[science] decouple mistery goo

[lesto]

Hi,

my question is: can i saftely decouple some "full" mistery goo with a parachute before completing my orbit/before reentry, so when i'll be back they will be with me on kerbal and give me science point?

(i'm going to try anyway)

[Apophis775]

I hope so. I'm designing a ship based which has "science missiles" as I'm calling them, which are guided rockets that I return to Kerbin with after using all their science modules so I can recover them.

[Kromey]

Not if you stay in orbit, nope -- the game will consider it "debris" and once it leaves 2.5 Km from your active vessel, will go onto rails; at that point when it drops under 25 Km altitude (I'm not 100% certain this is the precise cut-off point...) the game will simply delete it from your universe altogether.

You can put a probe core onto your goo and parachute that down, however you'd want to switch active vessels to it and follow that all the way to the surface before returning to your orbiting craft, otherwise it will again just go onto rails and get deleted. (You might be able to do this sans the probe core, I've been able to occasionally switch to "debris" like this, but it seems unreliable and each new version has made this rarer and rarer for me -- so I wouldn't count on it!)

One thing you can do is to detach and parachute science stuffs alongside your own descent. So long as everything stays within that 2.5 Km physics limit of your active vessel, this can work to bring back multiple separate modules. I haven't actually found a use-case for this yet, although it is a pretty neat way to quickly land multiple base modules on an atmospheric world like Laythe, Duna, or Eve.

[lesto]

if this is not implemented, it definetly should.In your case, if you have the tech you can add a ummaned pods, so you can check and correct flight path, but this is definetly something very usefull for beginner (in tree tech and skill) like me

[phunk]

I think they'll need to have a probe core or some other remote control attached so they aren't just treated as debris and deleted on reentry.

[Apophis775]

Yea, that's what I'm doing phunk. I thought he meant, like, will it keep the science.

[lesto]

i don't have probes, i'm just at the first leaves of the science tree!! uff :/

i want to do without probes, just attaching them to my boster and pre-orbit stage.

I always want to recover as much as possible for every flight, because i feel like the kerbal doesn't care to reuse thing, and i hope this will give you back some money, when they'll be implementet.

Thay way money back + science = kickstart in early mission.

[FITorion]

I don't think you can just attach a parachute to it and call it good.

You'd need a probe and a battery as well... and you'd need to either keep it within 2.5 km of your main craft as it's landing or land it separately ... meaning watching it the whole way down... which would mean your other craft would be deleted if it too were landing...

If you want to do it separately then you'd need to separate in orbit... Then you'd need a way to deorbit each thing individually. For something small like the goo, a probe, a battery, and a parachute... a RCS tank and thruster should do.

Do all that and the science in the goo experiment will survive.

[Spaps]

So, in a few words: You have to decouple it, deorbit and parachute it when focusing on it all the time.

[borisvolodnikov]

Were it not for the fact that you need some sort of remote control (as others have suggested, a probe core) to fire the parachute off (it'll vaporize when it hits the surface otherwise), you could just decouple it whilst dipping into Kerbin's atmosphere just enough to make the orbit decay, and keep focus on it (via the tracking station or otherwise), and it would be good to go.

I can confirm that "debris" that consists of science parts do provide science when they are recovered from the tracking station screen (noticed this when I inadvertently crashed one of my science "sounding rockets" at low speed into the ocean just outside of KSC).

[Caelib]

I completed career mode and never actually realized that decoupling these meant losing the data. IMO, this needs to be changed because choosing "Keep Data" should transfer to the command module and not the part itself -- forcing re-entry with these parts is non-intuitive and non-player-friendly.

[blizzy78]

I completed career mode and never actually realized that decoupling these meant losing the data. IMO, this needs to be changed because choosing "Keep Data" should transfer to the command module and not the part itself -- forcing re-entry with these parts is non-intuitive and non-player-friendly.

That would mean the Goo and the Materials Lab stuff would have to be stored in the capsule, so that you can land with the stuff. Player-friendly or not, it does make sense as it is.

[Caelib]

That would mean the Goo and the Materials Lab stuff would have to be stored in the capsule, so that you can land with the stuff. Player-friendly or not, it does make sense as it is.

Well, that's still doesn't make sense to me that you're performing experiments but keeping the results in a separate area? I'm talking about logical, not game-limits. It doesn't seem like a reasonable expectation to de-orbit/return these parts to get credit ... especially since it's just DATA. Consider how EVA Reports, Crew Reports and Surface Samples work now ... why can't these other parts work the same way (be associate with the command module instead of their respective "part")?

And not to mention the fact that these parts wouldn't be able to survive atmospheric re-entry.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Caelib

[lesto]

We know for sure "data" is valued only 50% of the experiment, the rest of 50% is given by "sample".

We can say that capsule computers can only store a limited amount of data, and that's why you can only store one report for every "important point" of the trip.

Maybe a "store in capsule" with a bit more of the transmit penality is fair. or maybe an "storage space" part

but because science is IMPORTANT to me, i would like if debris with attached (and loaded) science doesn't get deleted, but instead correctly computed.

Maybe a "fire and forget" will never be possible.

With probe it should actually work, as they are seen as separate (and landed) missin from the space hub

[Caelib]

For me, the problem is that the game mechanics are interfering with what I consider to be intuitive -- for example, this necessity to return the science containers means that water-landings aren't possible because they break off as soon as you come into contact with any water; this seems absurd to me.

So I guess what I'm trying to convey is that there are some conflicting functionality hindering gameplay.

[Taki117]

I like the idea of a "Fire and forget" system, but the way I design all my "Science-y Ships" now is I have each science module attached to the command pod and placed in an Action Group so that I can do lots of science all at once (Useful when doing a gravity slingshot around the Mun) and then just before I get ready to leave I do one last Science gather, return to Kerbin, and land with enough chutes so that everything stays together so that when I recover the vessel I get all the science I had collected.

[J.Random]

For me, the problem is that the game mechanics are interfering with what I consider to be intuitive -- for example, this necessity to return the science containers means that water-landings aren't possible because they break off as soon as you come into contact with any water; this seems absurd to me.

So I guess what I'm trying to convey is that there are some conflicting functionality hindering gameplay.

If they just break off, you can retrieve them later from tracking station (and still get science for them). But often they get destroyed completely - that's where splashdown becomes a problem.

[FoxKit]

For me, the problem is that the game mechanics are interfering with what I consider to be intuitive -- for example, this necessity to return the science containers means that water-landings aren't possible because they break off as soon as you come into contact with any water; this seems absurd to me.

So I guess what I'm trying to convey is that there are some conflicting functionality hindering gameplay.

I've splashed down plenty with science containers attached. Either build your lander wide enough that they don't hit the water directly, or splash down at less than 5 m/s. They're just really delicate, but that's part of the challenge, isn't it? n.n

[Canuckguy77]

Hi guys, I decided to test this a little. We already know once debris is out of the 2.5km range and going down it is automatically deleted. Even with persistent debri on, once on "rails" its gone.

What I did was put a goo and a radial chute on a radial decoupler. I then deorbited my vessel to 30km Periapsis, released the decoupler(firing the chute in the same stage), then raised my vessel Periapsis back up to 70km. Then I switched over to the "Debri" with the goo/chute and watched it go down. The chute deployed normally and I was able to recover the science after it landed nice and softly

So it is possible, just boring as you have to watch it all the way down.

I'll try another test later releasing a bunch at the same time to see if they all survive. They should as long as they're all within the 2.5km limit eh?

[KerbMav]

Nice workaround.

I'll try another test later releasing a bunch at the same time to see if they all survive. They should as long as they're all within the 2.5km limit eh?

If they all stay within 2.5km, yes - but as soon as an atmosphere is involved ...

Better wait until they are below 2km from ground level and split them there.

[aven17]

The easy solutions are to either create a controllable dropstage for them that you can jettison, descend and land manually from a stabilized orbit, or just transmit the data.

[FITorion]

For me, the problem is that the game mechanics are interfering with what I consider to be intuitive -- for example, this necessity to return the science containers means that water-landings aren't possible because they break off as soon as you come into contact with any water; this seems absurd to me.

So I guess what I'm trying to convey is that there are some conflicting functionality hindering gameplay.

Sorry... but it sounds like your problem is your design... I've had many splash downs and ground landings. I've never had the science parts break off or be destroyed.

[borisvolodnikov]

For me, the problem is that the game mechanics are interfering with what I consider to be intuitive -- for example, this necessity to return the science containers means that water-landings aren't possible because they break off as soon as you come into contact with any water; this seems absurd to me.

So I guess what I'm trying to convey is that there are some conflicting functionality hindering gameplay.

Don't hit the water so hard!

[Caelib]

Exposing science experiments to re-entry and water is counter-intuitive of space exploration.

[KerbMav]

Exposing science experiments to re-entry and water is counter-intuitive of space exploration.

Depends on insulation and quality of putty used.