, every capsule, probe and remote guidance unit already has that ability. It spins, you press T, it stops spinning.

The magnitude of the ability depends on the power of its reaction wheels.

The question is still unanswered.

[astropapi1]

As I've said, every capsule, probe and remote guidance unit already has that ability. It spins, you press T, it stops spinning.

The magnitude of the ability depends on the power of its reaction wheels.

The question is still unanswered.

They kept it because it would ruin people's designs if they removed. It serves no particular use, just like the nosecone ASAS from 0.21.

[maltesh]

When the change was made in 0.21, the answer was "backwards compatibility with 0.20-era craft."

Also, the EAS-1 External Command Seat doesn't have torque or onboard computer, though spacecraft built with the seat that can't get what they need from probe pods are probably rare.

[DMagic]

I too was disappointed to see that these parts weren't updated. The IAS continues to have no real purpose except not breaking old .craft files. It is heavier than the the IRW and provides the same torque, no one should use this on any new crafts. They also didn't change the big ASAS wheel, it is still the lightest of the three reaction wheel parts (which does make some sense if it is going to provide the same amount of torque).

I'll update my SAS tutorial later, but for the most part the SAS system seems to function similar to how it did in 0.21.

Edited October 17, 2013 by DMagic

[lajoswinkler]

They kept it because it would ruin people's designs if they removed. It serves no particular use, just like the nosecone ASAS from 0.21.

That is quaint, but it's no way forward for KSP. They will eventually need to remove it.

I wish they would just put an info on wiki or the in-game description. KSP is getting so hard for beginners. Too much confusion.

When the change was made in 0.21, the answer was "backwards compatibility with 0.20-era craft."

Also, the EAS-1 External Command Seat doesn't have torque or onboard computer, though spacecraft built with the seat that can't get what they need from probe pods are probably rare.

Still, not a valid reason.

I could ignore it if there was an explanation provided. This way it's like I'm OCDing with it.

I too was disappointed to see that these parts weren't updated. The IAS continues to have no real purpose except not breaking old .craft files. It is heavier than the the IRS and provides the same torque, no one should use this on any new crafts. They also didn't change the big ASAS wheel, it is still the lightest of the three reaction wheel parts (which does make some sense if it is going to provide the same amount of torque).

I'll update my SAS tutorial later, but for the most part the SAS system seems to function similar to how it did in 0.21.

Without explanation, people will continue to use it and then the compatibility argument will drag on for ages. That's not how game development should go.

Edited October 17, 2013 by lajoswinkler

[DMagic]

Without explanation, people will continue to use it and then the compatibility argument will drag on for ages. That's not how game development should go.

I'm not sure, but I think they changed the in-game part description to reflect that it provides torque; I don't think they fixed that for the 0.21.1 update.

And I agree, they should either get rid of this part or repurpose it like they did with the avionics nose cone.

[sgt_flyer]

Isn't torque force based on the part's weight (in addition to the torque values) ?

In this case, the heavier part gives slightly more torque force in the end.

[DMagic]

Isn't torque force based on the part's weight (in addition to the torque values) ?

Not that I know of, I've never heard that mentioned before. If that were true the cupola and MK2 command pod should give huge amounts of torque (4.5 and 4 tons compared to 0.3 for the IRW and torque values of 9, 15, and 20, respectively), which I haven't noticed.

[lajoswinkler]

Maximum torque is specified in the details of each SAS-able part and is constant.

[TMS]

Without explanation, people will continue to use it and then the compatibility argument will drag on for ages. That's not how game development should go.

Agreed.

The best solution would have been to leave it there as a file, but put some condition in there that stops it from appearing as a selectable part in the VAB/SPH (thus slowly filtering out it's use), then remove completely at 1.0 release.

[Death Engineering]

Or make the IAS like a "lite" version of the Large Advanced S.A.S Module. Then again, I may be completely off base what the IAS really does. Does the IAS operate control surfaces and RCS to maintain heading?

[DMagic]

Or make the IAS like a "lite" version of the Large Advanced S.A.S Module. Then again, I may be completely off base what the IAS really does. Does the IAS operate control surfaces and RCS to maintain heading?

That's not quite right, see my tutorial for more details. Every command pod, cockpit, probe core, the IRW, IAS, and large ASAS operates every control surface, gimbal, RCS thruster and reaction wheel.

[Bobhendly]

So.. Whats the confusion? The old "SAS and ASAS" Parts are obsolete, but stay for compatibility.. Thats all there is to it!

I like how they repurpoused the old plane nosecone to do science.

[DMagic]

Well, the old SAS part, the gray wheel now called the inline reaction wheel is definitely not obsolete, it has a very useful purpose. And the large ASAS module could use a name change and some tweaking, but it's ok too. The only obsolete part is the old 1.25m ASAS part, now called the inline advanced stabilizer.

And I just had an idea. That part could easily be repurposed as another inline science part, just like the nose cone. Maybe some kind of sample storage container, or experiment holder, so that multiple experiments could be stored without adding more of the bigger science modules. It makes more sense than it's current, useless state.

[Bobhendly]

..That.. Thats a fantastic idea!

[Deusoverkill]

Well, the old SAS part, the gray wheel now called the inline reaction wheel is definitely not obsolete, it has a very useful purpose. And the large ASAS module could use a name change and some tweaking, but it's ok too. The only obsolete part is the old 1.25m ASAS part, now called the inline advanced stabilizer.

And I just had an idea. That part could easily be repurposed as another inline science part, just like the nose cone. Maybe some kind of sample storage container, or experiment holder, so that multiple experiments could be stored without adding more of the bigger science modules. It makes more sense than it's current, useless state.

or it could (Inline Advanced Stabilizer) be refurbished to work as one of the old ones used to work; I mean, stabilizing the ship without changing its heading, because that was so usefull when making small angle corrections in a lander. the new RCS`s are fine, but hoovering with precision is a bit harder now. unles there`s some hidden feature i dont know yet that does that with the 0.22 RCS`s.

Cheers!