I am disappointed that there is no science in Sandbox mode

[paleorob]

Why is everybody crying about a feature that doesn't harm them in any way? You can ignore it if you want to.

I can't ignore the fact that it isn't there.

For me putting science in Sandbox diminishes the impact of doing science in Career. It would "harm" my enjoyment of the game because anything I did in Career would essentially be meaningless from a game standpoint.

[Kerbart]

Well you can still "do" science with the science components. They just don't produce science points which have no use in sandbox mode anyway.

[paleorob]

I think, also, that as things get charted "maximum" science values for experiments will be known for given locations. That will allow sandbox players who want to keep score the ability to do so.

[Beachernaut]

I fail to see, then, why you're opposed to granting them in sandbox? The infrastructure is already there. There is no additional cost to opening it up in sandbox.

Oh, I'm not opposed, in reality I don't really care either way. However, I do enjoy a good discussion. I chose this side of the discussion because I haven't yet seen a good reason to add the points into sandbox. OTOH, the reason I think it could be detrimental is as paleorob stated above. It pretty much invalidates the entire career mode.

No, because most of the science is already done.

Not quite sure I'm following this train of thought. The very nature of the science points is diminishing returns on repeated experiments under the same conditions. So you're talking about what... a few flights before it's all completed anyway?

[samstarman5]

Think of it this way, it gives you the experience of playing the early alpha builds with a purpose, as you pretty much start CM with much the same parts. I would really recommend giving it a go and gain some experience in it before making judgments on it.

Well you can still "do" science with the science components. They just don't produce science points which have no use in sandbox mode anyway.

Precisely. The whole point of a sandbox mode is to have everything at your fingertips to do whatever you want. Otherwise, it is well worth it to just go to Career mode and give a shot at the challenge of the limitations it gives you. Not having access to batteries or solar panels at the get-go really forces you to manage your craft and what transmissions you can send.

One thing to bear in mind is the tech tree is going to get tweaked with further updates to help get it further balanced, as well as due to more parts being added. What you experience now with career mode is nowhere near what the final product will be. We have a grand moment of experiencing so much of this part of the game that others will not experience. Not trying out career mode now is just silly, frankly.

Edited October 17, 2013 by samstarman5

[air805ronin]

Why is everybody crying about a feature that doesn't harm them in any way? You can ignore it if you want to.

I can't ignore the fact that it isn't there.

Why are you uninterested in playing career mode? Because you're limited in the choices of parts for your ships? I can understand that. From the screenshots I saw science parts and experiements are in sandbox, you just don't get points or flavor text for them. You're crying about that. Over and over.

If you look at my posts I haven't dismissed your idea at all, I've just pointed out that making it work for a sandbox type game might take a bit more thought. Could it be neat to have "high science score" challenge missions? Sure. Is there a real point to doing science in sandbox? No. There is almost NO point. It has a point in career because you use the science to advance technology and unlock new parts. In career it is an actual gameplay mechanic. The only point it would address in sandbox is to give people the option to get a "high score" aspect, and to allow you to enjoy the flavor text (which I think they should have left alone as some of it can be quite funny).

And I'm sure a mod can be created to give you back both in sandbox...

[Dizzle]

A lot of people here missing the point. There is no reason not to have flavor text in Sandbox, and that's the problem. It's really immersion breaking for people that want to roleplay.

[samstarman5]

Not quite sure I'm following this train of thought. The very nature of the science points is diminishing returns on repeated experiments under the same conditions. So you're talking about what... a few flights before it's all completed anyway?

Hardly. It has taken me five flights alone to get all of the tier 3, and that has only opened up landing on the Mun and Minmus. I can possibly do flybys of the other planets with the tech I have achieved, but it would require some ridiculous builds and extreme hope that I gave myself enough power, as I have not opened solar panels or the nuclear generator which I am sure is still way down the line, yet. Don't sell the efforts of Squad so short when they haven't before. Otherwise you are just doing harm to your enjoyment of this game. Try it out for a day and then decide.

[Psycix]

The only reason I am arguing is because I don't see any reason for disabling it while I see a few applications that may benefit from enabling it. I might not even use the feature myself, but I think it is simply a weird call to disable it for those who want to.

Perhaps I'm crying about it, but I'm merely responding to people who think it should be disabled without giving a proper reason.

I'm out of this thread.

[Elemental]

Yeah I would like to see the experiment flavor text in sandbox.

I ran some experiments and saw the message and shook my head. Even if it is not used for unlocking and such the text of running the experiment should still be there.

[Beachernaut]

Hardly. It has taken me five flights alone to get all of the tier 3, and that has only opened up landing on the Mun and Minmus. I can possibly do flybys of the other planets with the tech I have achieved, but it would require some ridiculous builds and extreme hope that I gave myself enough power, as I have not opened solar panels or the nuclear generator which I am sure is still way down the line, yet. Don't sell the efforts of Squad so short when they haven't before. Otherwise you are just doing harm to your enjoyment of this game. Try it out for a day and then decide.

I've only played .22 career for a half hour or so, and am feeling the pinch for power generation in my flights. I will admit, "a few flights" may be simplistic, but I was referring to gathering those points in sandbox mode. Since everything is unlocked in sandbox, how many flights do you think it would take to perform much of the science? I'd imagine you can complete nearly all of the science in Kerbin's SOI in 1 or 2 flights.

I'm not trying to sell their efforts short. On the contrary, I think their efforts are part of the reason why points are not available in sandbox. Thinking about this discussion from the developer's standpoint, it makes complete sense. They've been listening to the community clamor for a career mode for quite a while. So they take the time and put in the work to give us what we ask for, and along the way they choose not to implement a part for sandbox that basically makes much of their career work mute. That may or may not be part of the reason, but it is a valid theory.

Edit: Ok, I may have been going at this from the wrong angle. I agree with getting the flavor text, but I don't think the science points should be included.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Beachernaut

[BostLabs]

You can't spend points in the game Tetris either. So there is no point for them, right?

Why is it bad if points are there? Just existing. Simply "being there" for those who are interested in them.

Nobody has to take note if they don't want to.

(Head scratch). Are you wanting the science points for a pseudo high score for bragging rights?

Not my thing in sandbox mode, but whatever. I'm not competing against anyone in the sandbox. But, I'll would guess it could be something that you could enable via the config file.

[Stealth2668]

Science does not become pointless even if you have all the parts unlocked in sandbox. It would still be cool to do the experiments and get results. It's sort of a roleplaying thing, and I don't understand why anyone would be against that.

But, once you unlock everything in career you have a sandbox with science no? Or are there less parts in career? (haven't unlocked much yet)

[air805ronin]

But, once you unlock everything in career you have a sandbox with science no? Or are there less parts in career? (haven't unlocked much yet)

All the same parts, just split into unlock tiers.

I don't really get the roleplay argument as I would think roleplaying would be better served by career mode....

[Stealth2668]

All the same parts, just split into unlock tiers.

I don't really get the roleplay argument as I would think roleplaying would be better served by career mode....

Exaclty. They basically want career without the tech tree, since everything is unlocked. Might as well just add a "disable tech tree" option to sandbox. If you wanna roleplay, career is a more realistic way of playing.

[rasheed]

...

If theres science in sandbox it would ruin the fun IMO.

And starting from scratch is really fun.

[axxo2]

Why?

The fact that you have no desire for it doesn't mean nobody should be able to.

To me you sound like this: "I don't use spaceplanes so they should be cut from the game."

Why limit something for other people simply because you do not wish to use that yourself?

relax mate, why so hostile? think about it !! WHAT incentive would you have to do experiments in sandbox mode???? ok you did an experiment with the goo and what next? huh?

doing it in the carrier mode makes much sense and is not limiting anything ! you just progress and advance with more parts and do things you have never done and all without mods- which is great so suck it up buttercup ITS good in carrier mode untill they figure out how to implement it into the sandbox mode

[johnnyhandsome]

...And starting from scratch is really fun.

This has been proven to be untrue and I question your medical credentials for even suggesting it.

[Guest Brody_Peffley]

This has been proven to be untrue and I question your medical credentials for even suggesting it.

It is. Unless you cheat in other games. You just proven that you cheat on any other games like cod or orbitor. That starting a rocket isn't fun, That you have to have people build your rocket..

And who knows? Maybe we'll have sandbox in career mode

Edited October 17, 2013 by Brody_Peffley

[nismobg]

Exaclty. They basically want career without the tech tree, since everything is unlocked. Might as well just add a "disable tech tree" option to sandbox. If you wanna roleplay, career is a more realistic way of playing.

Good idea on the Toggle Option, maybe at start of game. Sandbox should have all game options/mode etc included, even if its just for the random science texts. I am seriously playing this game 90% because of the mods, and now with the way the tech tree is implemented adding mods might be a pain and by the rate mods evolve it will be a pure madness if you are a custom to a bunch of mods at the same time. Like I said I personally would love to play the career mode, but with the option to use all the mods "I like"at least till the game is more refined. Science does not bring playability of the game as of right now, mods like : Kethane, Ioncross, Achievements, Mapping mods and so on are the main drive for me, so just enable the science text discoveries(not the tech tree) so people can have fun. The majority of players are playing Sandbox Mode anyways. Career should have been renamed tutorial and merged with those tutorials we already have, till the actual career mode is more refined.

Maybe a small idea for future updates , why not spice up the tech tree for example: end teirs with new planets/moons/solar systems orbits or other physical objects and not parts only.

[BostLabs]

This has been proven to be untrue and I question your medical credentials for even suggesting it.

OBJECTION!!! (Too lazy to find the image. Heheheh)

i start from scratch on each update of KSP. And I have fun doing it.

AND he looks like a doctor to me.

[johnnyhandsome]

It is. Unless you cheat in other games. You just proven that you cheat on any other games like cod or orbitor.

No, this has been rigorously tested in double blind studies. Repeatedly doing the same thing over and over is not fun, unless it involves eating pizza or alone with a significant other. Possibly re-watching The Walking Dead. But not starting from scratch in KSP, though admittedly it is somewhat of a significant other

[Guest Brody_Peffley]

No, this has been rigorously tested in double blind studies. Repeatedly doing the same thing over and over is not fun, unless it involves eating pizza or alone with a significant other. Possibly re-watching The Walking Dead. But not starting from scratch in KSP, though admittedly it is somewhat of a significant other

So why you playing kerbal space program? You keep on repeating, Building rockets e.t.c.

[CoriW]

Alright so here's my take on Science in Sandbox... I feel like rather than experiments saying that they're pointless when you do them, I would prefer if they kept the experiment text in Sandbox mode, for example "The goo feels right at home here", etc.

As for actual Science points in Sandbox mode, I don't really see the need for myself, but that's just me. Honestly I tried Career mode and got really bored really quick because of not having all the parts, but I still want experiments to give me the experiment text. So I'm just going to hack in enough points to fill the tech tree and problem solved! Sandbox mode... WITH SCIENCE!

For me, I think that I'll probably legitimately try Career mode when it's complete with science, money, missions, etc. but for now I'll just stick to my "Sandbox with Science".

[johnnyhandsome]

So why you playing kerbal space program? You keep on repeating, Building rockets e.t.c

I do not understand your question. Having already learned how to launch a rocket, several rockets and lift multiple tons into orbit, I see no value in proving to the game that I can put a single manned spacecraft into orbit. That's just silly and if you'd like at my calculations, you'd know this to be true.