[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[Starwaster]

@kcs123 @Nakedchef

To add on to this discussion, all spaceplane / shuttle type parts are configured to mimic the behavior of NASA's space shuttle tiles as closely as possible with regards to thermal properties, so the skin has less thermal mass instead of more, like the stock spaceplane parts. (the stock solution to not having ablative shielding on those parts is to just increase their heat tolerance). Also, you want a lower starting reentry angle, meaning a higher apoapsis than if you were protected with ablative shielding.

[Nakedchef]

6 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

@kcs123 @Nakedchef

To add on to this discussion, all spaceplane / shuttle type parts are configured to mimic the behavior of NASA's space shuttle tiles as closely as possible with regards to thermal properties, so the skin has less thermal mass instead of more, like the stock spaceplane parts. (the stock solution to not having ablative shielding on those parts is to just increase their heat tolerance). Also, you want a lower starting reentry angle, meaning a higher apoapsis than if you were protected with ablative shielding.

Why I posted it in the first place was that I found it a bit funny that the cockpit melted instantaneously and the crew cabin acted as a perfect heatshield.

[kcs123]

In KSP 1.1.2. I have to re-learn proper re-entry procedure, partly because I tried to create spaceplane with new B9 Mk2 Cockpit. That have less weight, but also less heat tolerance than stock Mk2 Cockpits. Funny part of story is that in one of test flights, I was careless and put craft in uncontrolable spin.

Instead of destroying craft, that was actualy helped with heating, as all parts were more evenly heated, and second, more drag was created that way, so plane was slowed down more quickly. I have recovered craft from uncontrolable spin at 10 km and around 1 mach speed. I would not recommend that for ordinary re-entry procedure, though

Craft designs that followed up those events have large AoA capabilites before stall, because of that. Helped a lot in re-entry, some of designs were able to sustain 60 degree of AoA down to 50 km and 20-25 AoA down to 20 km. That helped a lot to slow down plane even with similar Pe as I used in previous KSP releases.

[Starwaster]

3 hours ago, Nakedchef said:

Why I posted it in the first place was that I found it a bit funny that the cockpit melted instantaneously and the crew cabin acted as a perfect heatshield.

If you're referring to the part that I think you are, the exposed flat section would act as a blunt body and the reentry shockwave would be detached. The broader the cross section, the further back the shockwave is pushed. A streamlined part like the Mk2 cockpit would have an attached shock  and higher temperatures.

2 hours ago, kcs123 said:

In KSP 1.1.2. I have to re-learn proper re-entry procedure, partly because I tried to create spaceplane with new B9 Mk2 Cockpit. That have less weight, but also less heat tolerance than stock Mk2 Cockpits. Funny part of story is that in one of test flights, I was careless and put craft in uncontrolable spin.

I just realized that I shouldn't have said 'all' spaceplane parts. No doubt some recent parts packs are missing. I don't think B9 parts are handled at all and I don't know how they are being handled by their maintainer(s).

[yaume]

On 6/30/2016 at 9:02 PM, Starwaster said:

It sounds like the heat shield is not properly configured but I need more information here. 

Like what version of KSP and Deadly Reentry.  

If you can put your ModuleManager.ConfigCache up for download (Dropbox is a good site for that) and post the link and tell me what the name or title of the shield is, that might help me figure out what's going wrong. 

Thanks for your reply

Here's the dropbox link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/aqogd3ho80gk4ze/ModuleManager.ConfigCache?dl=0

I tried with the 0.625 Heatshield and the 1.25 with my small probe. I just tried the 2m with the mk1 pod and still, unable to re-enter

How do you configure the heatshields?

[Sol Invictus]

Have I understood correctly that because of this bug Deadly Reentry is incompatible with Kerbal Inventory System 1.2.12, at least until Deadly Reentry gets an update?

[Starwaster]

5 hours ago, yaume said:

Thanks for your reply

Here's the dropbox link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/aqogd3ho80gk4ze/ModuleManager.ConfigCache?dl=0

I tried with the 0.625 Heatshield and the 1.25 with my small probe. I just tried the 2m with the mk1 pod and still, unable to re-enter

How do you configure the heatshields?

I'll look at it later this evening. The configuration I refer to is for mods/modders and I don't expect players to go editing the shields to configure them

4 hours ago, Sol Invictus said:

Have I understood correctly that because of this bug Deadly Reentry is incompatible with Kerbal Inventory System 1.2.12, at least until Deadly Reentry gets an update?

The only incompatibility issue I know of surfaced when KIS was updated to 1.2.10 and I make no promises that any future DRE update will restore compatibility.

[NathanKell]

On 6/30/2016 at 2:23 PM, yaume said:

Hi,

I'm using deadly reentry with RO and I can't get my small probe to reenter.

I'm in orbit, with a perigee and apogee of ~170km each. My probe consists of the able avionics package, the mk16 parachute on top and the 1.5m heatshield on the bottom and that's it. To re-enter, I decrease my perigee to 90km (I tried -400k, 60k, 70k, ..., 100k), but the 113 units of ablator get consumed before I reach 65km and I explode.

There must be something wrong, right ?

Should I decrease the heat multiplier? If yes, were to find it? I'm on a Mac so key binding might differ

Thanks

Sounds like your perigee is too high. Try something like -100 for your perigee. -400 will have too high peak heating, but >40km will probably leave you in the upper atmosphere too long soaking up heat without slowing down much. Safe range is probably -150 to 40km for perigee there, and 40km is pushing it.

[Starwaster]

4 hours ago, NathanKell said:

Sounds like your perigee is too high. Try something like -100 for your perigee. -400 will have too high peak heating, but >40km will probably leave you in the upper atmosphere too long soaking up heat without slowing down much. Safe range is probably -150 to 40km for perigee there, and 40km is pushing it.

You sure about that? The craft he's describing is only 0.289t with a 1.5m shield so it's got decent drag. A 60km perigee should have got him down ok with about half of his shield left....

[Sol Invictus]

8 hours ago, Starwaster said:

The only incompatibility issue I know of surfaced when KIS was updated to 1.2.10 and I make no promises that any future DRE update will restore compatibility.

I'm asking because of this message from IgorZ, maintainer of KIS/KAS:

Quote

Issue with DR is not permanent. It only happens right after the new KIS version and before new version of DR. It happens due to this game's bug. When Squad team fix it the KIS/DR problem will go away.

Which would suggest, for whatever reason, that this bug will persist until Deadly Reentry gets an update.

Edited July 3, 2016 by Sol Invictus

[yaume]

8 hours ago, NathanKell said:

Sounds like your perigee is too high. Try something like -100 for your perigee. -400 will have too high peak heating, but >40km will probably leave you in the upper atmosphere too long soaking up heat without slowing down much. Safe range is probably -150 to 40km for perigee there, and 40km is pushing it.

That's what I figured as well, but then the heat shield explodes because of overheating before half the ablator has been consumed. Tried with a perigee of 0 as well, same happens

May the problem actually come from FAR ?

I forgot to mention, I run KSP 1.1.2 with DR 7.4.5.0

 

[yaume]

Are these settings right?

Radiation Factor: 1

Conduction Factor: 120

Convection Factor: 7

Generation Factor: 0.025

Edited July 3, 2016 by yaume

[Starwaster]

1 hour ago, yaume said:

Are these settings right?

Radiation Factor: 1

Conduction Factor: 120

Convection Factor: 7

Generation Factor: 0.025

 

RO uses a convection factor (machConvectionFactor) of 1.72  so 7 would mean that you're getting about 4x more convection heating. Where did you get that number? Are you actually seeing that in the game in the thermal physics section?

I did consider this possibility btw which is one of the reasons I asked for your MM cache. On initial inspection it looked normal, but after you posted those values, I look at it again and I realize that it has two PHYSICSGLOBALS sections. One with the expected RO values and the second set with the stock values.

Both config nodes seem to have the same URL. Did you manually edit your physics.cfg file at any point? Maybe pasting anything in? Because I don't otherwise see how this is possible. (manual editing of that file really shouldn't be done except in the case of someone who isn't running any mods that would patch in new values)

[yaume]

4 hours ago, Starwaster said:

RO uses a convection factor (machConvectionFactor) of 1.72  so 7 would mean that you're getting about 4x more convection heating. Where did you get that number? Are you actually seeing that in the game in the thermal physics section?

I did consider this possibility btw which is one of the reasons I asked for your MM cache. On initial inspection it looked normal, but after you posted those values, I look at it again and I realize that it has two PHYSICSGLOBALS sections. One with the expected RO values and the second set with the stock values.

Both config nodes seem to have the same URL. Did you manually edit your physics.cfg file at any point? Maybe pasting anything in? Because I don't otherwise see how this is possible. (manual editing of that file really shouldn't be done except in the case of someone who isn't running any mods that would patch in new values)

Yes these are values from the thermal physics section (pressing F12 in game).

I edited some config files like the stock settings.cfg to draw 5 conic patches, maybe some config files from RO, but I'm sure I didn't touch this one

So how do I fix that? Just by deleting this duplicated section? Should I do a clean re-install?

Again, thanks for the time you spend helping me. I really appreciate it. I can't do much if I can't re-enter!

[Starwaster]

4 hours ago, yaume said:

Yes these are values from the thermal physics section (pressing F12 in game).

I edited some config files like the stock settings.cfg to draw 5 conic patches, maybe some config files from RO, but I'm sure I didn't touch this one

So how do I fix that? Just by deleting this duplicated section? Should I do a clean re-install?

Again, thanks for the time you spend helping me. I really appreciate it. I can't do much if I can't re-enter!

Without knowing how it got like this, I'd say a clean reinstall would be safest.

[NathanKell]

Yep, that's messed up...

[crapstar]

Apologies if I missed this in previous posts but is the current version compatible with 1.1.3? Thanks.

[Sol Invictus]

On 3.07.2016 at 0:38 AM, Starwaster said:

The only incompatibility issue I know of surfaced when KIS was updated to 1.2.10 and I make no promises that any future DRE update will restore compatibility.

However here it says that incompatibility is caused by Deadly Reentry since version 7.4.2.

[Starwaster]

1 hour ago, Sol Invictus said:

However here it says that incompatibility is caused by Deadly Reentry since version 7.4.2.

I haven't heard of Deadly Reentry causing duplicate Kerbals when used with KIS and it definitely did not do so in my DRE / KIS test environment. (DRE 7.4.2 - 7.4.5 inclusive and KIS 1.2.9)

If you are going to post about KIS issues in this thread then from now on it needs to be about issues that you personally experience and can provide valid repro steps for backed up by your output_log.txt (from either KSP_Data or KSP_x64_Data depending on if 32 or 64 bit) or player.log if on Linux or Mac and you may also be asked for ModuleManager.ConfigCache

I've wasted too much of my time chasing down KIS issues that people keep trying to lay at DRE's doorstep. I'm happy to fix verifiable issues caused by DRE but not when they're actually caused by KIS updates. 

Edited July 5, 2016 by Starwaster

[Starwaster]

Deadly Reentry v7.4.6

• Compiled for KSP 1.1.3

https://github.com/Starwaster/DeadlyReentry/releases/tag/v7.4.6

[CoriW]

Just have one question before installing, is it possible to disable DRE handling of G-Force? I'm currently using KeepFit and would like to have it handle G-Force while DRE handles the other aspects of reentry.

[Starwaster]

9 hours ago, CoriW said:

Just have one question before installing, is it possible to disable DRE handling of G-Force? I'm currently using KeepFit and would like to have it handle G-Force while DRE handles the other aspects of reentry.

Not explicitly but you can use the DRE menu to change the parameters for G-Force such that it isn't checked for crew members. (note g forces are handled separately for both crew and the vehicle itself. High g-forces can still damage a vehicle or destroy it)

Specifically what you want is 'Crew G Min'. Set it to some ridiculously high G value that is unlikely to ever be reached, like 1000000. (highest possible value that can be set in the interface is something like 9E+08 - it gets twitchy trying to set higher values and honestly you probably don't need them)

Edited July 6, 2016 by Starwaster

[CoriW]

6 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

Not explicitly but you can use the DR menu to change the parameters for G-Force such that it isn't checked for crew members. (note g forces are handled separately for both crew and the vehicle itself. High g-forces can still damage a vehicle or destroy it)

Specifically what you want is 'Crew G Min'. Set it to some ridiculously high G value that is unlikely to ever be reached, like 1000000. (highest possible value that can be set in the interface is something like 9E+08 - it gets twitchy trying to set higher values and honestly you probably don't need them)

Ah okay, perfect. Thanks for the timely response.

[Mars Mullo]

Hi,

Thanks for a great mod.

Just to let you know if your using CKAN it will advise to update to 7.4.6 even if your current install is KSP 1.1.2.

I got caught out by this with some other mods that updated thier mod for KSP 1.1.3. So you can end up with a mod that doesn't work in 1.1.2. I had this problem with Kerbal Alarm Clock. Now I can't revert back to a 1.1.2 version to use in 1.1.2.

I'm kind of waiting for for all my popular mods to update before running the KSP 1.1.3. 

Yes I have three installs on CKAN.

Actually your 1.1.3 version only shows in the KSP 1.1.2 compatiblity list in Ckan not the 1.1.3 list. Is the Meta correct?

 

Edited July 5, 2016 by Mars Mullo
added info

[Starwaster]

1 hour ago, Mars Mullo said:

Hi,

Thanks for a great mod.

Just to let you know if your using CKAN it will advise to update to 7.4.6 even if your current install is KSP 1.1.2.

I got caught out by this with some other mods that updated thier mod for KSP 1.1.3. So you can end up with a mod that doesn't work in 1.1.2. I had this problem with Kerbal Alarm Clock. Now I can't revert back to a 1.1.2 version to use in 1.1.2.

I'm kind of waiting for for all my popular mods to update before running the KSP 1.1.3. 

Yes I have three installs on CKAN.

Actually your 1.1.3 version only shows in the KSP 1.1.2 compatiblity list in Ckan not the 1.1.3 list. Is the Meta correct?

 

I actually have no control over what happens with CKAN.... I think. Actually there might be a versioning file somewhere that I forgot to update. I forget what CKAN actually looks at

Let me check some things out.