JewelShisen

[Airships in 1.3] HooliganLabs Mods

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... of course, if someone wanted to take a shot at getting this to work with .90 in any existing putter time, I would offer funds for a few mochas. >.> I've discovered I like a number of mods which haven't been updated for 1.0 yet and don't appear to be in line to be. A jump drive system, volumetric clouds and so on.

I think still have the last version that was on Curse. If not I have the link to it.

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I noticed this mod was added to the CKAN repo, used it back in 0.90 and loved it. Glad I took a look in the thread though, knowing the author doesn't want to allow CKAN listing allows me to make a more informed decisions on whether to install or not.

As to the debate over laziness: I can only speak for myself but KSP is a game for me, not a way of life. I have limited time to play games in a week, I choose not to spend more time than absolutely necessary to make sure the (currently) 74 mods I wish to use are up to date.

Loved the mod in the past, would be great if the author reconsidered. If not, still admire the work done.

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I honestly find it rather odd just how many people are saying that my decision to not allow the mod onto CKAN is grounds to stop using the mod. I mean I respect their decision but it still makes no sense to me at all.

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Whats really funny is they will spend the time to more less threaten to not use the mod because of that lol to funny but they can't spend the time to update and really the number of mods people use don't say much as my guess there looking at how many folders or what CKAN is telling them which is my guess folders but how many are just plugins ? really people the number don't mean much.

EDIT- lol I have 28 installs and 88 folders in one lol

EDIT- @plague006 I find it very rude of you CKAN people posting all over the threads about CKAN not work right or because the modder don't use CKAN your not using the mod because your little time is worth more then there's after they have spent there little time modelling and writing cfg for all us to play with how rude of you people.

Edited by Mecripp2

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Hey JewelShisen (and maybe Hooligan), are you aware of this mod? Might give you some ideas.

I had not seen that but it looks rather interesting actually.

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@plague006 I find it very rude of you CKAN people posting all over the threads about CKAN not work right or because the modder don't use CKAN your not using the mod because your little time is worth more then there's after they have spent there little time modelling and writing cfg for all us to play with how rude of you people.

It's the internet, people offer their opinions in an effort to see change they want. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobbying and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion

As to the rest you're just straw-manning me: I never said my time > anyone else's, I never said whether I was using the mod or not, I said I was able to make an informed decision.

If you, modders, or anyone else are offended by me (or others) lobbying for changes we want to see in mods or elsewhere: cool. I support your right to be offended. I tried to be as neutral and respectful as I could while offering my point of view, but it's the internet: I'm used to everyone getting offended by everything or considering everything rude.

I honestly find it rather odd just how many people are saying that my decision to not allow the mod onto CKAN is grounds to stop using the mod. I mean I respect their decision but it still makes no sense to me at all.

I honestly find it rather odd to opt out of a system that benefits end users. I mean I respect your decision fully but it still makes no sense to me at all. Keep up the good work though, it's a fun mod.

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I am in need of help to rebuild and recode the HL Mods to work in 1.0.2 and to get the Airships off of needing Toolbar in favor of the stock one.

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I am in need of help to rebuild and recode the HL Mods to work in 1.0.2 and to get the Airships off of needing Toolbar in favor of the stock one.

I got this... will get back to you when done.

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I recently updated to KSP 1.0.2... the serodynamic changes are nowhere near as bad as I thought they would be. Even better, Hooligan works now! Thank you for your hard work in keeping this mod alive!

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KAS anchor doesn't seem to register with the Hooligan Labs system. It acts... Weird.

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is it possible to save in Jool's atmosphere?

thats kinda the only thing keeping from using this mod.

Currently it is not as the core game requires a ship to either be in orbit or landed. That however is a planned feature if a way around it can be found. At one time KAS could be used to 'fake' the landing but i am not sure with the newest version.

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Airships are not working for me (I can't open envelopes) How can I make this work properly?

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Airships are not working for me (I can't open envelopes) How can I make this work properly?

Do you have toolbar? It is required for the GUI to be there to make it all work.

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Concerning the saving airships in flight:

The landed problem is easy. From what I remember looking at the airship source, Hooligan already had a bit to force the game to consider an airship as landed. From there you just add in a way to root the airship in place (KAS/KIS attach to ground works by creating a static invisible part in place and connecting to that, not actually creating a join with the ground, so it could work in flight) and you can make a static "floating" ship you can safely scene change away from.

The hard part comes from something I think taniwha wrote but I can't remember for sure (seems logical enough anyway). Apparently when a vessel loads the game engine will compensate for save file rounding errors in the location data by adjusting the vessel's position to as close to the ground as it can (this is where vessel load jumping comes from, a fraction of the ship gets shifted underground). So to make an airship that will stay in the sky between scene changes would require disabling this adjustment, which I have no suggestions as to where to start.

Effectively impossible would be letting airships stay in flight while unloaded. That's not a good idea even if you could trick the on rails calculations to work while ignoring the "crash" condition.

I'd take a crack at it myself but I still haven't gotten around to setting up a dev environment to work with, and lack the time to do it.

But if someone does take over I'll gladly point out the bits I've figured out.

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Question to the author: will we see drag correctly accounted with inflatable airship parts (Cirrus, Ray, Una)?

Currently those have dragModelType set to override instead of default, so KSP does not use dragcubes with them (it goes with values from their config files, if I'm guessing right).

Of course as size changes with those parts, so must the drag cubes, but (if I'm guessing it right as well) this may be possible to achieve by calling the DragCubeSystem RenderProceduralDragCube() method during flight.

Of course without correct drag, airships will perform in a unbelievable way, and allow some absurd ones fly.

With a cirrus drag is low enough to allow this craft to gain speed, and have enough effect on the control surfaces at the tail to change attitude as desired. No drag is shown with the cirrus itself (had the Physics/Aero/"Display Aero data" to show with the action menu). Total drag shown in the panel on the left gives the craft total.

QDgYGLm.png

With a fixed envelope drag is computed correctly. This craft below can't speed up due to high drag, and it shows the drag coming mostly from the envelope (50.61 out of 59.209 total).

QxLTbCR.png

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Question to the author: will we see drag correctly accounted with inflatable airship parts (Cirrus, Ray, Una)?

Currently those have dragModelType set to override instead of default, so KSP does not use dragcubes with them (it goes with values from their config files, if I'm guessing right).

Of course as size changes with those parts, so must the drag cubes, but (if I'm guessing it right as well) this may be possible to achieve by calling the DragCubeSystem RenderProceduralDragCube() method during flight.

Of course without correct drag, airships will perform in a unbelievable way, and allow some absurd ones fly.

With a cirrus drag is low enough to allow this craft to gain speed, and have enough effect on the control surfaces at the tail to change attitude as desired. No drag is shown with the cirrus itself (had the Physics/Aero/"Display Aero data" to show with the action menu). Total drag shown in the panel on the left gives the craft total.

http://i.imgur.com/QDgYGLm.png

With a fixed envelope drag is computed correctly. This craft below can't speed up due to high drag, and it shows the drag coming mostly from the envelope (50.61 out of 59.209 total).

http://i.imgur.com/QxLTbCR.png

Fascinating! I'd never actually looked into that to be honest so I will have to mess about with it. Perhaps I need to alter the inflatable ones to use the parachute type drag models to account for changing size.

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Does anyone have the old Landing Platforms files lying around somewhere?

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Does anyone have the old Landing Platforms files lying around somewhere?

Pretty sure I still have them.

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Pretty sure I still have them.

Cool. Is there any chance for them to be uploaded again, since they're pretty damn nice?

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Cool. Is there any chance for them to be uploaded again, since they're pretty damn nice?

I will need to test and make sure the don't explode the planet/universe/computer first

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I will need to test and make sure the don't explode the planet/universe/computer first

Alright, I'll be patient.

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