Starwaster

[1.6.1] Deadly Reentry v7.7.2, May somethingth, 2019 (The Rachel Edition)

Recommended Posts

And, yes, I would say for cryogenics it will probably be important if you want to keep your fuels in the tanks instead of watching it float by as frozen crystals.

And excess internal heat could be important in other areas that we've talked about, so yeah radiators will be 'a thing'.

Good to hear, can't wait to see where KSP is headed now with this and ferrams nuFAR, looks like R.O is gonna get a whole lot more R.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How do you reckon the skin thing will turn out in non-reentry situations?

Like, putting an ISRU refinery and drill down somewhere. Right now these parts have a giant heat output - they easily overpower an entire spacecraft's ability to radiate heat. In such a situation, if the future version of Deadly Reentry is installed, will the refinery be even more heat congested because the skin as an additional "layer" slows down the heat exchange of the craft with its surroundings? Will it be less congested, because the skin is able to radiate heat much better?

Things like LV-N engines also have issues surviving long burns now (and LV-N burns generally tend to be long). Depending on whether or not Deadly Reentry changes the ability of spacecraft to reject large amounts of internal heat, and whether that change is positive or negative, that could have gameplay balance implications. It could really nerf the LV-N hard, or be a giant boon to refinery stations... what do you think it's gonna be? :)

In actual practice it shouldn't make much difference. If the interior heat does start to build up it will send more and more flux to the surface until the two are in equilibrium. If it gets really high, well, radiant flux gets a lot higher because it's temp^4 * surface area.

If there are problem parts then it will probably pay to increase the conduction factor. And realistically, heat from NTRs is something that would need to be dealt with through radiators. If we make them Brayton radiators then they can generate electricity as they shed excess heat

Near Future Electrical has always shipped radiators for its fission reactors, and they will indeed be fully compatible with the new thermodynamics once the mod updates. They should in fact be active heatsinks, even (though I'm not privy to the implementation details, that's up to Nertea). Who knows, they might offer what you're looking for - though it'll be a few more days until the Near Future suite updates.

I can't see a fission reactor's temperature being anything but higher than other parts, regardless of respective stored heat capacity, heat will always flow from hotter parts to cooler. They're more likely to be sources of excess heat.

Edited by Starwaster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RIP deadly reentry mod. But this was amazing until ksp added reentry heat... wow us with more things soon

Uhhhh.... The king is dead, long live the king? I think we just need a few weeks/days until we're re-exploding things WITH STYLE again. Unless i've been misreading the above discussion? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RIP deadly reentry mod. But this was amazing until ksp added reentry heat... wow us with more things soon

No no no no... no no No NO NOOO!!! the stock solution s*** b*** worse than the old stock aerodynamics's vs FAR yeah the aerodynamics where there but they were horrible, just nasty.

1.0 Deadly Re-entry update needed, this is how much the stock heating sucks you can go at 800ms close to the ground but 18 22k up to only go 900 - 1000ms when there is a less than 1/4 the air which makes NO SENSE what so ever.

See theres this slight thing called physics and commen sense 1/4 the air hitting your ship at any given speed should create less roughly loosely 1/4 the heating not 9/10th it can be easily itterated on by squad, and if sqaud has made it easy to mod it should be realityish easy comparing to trying to deactivate everything and put the old DR ontop which did have some problems with cargo bays, fairing and occlusion in general, which don't exist in the model squad made.

Basically all he has to do I would think, I don't claim to know but the basics for the new heating system seem sound so they can work within the existing model for heating just changing the heating at different levels based on air density, ambient temp etc.

Edited by etheoma

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RIP deadly reentry mod. But this was amazing until ksp added reentry heat... wow us with more things soon

It's alright we won't be missing you here. DR will live on with the users that care about realism more than look at my flying contraption that squad physics say can fly weeeeeeeeeeeeeee. I mean I can pull a chute at 1km/s and be fine lolWUT?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't see a fission reactor's temperature being anything but higher than other parts, regardless of respective stored heat capacity, heat will always flow from hotter parts to cooler. They're more likely to be sources of excess heat.

That would be true for passive cooling, for active cooling it can be at ambient or even below, or at least any contact points can be.

I always found the overheating engines thing odd. Why would you design an engine that can't survive it's own heat. Ok I can understand it for when you burn an engine for longer than it is designed to, but a NTR with its low TWR is, or should have been, designed for really long burn times. And I don't think it should transfer heat up the stack at all, any contact points could be cryogenically cooled by the fuel flow.

RIP deadly reentry mod. But this was amazing until ksp added reentry heat... wow us with more things soon

Eh? It's not dead, it's still amazing and will be more so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RIP deadly reentry mod. But this was amazing until ksp added reentry heat... wow us with more things soon

You come in here and say a thing like that and I think one of two things: Either you're just a troll or you just can't be bothered to read.

Take some time and educate yourself before posting. I very CLEARLY laid out this mod's future and why it still HAS a future:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/54954-0-90-Deadly-Reentry-v6-5-3-Beta-Mar-6-2015?p=1870310&viewfull=1#post1870310

READ that.

My work here is not yet finished. Maybe some day Squad will update the system to something where I can retire from Deadly Reentry, but that day has very obviously not arrived.

EDIT:

UPDATE TO ALL:

I was planning to release a lite version earlier as you all know but there's still a little bugginess that I have to work out (especially for space planes and other ablatorless shields)

Additionally, this mod works by overriding certain of KSP's FlightIntegrator methods. All of that work was completed while KSP was still in Experimentals testing. However, as some of you may know, Ferram4 is getting 'nuFAR' ready for release and it too will be overriding FlightIntegrator, and in order to prevent stepping on each other's toes, we're working on a system (common dependency class) to prevent the two mods from interfering with each other.

So I'm going to hold off on release for awhile while we work on that. This will be better for both mods.

Edited by Starwaster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Woot awesome to hear! Remotetech, DR, and nuFAR. My game will finally be released in its fully glory. Can't wait! Damn no RL timewarp <____<

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds great starwaster.

Looking forward to getting back the ability to kook kerbals in professional style..

Ye haw, pass the ranch dressing.

Glad to see it's still going to be support.

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
UPDATE TO ALL:

I was planning to release a lite version earlier as you all know but there's still a little bugginess that I have to work out (especially for space planes and other ablatorless shields)

Additionally, this mod works by overriding certain of KSP's FlightIntegrator methods. All of that work was completed while KSP was still in Experimentals testing. However, as some of you may know, Ferram4 is getting 'nuFAR' ready for release and it too will be overriding FlightIntegrator, and in order to prevent stepping on each other's toes, we're working on a system (common dependency class) to prevent the two mods from interfering with each other.

So I'm going to hold off on release for awhile while we work on that. This will be better for both mods.

Why don't you two collaborate on a single mod handling re-entry and aerodynamics and call it DR. FAR. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why don't you two collaborate on a single mod handling re-entry and aerodynamics and call it DR. FAR. ;)

I can get in bed with this idea, and dat name.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds great Starwaster - glad you and ferram are working together to make these two mods work well together. I use both so I am excited to see what comes out of your partnership.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why don't you two collaborate on a single mod handling re-entry and aerodynamics and call it DR. FAR. ;)

Maybe "Deadly Ferrem Entry Aerodynamics Research" bit of a mouth full but making the acronym "Deadly F.E.A.R." or "D-FEAR" is worth it. Kind of like Strategic Homeland Intervention, Enforcement and Logistics Division.

but no having modular... mods... is better because you can create the game you want because someone might not... Oh wait the default heating sucks and its there now so I suppose you might as well combined the two.

Although the stock aerodynamics are not terrible now in some respects and are a lot more forgiving so someone might want to just use Deadly Re-entry.

Edited by etheoma

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking forward for DRE and FAR again. The stock ones are a bit underwhelming. I've been de-orbiting unprotected ships in stock and they are surviving! DRE would hunt me down and rend me asunder if I ever tried that with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the work Starwaster

That would be true for passive cooling, for active cooling it can be at ambient or even below, or at least any contact points can be.

I always found the overheating engines thing odd. Why would you design an engine that can't survive it's own heat. Ok I can understand it for when you burn an engine for longer than it is designed to, but a NTR with its low TWR is, or should have been, designed for really long burn times. And I don't think it should transfer heat up the stack at all, any contact points could be cryogenically cooled by the fuel flow.

Eh? It's not dead, it's still amazing and will be more so.

Well, NTRs like the NERVA are cooled passively by transferring heat to the fuel, and they work properly because the core is hotter than the surroundings and the cooler is dumped to generate thrust

All engines tend to have overheating limits, they are usually tailored to the mission profile and you can reach a steady state in which the heat sorce (the core) and the sink (the fuel flow and the radiation from the nozzle) are in equilibrium. This is not possible to emulate with KSP current system, since a part can have only one temperature and all those pieces are one.

There are two solutions:

  • letting the engine produce heat and give the player dissipators as a separate part, while maybe adding an inline heat breaker with low conductivity that shields upper part of the stack
  • splitting the core and the engine nozzle into two parts to model them properly, but this causes problems on how to make the module engine work and will take an intermediate dummy resource, as I am pretty sure that engines can't run on LF+heat

EDIT: disregard the above, actually radiation in stock is indeed proportional to the temperature, so by tweaking the heat conductivity and radiationconstant in the engine .cfg is it possible to make an engine that reaches a steady state at a temperature inside its max range

Edited by Sage
Made some tests

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Starwaster, I slapped together something that works with the stock heating last night and released it, but I am not sure about a couple of things.

CoLOffset and CoPOffset. These seem to be to be tied to the geometry of the shields, and last night I just set them to the same values as the stock shields. What are they?

Also, other than the ablator resource itself, I have no idea how the new stock part modules for heating work or what I should set these to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Looking forward for DRE and FAR again. The stock ones are a bit underwhelming. I've been de-orbiting unprotected ships in stock and they are surviving! DRE would hunt me down and rend me asunder if I ever tried that with it.

Heh, I've had the exact opposite problem, with DR as long as I was de-orbiting sensibly, I never had a problem. With stock half the time the capsule flips around and explodes, regardless of my entry profile.

I honestly can't wait to drop it in favour of DR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Heh, I've had the exact opposite problem, with DR as long as I was de-orbiting sensibly, I never had a problem. With stock half the time the capsule flips around and explodes, regardless of my entry profile.

I honestly can't wait to drop it in favour of DR.

I was having this problem as well on my new stock game I was playing around with. Started from scratch to try everything out new and I noticed that I was running out of battery juice and this was causing the capsule to flip because the built in wheels stop I guess. Not sure this relates to your prob but just something new I noticed.

Can't wait for this mod to be updated as well. Thanks for all your hard work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I was having this problem as well on my new stock game I was playing around with. Started from scratch to try everything out new and I noticed that I was running out of battery juice and this was causing the capsule to flip because the built in wheels stop I guess. Not sure this relates to your prob but just something new I noticed.

Can't wait for this mod to be updated as well. Thanks for all your hard work.

It's my problem exactly, and it's because there's something off about the pod balancing in the new aerodynamics would be my guess. In DR the heat-shields are heavy, dropping the CoM making the capsule want to enter heat-shield first, that doesn't appear to be the case with the new heat-shields, so SAS has to force the capsule to stay oriented, leading to drained batteries...

I somewhat suspect a lack of testing there, perhaps they should have done some public betas...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for your continued work on this mod. I would like you to keep the inflatable heatshield because I like the shape of it and it is really the only inflatable heatshield available that doesn't look completely out of place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just out of curiosity, but what does the new version of this mod brings to the table? The new stock thermo dynamics seem pretty impressive and unforgiving.

I already had some problems with unprotected re-entry, and even things blowing up during launch due to heat =O

During re-entry I had a pretty nervous time trying to keep my engine pointed front to absorb the heat, while if almost turning the vessel would quickly blow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just out of curiosity, but what does the new version of this mod brings to the table? The new stock thermo dynamics seem pretty impressive and unforgiving.

I already had some problems with unprotected re-entry, and even things blowing up during launch due to heat =O

During re-entry I had a pretty nervous time trying to keep my engine pointed front to absorb the heat, while if almost turning the vessel would quickly blow.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/54954-0-90-Deadly-Reentry-v6-5-3-Beta-Mar-6-2015?p=1870310&viewfull=1#post1870310

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just out of curiosity, but what does the new version of this mod brings to the table? The new stock thermo dynamics seem pretty impressive and unforgiving.

I already had some problems with unprotected re-entry, and even things blowing up during launch due to heat =O

During re-entry I had a pretty nervous time trying to keep my engine pointed front to absorb the heat, while if almost turning the vessel would quickly blow.

Geforce damage and a much tougher reentry I hope. I don't think Squad did a good job implementing, especially because this mod has been around for a while and a lot could have been learned from it imo. Also if you don't think you'll need this mod, don't get it.

Thanks to those that give us players the oportunity to mod this game into the game we envisioned when we founded this project years ago, in this case starwaster!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.